Author Topic: Wolves really a threat? (Read 9392 times)

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #30 on:** November 03, 2012, 01:42:48 AM »

I’ve lived in areas that had a few Timber Wolves – same size as the gray wolf. Didn’t see many and when I did, they were very skittish. Whenever I’d find their scat, it showed their diet was deer but again, finding their scat was just blind luck.

I haven’t laid eyes on a wolf in the wild in over 20 years but I’ve heard them sing in the evenings while camped but they appear to have no interest in raiding our food supplies like those darn chipmunks do – this past September they were really making music in Northern Ontario. Decades ago, sometimes late in the afternoon, we would heard them sing while cutting firewood – the war department and kids would get a little nervous, but that was a good thing, as they stacked wood a lot faster in the pickup box.

I think Bubber’s post pretty much nailed it down relative to the threat posed to humans by the wolf - at least here in the lower 48.

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #31 on:** November 03, 2012, 01:05:13 PM »

I also believe that over the years since Europeans arrived, wolves have been killed for two reasons an two reasons only:
1- to protect livestock or game animals
2 - fear (If you don't understand it, destroy it. See something in the wilds that your pre-conceived notions have made you afraid of it, shoot it. Most killings not related to hunting are based on fear. Find a rattlesnake on property you'll never go to again, kill it because your mindset, which is only human nature, is to remove what you are afraid of. Same thing with lots of species. If you see a Black Widow or Brown Recluse spider and they are not a danger to you or near your home, leave it the heck alone. It's a psychological mindset to reach out and harm living creatures just because they exist. You can justify the death of a wolf as your means of balancing nature, but in the darkest place of your mind, you know the truth; you did it because you were afraid of it. Whether you live in Alaska or not, you kill wolves for one of the two stated reasons.)

Drilling Man · « **Reply #32 on:** November 03, 2012, 03:24:18 PM »

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on November 03, 2012, 01:05:13 PM

I also believe that over the years since Europeans arrived, wolves have been killed for two reasons an two reasons only:
1- to protect livestock or game animals
2 - fear (If you don't understand it, destroy it. See something in the wilds that your pre-conceived notions have made you afraid of it, shoot it. Most killings not related to hunting are based on fear. Find a rattlesnake on property you'll never go to again, kill it because your mindset, which is only human nature, is to remove what you are afraid of. Same thing with lots of species. If you see a Black Widow or Brown Recluse spider and they are not a danger to you or near your home, leave it the heck alone. It's a psychological mindset to reach out and harm living creatures just because they exist. You can justify the death of a wolf as your means of balancing nature, but in the darkest place of your mind, you know the truth; you did it because you were afraid of it. Whether you live in Alaska or not, you kill wolves for one of the two stated reasons.)

You really have no idea what you are talking about, when it comes to me. I have NO fear of wolves, but i have seen how they act and what they do in their daily lives. I base my feelings about them from "that" 25 year long experience and nothing else.

It always amazes how someone can say things like you have, without ever having met the person they are talking about.

Try living out with them for a while, see what they are REALLY like, and i'd be betting you would have a change of heart!

DM

jcn59 · « **Reply #33 on:** November 04, 2012, 09:37:08 AM »

There was a time when we could say that no plane ever flew into the Twin Towers. Best to be prepared for the unexpected.

Lots of wolves where I live but not as many now that the deer herd is decimated. I wouldn't even consider taking my dog for a walk in the woods w/o a suitable firearm. Yes, I've seen them while in the woods, and yes, I have a picture or two.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #34 on:** November 04, 2012, 11:08:13 AM »

jcn59 - there in Wisconsin, are you talking about the Timber Wolf or the Brush Wolf? While living in Minnesota I saw a lot of Brush Wolves but seldom saw a Timber.

jcn59 · « **Reply #35 on:** November 04, 2012, 01:22:51 PM »

jlwilliams · « **Reply #36 on:** November 04, 2012, 01:49:35 PM »

