You all want HIM for president?

[ChungDoQuan]

I noticed this board was conveniently avoiding this little news tidbit. I'm just wondering how y'all justify the kindly Mitt making profits sending even more American jobs to China.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/168477/romneys-every-town-counts-tour-skips-towns-battered-bain-capitalism

And the ridiculous FoxLies runs NOTHING on the fact that Rmoney's Bain Capital is outsourcing US jobs to China, but they're glad to report Jesse Jackson's arrest!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/24/rev-jesse-jackson-arrested-in-protests-with-workers-losing-jobs-at-freeport/

All I can say, is if you manage to elect this soulless non-Christian, y'all deserve him.

Man you hate him or what ? First you seem to like Obama , note he helped GM more if so then you defend your man since alot of the bail out money went to GM and they have built more GM factories in China , they have opened more dealerships in China AND SENT R&D TO CHINA , that sucking sound you hear is not jobs going to China from Romney but Obama's actions . Keep in mind Romney was a business man making a profit in the world he is forced to work in Obama is president of a country he should be protecting jobs in not financing companies moving to China.
 
Second really you think anything the rev JJ is assoicated with is creditable , get real when he shows up you know its a dog and pony show ................

Missed the whole point of everything on this thread, didn't you? I honestly can not connect anything in that post to any of the facts I posted.

[Bob Riebe]

If that coal plant is 70 years old, it needs to be replaced. Do you have any respiratory problems? Know people who do? Do you know people around you who have died from lung disease, like cancer or COPD? Ask the people who live near you if they've ever had to paint their car or their house because of the damage from the coal smoke. Now ask them if they think the coal burners need to make more money by doing business the every-man-for-himself way.

Ask what they will do when their electricity bill triples if the coal plant goes away- oh wait, they will get the government to pay for it-- brilliant!

[ChungDoQuan]

If that coal plant is 70 years old, it needs to be replaced. Do you have any respiratory problems? Know people who do? Do you know people around you who have died from lung disease, like cancer or COPD? Ask the people who live near you if they've ever had to paint their car or their house because of the damage from the coal smoke. Now ask them if they think the coal burners need to make more money by doing business the every-man-for-himself way.

Ask what they will do when their electricity bill triples if the coal plant goes away- oh wait, they will get the government to pay for it-- brilliant!

It won't triple. Somewhere on the grid there is another supplier that will fill the void.

[SHOOTALL]

I noticed this board was conveniently avoiding this little news tidbit. I'm just wondering how y'all justify the kindly Mitt making profits sending even more American jobs to China.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/168477/romneys-every-town-counts-tour-skips-towns-battered-bain-capitalism

And the ridiculous FoxLies runs NOTHING on the fact that Rmoney's Bain Capital is outsourcing US jobs to China, but they're glad to report Jesse Jackson's arrest!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/24/rev-jesse-jackson-arrested-in-protests-with-workers-losing-jobs-at-freeport/

All I can say, is if you manage to elect this soulless non-Christian, y'all deserve him.

Man you hate him or what ? First you seem to like Obama , note he helped GM more if so then you defend your man since alot of the bail out money went to GM and they have built more GM factories in China , they have opened more dealerships in China AND SENT R&D TO CHINA , that sucking sound you hear is not jobs going to China from Romney but Obama's actions . Keep in mind Romney was a business man making a profit in the world he is forced to work in Obama is president of a country he should be protecting jobs in not financing companies moving to China.
 
Second really you think anything the rev JJ is assoicated with is creditable , get real when he shows up you know its a dog and pony show ................

Missed the whole point of everything on this thread, didn't you?

nope ! didn't read anypost but your's , have you changed your point of view ?

[SHOOTALL]

If that coal plant is 70 years old, it needs to be replaced. Do you have any respiratory problems? Know people who do? Do you know people around you who have died from lung disease, like cancer or COPD? Ask the people who live near you if they've ever had to paint their car or their house because of the damage from the coal smoke. Now ask them if they think the coal burners need to make more money by doing business the every-man-for-himself way.

Ask what they will do when their electricity bill triples if the coal plant goes away- oh wait, they will get the government to pay for it-- brilliant!

