Author Topic: elk cartrage for 14" contender (Read 2252 times)

carlsflh · « **on:** October 26, 2012, 02:20:11 PM »

looking at getting a barrel for elk hunting with my contender a have a 14" 41mag and 14" 30-30 i know if i limit my shots to under 60 yards the 41 will bring home the meat i'm looking for something that i could use out to 125-150 yards when hunting clearcuts i don't know if the 30-30 is enough to do this[with the proper bullet] i've only shot it a few times using factory ammo

Ranger99 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 26, 2012, 02:24:41 PM »

can't say about an elk.
my formerly super14
30/30 has enough juice to
take pork and deer at 110 + -
i'm sure an elk would be about
bullet placement like everything else.
likely some bob milek articles somewhere
can set you up.

pab1 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 26, 2012, 02:32:50 PM »

375JDJ or .45-70 would be my picks.

Ranch13 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2012, 04:28:14 PM »

If you could get your 30-30 barrel to shoot 180-200 gr bullets it'ld probably do fine. Otherwise you might want to look at a 35 remington barrel.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #4 on:** October 26, 2012, 05:30:33 PM »

30-30 with 150 to 170 grain bullets would be my choice. I would be weary of the 125 grain bullets not making it out the other side of the elk.
Shot placement is going to matter.
If you hit it with a 375H&H in the hoof it will not matter, Practice with your 30-30 to those ranges and see if you can make hits to the ranges you are thinking. If you can... Great but picking a larger bore or slower bullet may not help you make longer shots. The faster the bullet the smaller the bullet will drop. The slower the bullet the more it will drop, and cause you problems in the field with longer ranges.
Good luck.

carlsflh · « **Reply #5 on:** October 26, 2012, 06:16:04 PM »

thanks for the replys i'll have to see if i can find a bullet/powder combo useing180-200 grain bullets that is accurate out of the 30-30 otherwise 35rem barrels are fairly common at the gun shows and gun shops in my area i got till next year to get ready [still healing from shoulder surgury] i'm going to go up with a friend to his brothers elk camp in a couple of weeks to get a idea of the terain and how big the clearcuts are in the area that i'll be hunting next year

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** October 27, 2012, 03:27:22 AM »

375 JDJ would be my choice by a large margin. Besides, you know you want to get another barrel!!

Ladobe · « **Reply #7 on:** October 27, 2012, 03:46:35 AM »

As suggested in factory barrels the 35 Rem & 45-70 will get it done to your stated ranges. IMO better than a 30-30 10 twist shooting even heavy bullets. A 30 Bower Alaskan (from the 6 grove 30 Herrett, not the counterpart 30-30) defiantly ups the ante in 30 caliber even with the 14 twist, a little less so a 30-30AI or 309JDJ as well. But at 2, 3 or even 4 times those ranges that can be fairly common here in the west the 375JDJ is my hands down choice in a 14"/15" for elk. Not as decisive but also a 338JDJ#2, 358JDJ or maybe a 358 Super Bower for longer ranges. An old friend took a 5X5 bull at about 525-550 a dozen years ago or so with his 338JDJ#2 14". Took two solid hits to anchor it though.

carlsflh · « **Reply #8 on:** October 27, 2012, 05:28:45 AM »

ladobe you brought up a few good points i've always wanted a ssk barrel in one of the jdj chamberings ithink i'm going to keep my eye open for a afordable jdj i've heard alot good things about the 338jdj#2 a buddys dad had one that he used on just about every big game critter we have here in wa.state wished he still had it so i could try it. also whats a fair price for a used barrel in one of the jdj chamberings

jhalcott · « **Reply #9 on:** October 27, 2012, 08:58:30 AM »

The 358 JDJ or the 45-70 I own would be MY choices! The 338#2 and 375JDJ are good choices also. Elk are more tenacious of life than white tails and a whole lot bigger, but accuracy is more important with them. There is a spot on an Elk that is above the heart and behind the lungs,hit it and the Elk is NOT mortally wounded! Practice with what ever you choose so you can hit a grapefruit at 100 yards. Better yet get an archery Elk target,the big picture kind, and practice shooting it at various ranges from different positions!

Ranch13 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2012, 10:03:06 AM »

A closer look at 14 in contender data shows the 30-30 not that far off of a 20 inch carbine's ballistics, and that's a know elk killin combo, so you may want to get your chrono out and see just what you can make that 30-30 barrel do.
The 35 remington is not a cartridge for the meek handed, I can only imagine what a brute that contender would turn into with the jdj's.
Bullet placement always trumps the number of tears running out your eyes when you yank the trigger...

Ladobe · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2012, 01:33:24 PM »

carlsflh,
Prices can vary widely for used JDJ barrels. New they can run to around $700 from SSK depending on embellishments. My last 4 JDJ's all sold new at the top end of new prices because they had all the embellishments. So because of what SSK barrels cost new, even on the lower end used they would be more than new factory barrels most likely. Some might give theirs away for less though. Like those folks who bought them, shot a round or three and resold them rather than learning how to shoot them. Big ego's, small cojones.