Here is something to consider. A generation ago, coyote attacks on humans were almost unheard of. Any coyote attack story, if really pressed, either involved cubs, people messing with the animals, or people spinning yarns. Now coyote attack people often enough that it is almost common. It happens often in the suburbs. Coyote have learned to look to us for food. Mostly from our discarded trash, sometimes our pets, and in rare cases, the animals look to us for food in a more... direct way. They lose their fear of man, and things go down hill from there.
The point is, coyote behavior has changed as they made their comeback and learned to live closer to people. It would be incomprehendable to think that as wolves adapt to a life in more contact with man than they have had in years past, that their behavior would continue to be as it was way back when. In short, these ain't your great-granpappy's wolves. These are new wolves. Wolves who are learning that food comes from humans.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #37 on:** November 05, 2012, 08:42:32 AM »

Quote from ATILAW:
"They only eat people because they think we're seals!"

These days instead of seals it probably out to be Walrus.

GuzziJohn

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #38 on:** November 05, 2012, 11:01:59 AM »

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on November 01, 2012, 10:05:22 AM

If I was concerned with woves chomping on me, I don't think I'd live in Alaska.
More humans have been attacked by whitetail deer than wolves. Lots of cases of that on tape. I reckon it's best just to not go outside.

Explains why they have a season for deer then doesn't it.

If you don't carry a weapon with you whenever legal to do so you are inviting a situation to turn into a disaster. Be it Deer, Bears, Wolves, Tweakers, Rapists, Murderers, whatever. Why would you not want the ability to defend yourself from a distance?

1sourdough · « **Reply #39 on:** November 05, 2012, 11:26:06 PM »

Just skimming through. I'd say not a high threat at all. I've seen several & they usually trot away from you. If you have your dog along that increases the odds you may have a problem. It may happen away from you though. The bolder ones are being taken out in WI, up to 59 right now for our new season. Overall that should put a little more scurry in them when the see man in the bush.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #40 on:** November 06, 2012, 04:52:16 AM »

That's a good start - I read last summer where your wolf harvest is set at 200 wolves, with the Indians being able to claim 50% but they won't harvest (yet) - are you able to thin the pack out by 200 or will the State shut you down by 50%?

Minnesota's harvest is set at 200 (with a population of 3,000+) and as of last night they have taken 60 and the East-Central Zone was shut down last night as they took 8 of the 9 allowed there. There were 3,600 licenses issued, so I would think by the end of the week the 200 should be taken plus however many are taken via the SSS method during the year.

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #41 on:** November 06, 2012, 09:36:23 AM »

Drillingman, I was not speaking to you specifically. Don't get upset.

But looking back at your input, I noticed you never did say WHY you shoot every wolf you see. Is it because the wolf you shoot will be one less that you think might bight you? As directly as you can, please answer that. Type like this: "I shoot wolves because _____________. "

I suppose it's scarier where you live because it's dark. Nothing shameful in that. Creatures can sneak up on you easier in the dark. And I know they sometimes hide under the bed.

bilmac · « **Reply #42 on:** November 07, 2012, 11:27:47 AM »

If I still lived in Alaska "I would shoot wolves because they eat the moose that I would like to eat"

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #43 on:** November 07, 2012, 02:12:18 PM »

bilmac, you are an honest person. Thanks.

mechanic · « **Reply #44 on:** November 07, 2012, 02:14:01 PM »

Mike, are you a wildlife biologist? Just wondering.

Ben

Drilling Man · « **Reply #45 on:** November 07, 2012, 03:14:05 PM »

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on November 06, 2012, 09:36:23 AM

Drillingman, I was not speaking to you specifically. Don't get upset.

But looking back at your input, I noticed you never did say WHY you shoot every wolf you see. Is it because the wolf you shoot will be one less that you think might bight you? As directly as you can, please answer that. Type like this: "I shoot wolves because _____________. "

I suppose it's scarier where you live because it's dark. Nothing shameful in that. Creatures can sneak up on you easier in the dark. And I know they sometimes hide under the bed.