It won't triple. Somewhere on the grid there is another supplier that will fill the void.

in a system that is already not able to furnish the demand wheeling power does not decrease the cost of new production plants or the time involved with getting permits approved

[ChungDoQuan]

If you pretend coal doesn't exist, I'll pretend Chevron didn't buy the company with the patents for cheap batteries that could give electric cars a 150-200 mile range, and then refuse to make them or license the patents.

[SHOOTALL]

You know there are stories about super battries and carburators etc. But little proof. consider the battry if it existed it could be used in subs ( yes diesel elec subs are making a comeback)and make who ever owned the pat. tons of money and so far that ain't happened why ?
carbs and millage. In reality it takes so many BTU's to do a job you might peake it some but to move so much weight it will require so much energy which will require so much fuel to get the BTU's nessary . Some fuel hols more BTU's than other like diesel over gasoline in its un altered state.

[arky65]

Have not read the whole thread so this may have been brought up.

Obama's  Job's czar the head of GE , in 2009 shut down a whole plant and moved it and the jobs to China. How bout that CDQ. Any explanation for that. Kinda the pot calling the kettle black ain't it. I could go on but I know you will ignore.

Watch out for the cool-aide it will poison  your mind.

[ChungDoQuan]

Have not read the whole thread so this may have been brought up.

Obama's  Job's czar the head of GE , in 2009 shut down a whole plant and moved it and the jobs to China. How bout that CDQ. Any explanation for that. Kinda the pot calling the kettle black ain't it. I could go on but I know you will ignore.

Watch out for the cool-aide it will poison  your mind.

Ummm. Proof? Sources?

[BUGEYE]

Have not read the whole thread so this may have been brought up.

Obama's  Job's czar the head of GE , in 2009 shut down a whole plant and moved it and the jobs to China. How bout that CDQ. Any explanation for that. Kinda the pot calling the kettle black ain't it. I could go on but I know you will ignore.

Watch out for the cool-aide it will poison  your mind.

Ummm. Proof? Sources?

here you go... http://www.electriciantalk.com/f17/ge-moves-factory-china-26791/

[ChungDoQuan]

You know there are stories about super battries and carburators etc. But little proof. consider the battry if it existed it could be used in subs ( yes diesel elec subs are making a comeback)and make who ever owned the pat. tons of money and so far that ain't happened why ?
carbs and millage. In reality it takes so many BTU's to do a job you might peake it some but to move so much weight it will require so much energy which will require so much fuel to get the BTU's nessary . Some fuel hols more BTU's than other like diesel over gasoline in its un altered state.

In 1994 GM produced the first plug-in electric car, the EV-1, which used a version of NiMH battery invented by a man named Ovshinsky, who created the company Ovonics. (Do a search.) Those cars went up to 200 miles on a single charge. The only NiMH batteries you can buy today are "C" cells and smaller, and only single cells, not car sized batteries, not even 6 or 12 volt. That is the restriction Chevron/Texaco puts on that patent. The proof is there if you just do a search and look for it. All my life I have been told that it's not possible to put a generator in a car with enough capacity to drive an electric motor and propel the car. All my life that is exactly the way diesel locomotives have been operated--- they're really electric trains with diesel generators. Now there is the Chevy Volt, that operates the same way. Don't BELIEVE--- verify!

[BUGEYE]

If you run off the road and hit a tree in your EV, you have a 1175 pound battering ram behind you that'll flatten you like a pancake.

back on topic.  of the two, yes I want him for prez.

[nw_hunter]

What dumycrats fail to comprehend is that Corporations don't send jobs over seas. Our Government does with the high corporate taxes and the cost bearing regulations they continually impose on our businesses. In order to compete on the Global market corporations need to send jobs overseas or go under. Unfortunately dumycrats all have tunnel vision. They increase taxes and add stifling regulations and they don't have a clue about the impact to the big picture.

Obama's cash award to GM (Government Motors) on behalf of the Auto Unions was used to build assembly plants in China. The taxpayers of this Country will never recover billions of dollars that was gifted to GM.

