444 Marlin question

[ncloader88]

Any problem with using once-fired Hornady ftx brass for loading cast bullets? I heard somewhere that the length of the ftx brass was a little shorter in the 444 to allow it to cycle.  The Lee 310grain has dual crimp groves, so I was hoping it wouldn't be a problem to get the oal that I wanted.

[cwlongshot]

Any problem with using once-fired Hornady ftx brass for loading cast bullets? I heard somewhere that the length of the ftx brass was a little shorter in the 444 to allow it to cycle.  The Lee 310grain has dual crimp groves, so I was hoping it wouldn't be a problem to get the oal that I wanted.

I would load up a couple dummies and try to cycle them thru the action.  If they work try them, just keep in mind changing OAL changes inturnal volume and this chnges pressures. Go easy, stary lo and work up. These cases will probably work just fine for you.

If it where me, I would simply trade them off to someone who loads FTX bullets.

Good luck,
 CW

[BBF]

The OP has a 444 barrel. I presume it is for aHandi . There is no cycling thru the action in the common understanding of the word and crimping isn't necessary in a single shot anyway so the OAL can be set as required for the action to close.

[cwlongshot]

The OP has a 444 barrel. I presume it is for aHandi . There is no cycling thru the action in the common understanding of the word and crimping isn't necessary in a single shot anyway so the OAL can be set as required for the action to close.

I agree.

But I was responding to NCloader88's comment. (I quoted so all know I was responding to him. Same as I have here responding to you.) In it he mentioned "cycling". This meant to me HIS might not be a SS rifle.

CW

[ncloader88]

Mine is an handi.  Just mentioned the cycling issue to explain why the hornady factory loaded brass is shortened.  Sorry for any confusion    I had forgotten that I would not need to crimp the case in a single shot, I guess that means I should be OK

[BAGTIC]

I doubt that a case full of Trail Boss (not that starting 70% load) to a heavy cast bullet base will fail to do the job. You can drive 'em faster but they are likely to go all the way through as I suggested and anything the other side of the animal is wasted.

Perhaps but if the bullet stops inside it did not deposit the maximum amount of energy possible and did not create the maximum exit for blood or entrance for air. The higher velocity bullet had more to start with so it could deposit only 90% of its energy and 'waste' 10 % on the otherside while still depositing more energy and doing more damage than a lesser power bullet that stopped inside.
 

[twoshooter]

I am using both shorties (Hornady) and the normal Rem's. The OAL stays the same. The only difference is that the two crimp groves are outside the case and if you  put lube in those grooves they can pick up dust and dirt in a pocket etc. They shoot the same, no problem. If you have problems with shorties let me know, I might trade

[BBF]

I doubt that a case full of Trail Boss (not that starting 70% load) to a heavy cast bullet base will fail to do the job. You can drive 'em faster but they are likely to go all the way through as I suggested and anything the other side of the animal is wasted.

Perhaps but if the bullet stops inside it did not deposit the maximum amount of energy possible and did not create the maximum exit for blood or entrance for air. The higher velocity bullet had more to start with so it could deposit only 90% of its energy and 'waste' 10 % on the otherside while still depositing more energy and doing more damage than a lesser power bullet that stopped inside.

 Not so fast here please.
Although the cast bullet will not expand( hard cast) the damage done by that type of bullet will depend on two things.
 
1. The size of the meplat and caliber.
2.  The impact velocity.
 
The same bullet will cause more tissue damage if it strikes at a higher velocity than the slower one.

[gcrank1]

And a (for example) .30 cal bullet that expands to .40 is better than a .429 that didnt have to expand at all? Ive shot 'high speed needles' (perforation does occur) and 'slow speed bricks (that seem to do the job well out of proportion to their paper ballistics) thwacked steel (indicator of inertia; ie, 'the energy', a controversial effect on game, at best) and autopsied my game taken. Really, if you put the bullet where the critter 'lives' you made meat. Ive just come to firmly believe that I no longer need to see how small a caliber I can take game with and prefer to ere on the 'big' side. Im in good company with a lot of PH's on that and comfortable with my conclusions. Im also comfortable with everybody doing what works for them and just throw out my opinion for consideration; its worth what you paid for it  .

[BBF]

The .429 started at that size at the point of impact, not some distance past it. A .429 cal bullet will also make a bigger hole than .429 unless it has very little speed. At very little speed a 30 cal bullet may not expand to 40 cal.

[gcrank1]

Thanx for that succinct affirmation of what I was trying to say  .

[BBF]

You are more than welcome.

[geezer56]

The 444 is a game killer with cast.  I used one to take a big hog last year.  I was using the lee 310 grainer, loaded over a slightly compressed load of H 335.  Not quite max, but getting close.  I shot the hog through a blackberry thicket, hitting it just behind the crease of the shoulder.  It broke 3 ribs on the entry side, 5 on the exit side, with an exit hole the size of my fist.   The heart was shredded, both lungs exploded, pig DRT.  This was from a Handi rifle with the 1 in 20 twist.  Bullet (or Boolit) was cast out of wheelweights, 40% stick on, 60% clip on, with a Hornady gas check.  It is also a load of fun with cast pistol bullets in the 240-250 grain weights, plain base, with Unique or one of the dots powders.  It's like the 45-70, mild to wild in the same package.  Bullets are comercially available more cheaply for the 44 cal though.  I've used the gummi bear hornady's to shoot 2 deer, not impressed with those at all.  Too much jellied meat, animals are no deader than the cast bullets render them.  The flex tips are perhaps a bit fragile.

[ncloader88]

geezer, I have heard that the ftx has a tendency to over expand and separate from the jacket at 444 velocities.  Bought a couple boxes of it because I found a good deal and promptly pulled the bullets and loaded them with the lee 310s You would think that Hornady would have addressed the over expansion issue of a bullet that was clearly developed to be used in the 444

[BBF]

If you are far enough away from your target the flextips would be OK being they were designed to add range to those calibers.