Are you saying you were excludeing me in your comments??? Sounded like i was included, to me!

How about you go out and live in the Alaskan bush, around wolves over a 25 year peroid, like "I" did, and perhaps you will see some of the things that i saw ? that way i won't have to explain it all to you...

Reading about wolves and what wolves are like, doesn't hold a candle to seeing what they are "really like" in person. You never know, you might actually learn something about wolves.

OR, i guess you can continue to take the easy pampered route, and stay at home, to repeat what you read or are told by someone who hasn't "been there, done that"...

DM

bilmac · « **Reply #46 on:** November 08, 2012, 01:41:10 AM »

Mechanic I was a wildlife biologist when I was in Alaska. Most of us aren't "tree huggers", or at least we weren't 15-20 years ago, These days the profession is becoming polluted by those with "Walt Disney" ideals.

Nearly all of the professionals working in Alaska at the time I was agreed that wolves were a major factor in surpressing their prey, mostly moose and caribou. The history was that Alaskan biologists had been controlling wolf populations for some years and the people of Alaska were happy with that. Meat for Alaskans is game. Many Alaskans live on marginal incomes, and anything you buy costs at least double what you pay in the lower 48.

Then the do gooders from the lower 48 decided that wolves were just cute wild doggies and didn't deserve th be shot. Since Alaska had now become a state and "tree huggers" were having their way everywhere in the country, wolf control was banned in Alaska. Now the people who depended on moose and caribou for a large part of their "daily bread" were having to work much harder for it and doing with less.

When I was there the State biologists were doing study after study showing the huge impact that wolf and bear predation was having on game species. I was a federal biologist working on newly created wildlife refuges, and we were also convinced that wolves needed to be controlled, and we began studies that confirmed what the state was saying. ALL TO NO AVAIL, THE PEOPLE FROM WASHINGTON DC, NEW YORK CITY, LOS ANGELES, ATLANA, ECT, KNEW BETTER THAN THE RESIDENTS OF ALASKA AND PROFESSIONALS WHO HAD BEEN HIRED TO DO THE WORK.

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #47 on:** November 08, 2012, 11:44:42 AM »

I still didn't get an answer.

tturner53 · « **Reply #48 on:** November 09, 2012, 06:23:49 AM »

Well I've certainly gotten some first hand knowlege here. Thanks for all the replies. I learn from the more 'opinion' based replies too. No doubt wolves is a hot topic. It got me thinking, why shoot coyotes? I haven't but it's not for not trying. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a wolf, under the right circumstances. All predators are competition in my book. Ever seen a video of wolves/yotes taking a calf/fawn from it's mother? I know, it's nature. But still pretty brutal. I'd shoot any predator given the right opportunity just so they won't kill the animal I want to kill. Having spent a lot of time in the hunting grounds of cougars and great whites I'm programmed to be prepared for an attack. Probably like living in wolf country. Not likely, but possible. These toothy fellas need to be kept in their place, we're the top of the food chain now that we have guns. I'm not saying wiped out, just educated on the dangers of messing with man.

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #49 on:** November 09, 2012, 12:36:46 PM »

They were never a threat to humans, are not a threat now, and never will be. Unless you consider (like some have stated) they are a threat to us in the sense they kill the game we want to kill. Someone remined me earlier in the thread that I'm not a wildlife biologist, and I certainly don't know a thing about managing herds and packs. My only point was and is that those who fear for their lives in the company of wolves are sissies.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #50 on:** November 09, 2012, 12:59:18 PM »

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on November 09, 2012, 12:36:46 PM

They were never a threat to humans, are not a threat now, and never will be.

That is absolute BS, and shows just how little you know about wolves in the wild!

All the more reason you need to go live with them for a decade or two, you need the education!