Don't you think cost of labor has anything to do with moving these companies off shore?
Could it be that instead of paying 12.00 per hr average, to paying 3.00 per hr without worrying about a union or health and retirement benefits has anything to do with it?I think what most people fail to see is big Corpo "IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.They decide who we have as choices to vote for, and let us pick the CEO's from their pool!"Some choice" I think both Democrats (dummycrats) and Republicans (pacadumbs) or what ever cute lil name we want to call these people, know exactly what the big picture is! None of them give a hoot about this country or any other country.They only care about their own welfare, and others like them. Do you think Walmart cares about closing down small businesses in communities they move into?They can afford to operate at a loss long enough to shut down the competition, then raise the prices to suit themselves while paying starvation wages to employee's with none or very few benefits.
IMO! We get Corpo government with Mitt or Barrack, and big Corporations have NO homeland.
They are getting what they want regardless who is elected.

[arky65]

Thank you Bugeye I am in the middle of baking bread.
Well as I said CDQ is ignoring the truth and is posting about everything else and then some but of course ignoring the proof that his savior and his band of jesters are doing the same thing they accuse others of doing.

[gypsyman]

CDQ, in your post 126, you stated that their is a supplier somewhere on the grid that will supply electricity. Where?Who? When? Your no different than the people that live next to the oil refinery, and complain about the smell and noise, but, then climb in their cars and drive away. If you don't like the smell or noise, I suggest you move. The coal plant,oil refinery,whatever, was probably there, long before you were. Like I said in an earlier post, go back to your college buddies, sit around the campfire, and sing kum-by-ya. The rest of us have to deal with the real world. gypsyman

[ChungDoQuan]

Your real world will include wearing a respirator and carting around a portable water filter. Single plants as well as individual generators go on and off line all the time. That's why it's called "the grid."

[BUGEYE]

let's return to 40 acres and a mule.

[BBF]

let's return to 40 acres and a mule.

It may come to that and consider yourself lucky to have a mule. Be interesting to see how the Govt is going to tax you.

[Anna]

Your real world will include wearing a respirator and carting around a portable water filter. Single plants as well as individual generators go on and off line all the time. That's why it's called "the grid."

You are over reacting.  What you are taking about is called load shedding, and you have shown that you have no idea how that works.

[Dixie Dude]

I work in the natural gas industry.  1/3 of our gas now goes to generation of electricity.  It has recently replaced coal as the chief producer of electricity.  Coal costs 1/2 what natural gas costs.  So, this translates into higher power bills.  This is a shear waste of fuel as only 1/3 of energy burned actually gets to your house as useful energy. Transmission of electricity is actually very inefficient.  It is more efficient to take the gas all the way to your house (80%) useful energy, so it is best to have natural gas for heat, water heat, cooking, cloths drying, gas logs, generators, etc.   Also, other than the compressor stations to keep the gas pumping, almost all regulation and metering equipment is self sustaining and doesn't require power and wouldn't be affected by an EMP.  The compressor stations can easily be grounded as a big Faraday cage. 
 
That being said, natural gas is about $1.34 per gallon equivelant energywise as gasoline.  We need to be burning it for transportation fuel to help eliminate imported oil and is only produces about half the carbon dioxide as coal or gasoline.  Win-win.  We first have to convince utilities, cities, buses, etc, to convert which are the easiest to convert first, because of the fleet use and cost of the compressor stations spread over several vehicles. 
 
This is off subject, but Obama hasn't got an energy plan, which is the most critical of anything any president could do.
 
It affects the trade balance, as half of what we spend on imported goods is oil. 
 
It affects who our potential enemies are, not giving money to potential enemies, by cutting into their profits and underhanded giving money to finance terroism.
 
It affects our economy, with more jobs here at home drilling, building pipelines, and using OUR fuel, and spending the money HERE, it snowballs and helps everyone else.  More utility workers, more drillers, more pipeline construction which has welders, lawyers, surveyors, heavy equipment operators, inspectors, engineers, steel pipe manufacturers (almost all is made in America), valve manufacturers, flange, regulators, welded fittings, heavy equipment manufacturers.   All good paying jobs which provides money for families to have homes, cars, educations, etc.  See how it snowballs.   Most are also union jobs, which I don't understand unions supporting Obama especially in the oil and gas industries.  Just allowing drilling, pipeline construction in America could lower the unemployment 1-2% almost immediately, which can kickstart the economy. 

[ironglow]

Have not read the whole thread so this may have been brought up.

Obama's  Job's czar the head of GE , in 2009 shut down a whole plant and moved it and the jobs to China. How bout that CDQ. Any explanation for that. Kinda the pot calling the kettle black ain't it. I could go on but I know you will ignore.