Ranch13,
Growing up on a ranch in the 40's and 50's the old Winchester's were the do all workhorse rifles. Doesn't mean they were the best choice by any means, just what we had and learned how to use to get the job done. Thirty Guns were Rainbow Rifles, but my circa war years 94 (I still have) killed its share of mule deer, elk, bear, cougar and coyotes. As jhalcott pointed out, an elk is not a puny deer in comparison, especially when the ranges get long. But like with any kind of hunting it's shot placement more than the headstamp. Mule deer raiding livestock fodder on the ranch were often shot with 22 rimfires (and became our fodder).

The folks who have little to no experience with true handcannons also have no perception of just how manageable they really are. Those who are put out by a 44MAG Contender have reached their limit, unless they will learn how to shoot more. The 375JDJ is a pussy cat as HC's go. Took a lot of years to get any of my local friends to finally shoot any of my 375's, and to a person they where shocked how wrong their perception had been. The 375JDJ has a loud bark, breathes fire and my shooting technique to roll with the HC's gives a false impression that scares many folks away from them. Closest I came to a "brute" TC handgun was my 10" 416 Rigby Encore, and it was plenty manageable for me to shoot. It spit fire a long ways down range and had a loud roar, but it wasn't all that much more than a 45-70 on a Contender frame. The pound plus additional weight of an Encore handgun helps tame recoil.

Ranch13 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2012, 02:02:17 PM »

Labode I'm well versed in elk. They are alot of things, but bullet proof isn't one of them. As to the handcannons, I'm also quite familiar with my contender super 14 in 35 rem, and know the recoil is not to be trifled with, and can only imagine what the jdj's generate.
As to the 30-30 on elk. Here's a scrubby lil bull the neighbor kid killed coming out of their hay field awhile back, with his 30-30 and the range was a bit farther than the 151 yds where most experts claim the 30-30 bullet disaapears...

Curtis · « **Reply #13 on:** October 27, 2012, 02:31:30 PM »

I have read some posts here in the past describing the unbraked 7-30 Waters recoil as a "hand full". I can't agree, but I guess everyone's perception is different.

Curtis

carlsflh · « **Reply #14 on:** October 28, 2012, 08:08:43 AM »

well i looked on ssk website and new a blue 14"barrel with a scope mount is just under 500.00 add a set of diesfor another 70. by time i get brass and bullets i 'll probly need to save 700.00 i think i'm going to start a barrel fund so i can try to get one for my next birthday in june [ i'm going to put a couple of other contender barrels that i want on the back burner] as far as recoil i've never had any problem shooting 200 rounds of hot 44 mags out of a 14"contender [used to shoot silloute in the mid 80s ]and have shot a friends freedom arms 454 casule many times. i agree that useing a good technique will help in felt recoil

barber · « **Reply #15 on:** October 29, 2012, 05:46:49 AM »

Carl, off topic, How hot can you load bullets for the 44 mag Contender? I've been trying to find out if .44 280 gr, LFNGC loaded with 21.9 grains of H110 are too hot for the .44, either in a 10 inch barrel or a 14 inch, Can't get any answers.

Ranch13 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 29, 2012, 06:18:04 AM »

barber in the 44 magnum , maximum loads are just that, doesn't matter what gun.
Check your loading manual, or go here http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

carlsflh · « **Reply #17 on:** October 29, 2012, 06:28:17 AM »

on the hodgdon website they list a max 22.0 g of 110 with a325 g gas checked lead round nose @38100cup so i would think your load of 21.9with a 280 should be safe. i would reduce it a little and work it back up to the 21.9 g always better to be safe

Couger · « **Reply #18 on:** October 29, 2012, 06:29:21 AM »

Quote from: carlsflh

well i looked on ssk website and new a blue 14"barrel with a scope mount is just under 500.00 add a set of diesfor another 70. by time i get brass and bullets i 'll probly need to save 700.00 i think i'm going to start a barrel fund so i can try to get one for my next birthday in june [ i'm going to put a couple of other contender barrels that i want on the back burner] as far as recoil i've never had any problem shooting 200 rounds of hot 44 mags out of a 14"contender [used to shoot silloute in the mid 80s ]and have shot a friends freedom arms 454 casule many times. i agree that useing a good technique will help in felt recoil

Nearly $500 for a JDJ-chambered barrel? Geeeeezzz ..... !!!!!! (that sucks!)

For elk hunting with a Super 14" Contender, if I didn't go with a .35 Remington, or .357 Herrett, wonder if I'd consider a .445 Souper? (basically a .44 "maximum" with a 1.6" case).