DM

bilmac · « **Reply #51 on:** November 09, 2012, 05:42:31 PM »

How can you read what Sourdough wrote and say they are no threat?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #52 on:** November 10, 2012, 03:51:56 AM »

Quote from: Drilling Man on November 09, 2012, 12:59:18 PM

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on November 09, 2012, 12:36:46 PM
They were never a threat to humans, are not a threat now, and never will be.

That is absolute BS, and shows just how little you know about wolves in the wild!

All the more reason you need to go live with them for a decade or two, you need the education!

DM

Wasn't there a wacko photographer that said the big bears where not a threat? We all know how things turned out for him...

I don't have to be conserned with them... If I did I would not under estimate them.

CW

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #53 on:** November 10, 2012, 03:57:43 AM »

Drilling, you still haven't said why you shoot them. I had to say it for you. It's always a hot issue when folks start talking about eliminating predators. One sector is adamant we shouldn't kill them at all, others say keep them in check for the sake of balance (that's me), and still others say kill 'em all because they will gnaw on our necks. One of the latter is you, I think, as you won't say why you shoot every wolf you see. It's like being scared of being attacked by a rabbit. I told you before just stay in the house and play with your pink dollies.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #54 on:** November 10, 2012, 04:03:18 AM »

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on November 10, 2012, 03:57:43 AM

Drilling, you still haven't said why you shoot them. I had to say it for you. It's always a hot issue when folks start talking about eliminating predators. One sector is adamant we shouldn't kill them at all, others say keep them in check for the sake of balance (that's me), and still others say kill 'em all because they will gnaw on our necks. One of the latter is you, I think, as you won't say why you shoot every wolf you see. It's like being scared of being attacked by a rabbit. I told you before just stay in the house and play with your pink dollies.

HA HA HA keep trying, you may "think" you know everything, but there's enough folks here that know better. Those of us that have "been there, done that" don't have to accuse others of being sissies, we already know who they are... lol

DM

FPH · « **Reply #55 on:** November 10, 2012, 04:10:58 AM »

You know it boils down to if you feel Wolves are a threat, prepare yourself. If not, I suggest always be prepared if you are wrong. I fall in the latter category, but I heed DM and Sourdough's warnings.

Brett · « **Reply #56 on:** November 10, 2012, 08:14:07 AM »

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on November 10, 2012, 03:57:43 AM

It's like being scared of being attacked by a rabbit.

I think former president Jimmy Carter still has nightmares over his ordeal with a rabbit while fishing from a canoe back in the mid 70s.

Mike, you are starting to sound a lot like the idiot who wanted to hug a tiger. He wasn't afraid either... until the tiger started eating him.

There is a big difference between an irrational fear and a healthy respect. Don't confuse the two.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #57 on:** November 10, 2012, 01:39:03 PM »

Mike, Mike, Mike... let me guess you are a "retired city boy" who had a "position of athority"?? You make a demand and everyone is suposeto jump and comply...

Guess because you "demanded" an answer from me, i was suposeto JUMP and comply! ha ha ha Doesn't work that way...

Perhaps you should make a appointment with your therapist now, and discuess why in retirement you still expect everyone to do exactly what you tell them to do!! OR you could just find another forum for wolf lovers and sit for hours telling how wonderful they are, chatting about all the things you READ about, and all the wonderful things they bring to out society.

Get a grip Mike, you really need some first hand experience!

DM

FPH · « **Reply #58 on:** November 10, 2012, 03:04:01 PM »

Mike, in this anonymous venue you say you are considered an expert in this field. Please preset you credentials and the University that you earned those credentials at. Also any organisations which consider you a expert in this field. Doing so may add credibility to your statements.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #59 on:** November 10, 2012, 03:30:27 PM »

i was bitten by a german sheperd dog when i was 6
wolves look like sheperds......and i don't like sheperds to this day over 50 years later

i would shoot a wolf.......just for looking like a sheperd
same with a coyote just a little sheperd