Watch out for the cool-aide it will poison  your mind.

Ummm. Proof? Sources?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
       Proof? ources?  I thought that was common knowledge to even the mildly observant !
         http://duby325.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/ge-is-moving-out-of-wisconsin-guess-where-to/
 
   That talk by Obama concerning "energy independence' is just so much blather..a smoke screen..  DD e3xplained it quite succinctly:
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
     " affects our economy, with more jobs here at home drilling, building pipelines, and using OUR fuel, and spending the money HERE, it snowballs and helps everyone else.  More utility workers, more drillers, more pipeline construction which has welders, lawyers, surveyors, heavy equipment operators, inspectors, engineers, steel pipe manufacturers (almost all is made in America), valve manufacturers, flange, regulators, welded fittings, heavy equipment manufacturers.   All good paying jobs which provides money for families to have homes, cars, educations, etc.  See how it snowballs.   Most are also union jobs, which I don't understand unions supporting Obama especially in the oil and gas industries.  Just allowing drilling, pipeline construction in America could lower the unemployment 1-2% almost immediately, which can kickstart the economy. "
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
  If the prez were at all interested in "energy independence", he would approve the Keystone now , issue drilling permits now  and do all he could to keep that money here in the U.S...that much more money to develop clean energy resources.
   Instead what does this prez do?  He kicks drilling out of the gulf (while the Chinese, Russians, Venezuelans & Brazilians are drilling in the same gulf with the same rigs.
 
   Then what else does he do?  He sends 42,000,000,000 to finance Brazil's offshore drilling! 
  Does that sound at all like a fellow who has America's best interests at heart?  You can keep sipping the koolaid..but most here never touched that stuff...it's too toxic!

[Anna]

Now CDQ , you are making even him mad. Go home, eat a cookie, and call me in the morning.

[BBF]

I'd have no problem using NG for heat. When it comes to bottling this stuff up in very high pressure vessels to run my vehicles I would bow out. I'm not having a bomb strapped to my car/or truck.

[mcwoodduck]

Are you sure it was a glider that rescued Il Duce. I recall it being a Fieseler Storch a powered STOL aircraft.

BBF, I think your right. Didn't that aircraft take Mussolini to the Eagles Nest where Hitler was held up at the time ? Or that's what the History channels web site says about it .

If I remember right it was Otto Scorseni a major in the OBVER (sp.) who led the attack with air borne troops that parachuted on to the castle and by passed the Itlalian Carbinari at the base of the mountain guarding him.  They figured out a Storch could land and take off.  After the assault pilots flew in and got out as Otto and Il Duce got in and left.  Or that is what I remember, could have the plot of a WEB Griffin book mixed up with real history.

[mcwoodduck]

.
 As for Bain and Romney..alot of the corps he was said to helped have no use for him and his ilk, which were unecessary 'intermediaries' searching for companies they could easily takeover and saddle with debt. That's how Bain operated_ _as asset strippers and TARP recepients.  In an actual 'capitalist' or more pure free enterprise system...actors like Bain Capital wouldn't be allowed or have any meaning..
.
.
..TM7

Bain Capital is a managment group that buys failing companies that were mismanaged and either parts them out so other companies can buy up those products, buildings, machinery, or other equipment and use it to in their company expansion.  This is the part that the liberals never understand.  As one company dies those assests are sold off to create new products or expand markets.  Had GM failed, those plants would have been sold and other car companies would have filled them making Toyotas, Dodges, or a company like Tesla that could make an affordable electric or electric solar.  And while theose workers would no longer be GM workers they would be needed to make new higher tech products.  And maybe by saving GM we have killed and not created new jobs.  And also some of the brand names and factories would have been sold off to new owners and there still may be a Cady, Chevy, and Buick just run independantly and maybe more efficiently.  Making cars cheaper that would sell more that would need more workers. 
On the other side Bain woulod see the potential of a company and reorganize the failing company and change the managment and make it a success.  Look at staples that was going under and was saved and all the jobs it has created as a stonger company expanded. 

[ChungDoQuan]

Now CDQ , you are making even him mad. Go home, eat a cookie, and call me in the morning.