Of course there's also the .460 and .500S&W's, too!

jhalcott · « **Reply #19 on:** October 29, 2012, 08:54:18 AM »

Maybe that IS a high price, BUT< I have never seen a bad JDJ barrel! I guess that's why Corvettes cast more than other chevies . My .358JDJ has a VAIS BRAKE ON IT.I have ARTHRITIS AND CARPAL TUNNEL AND CAN still SHOOT IT. Others at the range have shot it and after the first shot, they often ask for more! Once they see they CAN handle it, I let them try to hit a 3" shoot&C (rested) at 100 yards. MOST do hit it. It is FAR more than a 35 Rem, which I also have and a 7-30 Waters. I would NOT buy a new barrel just for Elk hunting . I have many that I THINK will do the job!

carlsflh · « **Reply #20 on:** October 29, 2012, 09:55:12 PM »

i just realised that a 375 jdj can be gotten in a factory barrel how does a "stock" barrel compare to a ssk or other custom barrel i found a tc 15" 375jdj barrel with a muzzle tamer on it for 265.00 and it's sure tempting to grab it

bigbore442001 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 30, 2012, 01:24:50 AM »

There is another route. You can have your Super 14 in 41 magnum rechambered to 41 GNR #2 by Gary Reeder in Arizona. That round is a 445 Super mag case necked down with a short and sharp shoulder. That would step it up to a whole new level. Just food for thought .

1jonmon · « **Reply #22 on:** October 30, 2012, 08:08:44 AM »

I have an encore 7mm-08 15" and cannot see that I would need anymore than it at the ranges you listed. I reload a 140 btsp from hornady because it was cheaper to plink with. That bullet drove through 6" of wood and at least 18" of dirt behind the wood.. That was at 65 yards. Never shot an elk with it, but I wouldn't hesitate to inside of 200 yards. Especially if I were to reload with a Barnes 140gr. Lots of people shoot 30-06, 300wsm for deer but the deer are no more dead than with the .223 or .243 and a lot less messy. I personally wouldn't use a pistol much past 200yrds no matter what round it was

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #23 on:** October 30, 2012, 03:13:59 PM »

Quote from: carlsflh on October 28, 2012, 08:08:43 AM

well i looked on ssk website and new a blue 14"barrel with a scope mount is just under 500.00 add a set of diesfor another 70. by time i get brass and bullets i 'll probly need to save 700.00 i think i'm going to start a barrel fund so i can try to get one for my next birthday in june [ i'm going to put a couple of other contender barrels that i want on the back burner] as far as recoil i've never had any problem shooting 200 rounds of hot 44 mags out of a 14"contender [used to shoot silloute in the mid 80s ]and have shot a friends freedom arms 454 casule many times. i agree that useing a good technique will help in felt recoil

My suggestion is to Spend half that on reloading supplies and build up a 30-30 loadusing a 170 or 180 grain round nose bullet and practicing shooting off hand to prone and at ranges out to 200 yards and closer with the Elk sized targets. I say practice different positions as I have yet to come across a shooting bench in the woods, fields, or mountain while hunting. Or get good with the walking stick support or bipod. The key is to see an elk and be able to hit it. A larger hole in the ground may not be helpful. Practice Practice Practice!
The 35 Rem and the 30-30 are too close at 100 yards ballistlically to make a difference that elk would know. I mean we are talking the differnce between a 358 Win and a 308 Win. One will have a heavier wider bullet the other will have a slightly smaller diameter and a lighter bullet, but here is the key it will be going faster and over distance will drop less. making guesses of hold over easier for longer shots. Also the 30 cal bullet will be longer and have a better chance of holing both sides. If anything I would spend on a different scope that may allow you to see farther and make a cleaner shot.
But this post may not be about a caliber that will do it but a justification to spend on a new toy. I still think if you have a better barrel for the job at hand. Buy some other stuff you may need for Elk hunting. New boots, new wool bibs, Filson Coat.
Or other gear like a Range finder, GPS, Dead Sled, Binoculars, or Back Pack Frame with small pack.
Of course I am not one to tell you not to invest in a bigger better caliber. My Elk Rifle is a 338 Win Mag and the back up gun is a 375 H&H when I know my two 308 Wins would do the job.
Good luck on the hunt and I like my Jerkey with a little spice please.

carlsflh · « **Reply #24 on:** October 30, 2012, 05:07:44 PM »

thanks you guys have given me a lot of information to think over. i know i'm going to start a elk fund to finance whatever route i take. i've always wanted a jdj barrel. bigbore that 41gnr#2 looks real interesting and might have to go on the want list i've been in love with the 41 mag since i got my 1st one some 30 years ago. i'm deffently going to see if i can get the 30-30 barrel to shoot 170-180g bullets[since i already own it and have everything to load the 30-30] i got round 9 months to decide what i'm going to use next season when i start practicing i'll go and shoot in the type of areas i'm going to hunt and in the rain as fall here in washingiton state is usually very rainy and foggy

Plagioclase · « **Reply #25 on:** November 02, 2012, 12:06:23 PM »

If it were me, I'd run a 35 Rem using Speer 220 FP over H 4895 at 1950 ft/sec. The Contender can handle a bit more pressure than the typical 35 Rem loads found in most manuals. Some of the early silhouette guys shot 35 Rem's with slightly warmer loads than published. I have pressure tested loads that stay under 40k psi and acheive 1950 with ther 220's and 2200 with 180's. Recoil is a bit stout.

I also owned a 358 JDJ for a while and found the recoil a bit more than the 35 rem. You could coax 1-200 ft/sec more from the JDJ but I think 1950 with a 220 Speer would be fine. In fact, I took my 35 rem so loaded with me this year but didn't get the opportunity.