Anybody can post paranoid ravings on a blog (link in post 144), and a thread on a trade magazine discussion forum (link in post 133) is no proof at all.  Do y'all even know what facts are? Do you have a clue as to what constitutes a credible source?  I don't know why I expect more--- Money Boo Boo read a press release that said Jeep was upping it's shipments to China by 100% and decided that meant Jeep manufacturing was going to move over there.

[mcwoodduck]

If you pretend coal doesn't exist, I'll pretend Chevron didn't buy the company with the patents for cheap batteries that could give electric cars a 150-200 mile range, and then refuse to make them or license the patents.

Another falicy.  Electric cars can go really far with small amounts of energy,  The problem is the safety standards and all the heavy safety equipment that is needed to make a car safe to opperate on the public roads.  Weight = more work to move it and that will drain the battery.  Clearly a fork lift can run for long periods with a full charge but if it was hit by a car even in a mild accident the owner would be dead.  We saw basically kites with solar cells drive across the Australian outback.  But a 14 year old on a moped would have totaled them in a side swipe.
And why would Chevron spend millions on a pattent and not diversify into that market.  Cars will still need gas for a long time.  not everyone has the money to scrap their current vehicle and go ellectric.  Also they would generate changeable batteries and sell them at their and only their filling stations.  Driving 200 miles and the car only goes 175 miles, pull intoi a chevron, open a draw slide out your battery and drop in a new one with a fee.  They recharge the battery and have it ready for another electric that needs power. 
Aslo this has been a myth since the 50's.  Patents run out and then they are available for all to use. So in the 70's we should have seen thousands and thousands of electric cars intime for the oil crisis.  And my father would have purchased one of these in 1979 instead of the toyota tracell SR5.  A patent is there to protect intellectual and resources to create the technology or idea but there is a limit to the amount of time those properties can be protected. But I think they only last for 17 years.  It has been at least Twice that if not four times it since we have heard these false claims. 

[ChungDoQuan]

http://www.examiner.com/article/oil-company-ownership-of-battery-patents-threatens-electric-car-production

http://www.fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?p+690

http://www.chemeurope.com/en/encyclopedia/Nickel-metal_hydride_battery.html

[SHOOTALL]

You know there are stories about super battries and carburators etc. But little proof. consider the battry if it existed it could be used in subs ( yes diesel elec subs are making a comeback)and make who ever owned the pat. tons of money and so far that ain't happened why ?
carbs and millage. In reality it takes so many BTU's to do a job you might peake it some but to move so much weight it will require so much energy which will require so much fuel to get the BTU's nessary . Some fuel hols more BTU's than other like diesel over gasoline in its un altered state.

In 1994 GM produced the first plug-in electric car, the EV-1, which used a version of NiMH battery invented by a man named Ovshinsky, who created the company Ovonics. (Do a search.) Those cars went up to 200 miles on a single charge. The only NiMH batteries you can buy today are "C" cells and smaller, and only single cells, not car sized batteries, not even 6 or 12 volt. That is the restriction you do a serch as to safety , I have experinced the "small one exploding and can assure you I would not want to be in a vehicle with one Chevron/Texaco puts on that patent. The proof is there if you just do a search and look for it. All my life I have been told that it's not possible to put a generator in a car with enough capacity to drive an electric motor and propel the car. All my life that is exactly the way diesel locomotives have been operated--- they're really electric trains with diesel generatorsYes and they run on tracks that have restrictions on grade running a vehicle in stop and go traffic up steep grades etc will use more power , then one should consider size with a train there is room for both a diesel generator and elec. motors when you start adding weight to a car you start needing room which will add more weight. So in theroy you may be able to create a car as you noted but would it be of a size that would be cost effective ? ie carry enough people at a cost that would be acceptable ? I don't think it exist yet. Now there is the Chevy Volt, that operates the same way. Don't BELIEVE--- verify!The volt is not cost effective and you can "verify" ! BTW there are people who can only verify what OTHERS think and then there are those of us with fresh ideas we come up with not others opinion . I only need point to global warming as example many of us considered it popy cock when it started and time has proven us correct. All the experts ( and I use that term loosely) could be verifyed until hell froze over but in the end it was proven false.

[ChungDoQuan]

So now we've gone from "those batteries never existed," and, "Chevron wouldn't do that," to "those batteries are too dangerous." The NiMH battery IS cost effective--- that point was already made. The cost would be about 1/10th the cost of lithium ion cells, once you add the charge controller difference. Your ball.