Push-thru Lube

[Hairy Chest]

I need to use the push-thru sizer, then use the Lubesizer.  What kind of lube should I use for the push-thru sizer? 

[Hairy Chest]

This is how I'm doing it currently. 
 

[facetious]

I do the same thing. I spray them with dry  lube first then push them through the push-through die then lube them in the lube sizer.  If using a gas check I put it on with the push-through die.

[Lloyd Smale]

first ill ask why size them twice?? Seems to me your just creating a mess as youd have to wipe off the excess lube. Ive ran 461 4570 bullets through my star using a 452 die in one pass. I guess if your stuck on doing it that way id take a bit of lee tumble lube alox and cut it with some isopropyl alcohol and spray a light coating on them and let them dry. Personly when i run a bullet into a lubesizer i like it a bit on the larger side so that lube isnt squirting out around the bullet.

[Hairy Chest]

The push-thru sizer is used because it provides superior alignment when the bullet is sized.  The down side is it doesn't put the lube in the grooves.  That has to be done manually which is messy, but the accuracy doesn't change.  Alox can be put on it, but it is inferior to quality lubes which allow stiffer loads and higher velocity.  So the best of all worlds is putting up with the mess and using the lubsizer for only lubing. 

[Hairy Chest]

I do the same thing. I spray them with dry  lube first then push them through the push-through die then lube them in the lube sizer.  If using a gas check I put it on with the push-through die.

What kind of dry lube do you use? 

[Hairy Chest]

first ill ask why size them twice?? Seems to me your just creating a mess as youd have to wipe off the excess lube. Ive ran 461 4570 bullets through my star using a 452 die in one pass. I guess if your stuck on doing it that way id take a bit of lee tumble lube alox and cut it with some isopropyl alcohol and spray a light coating on them and let them dry. Personly when i run a bullet into a lubesizer i like it a bit on the larger side so that lube isnt squirting out around the bullet.

Why not just tumble them in Alox for sizing, then run them through the lubsizer? 

[Ranch13]

Pan lube your bullets, then run them thru the pushthru size die. Works like a champ.

[facetious]

I have been using Dry-Lube by PB  Blaster.  I size in the push-through first because if I just use the lube sizer I have push it in to far in order to size the whole bullet and end up with lube going going over the nose. This way I can adjust the lube sizer to put the lube were I want it. This is with a  LBT 150 OWC  I do the same with my LBT 170 LCFN.  All so if you water drop to harden, if you run them through the push-through die first  be for thy age harden it is easer on your lube sizer.

[Hairy Chest]

Pan lube your bullets, then run them thru the pushthru size die. Works like a champ.

Pan lube is the worst, slowest method!   Don't be offended.  I refuse to be a pan handler!   

I just continued on, ran them unclean through the lubsizer and wiped them off with alcohol rag.  Now they look like store-bought bullets, but mine are better because they are harder and a precise fit to my gun than what would be normally available. 

[Ranch13]

Sometime you may want to actually try panlubing, it's not all that bad, and is much simpler than the fiddlediddling you've been doing.
Actually double sizing your bullets is just a waste of time for the most part. I'll even further add that if you're using quality bullet moulds that drop round bullets you don't need to size.
What in the world are you using for alloy that they would be harder than commercial cast. That's usually the biggest problem with commercial cast they are to hard. Unless you're using a bullet from a custom mould that was made to a highquality cerrosafe cast of your chamber, the fit you've got is no better than any other bullet cast and sized to the diameter you're using.

[Hairy Chest]

Sometime you may want to actually try panlubing, it's not all that bad, and is much simpler than the fiddlediddling you've been doing.
Actually double sizing your bullets is just a waste of time for the most part. I'll even further add that if you're using quality bullet moulds that drop round bullets you don't need to size.
What in the world are you using for alloy that they would be harder than commercial cast. That's usually the biggest problem with commercial cast they are to hard. Unless you're using a bullet from a custom mould that was made to a highquality cerrosafe cast of your chamber, the fit you've got is no better than any other bullet cast and sized to the diameter you're using.

I need to size my bullets.  It's nothing to do it the way I've been doing it thru the push sizer.  It would just be one step easier to maybe spray the dry lube initially.  The extra hard bullet is needed for rifle cartridge in the revolver.  But it works for pistol caliber revolvers also.  Harder also reduces pressure so you can push the bullet faster for hunting, if that is a concern.  Couple that with the very best lube and you can expect velocities 200 fps higher same pressure than the same bullet weight jacketed.  Balance being important, handlubing bullets to push through a sizer is the optimal method for uniformity. With a quality mold like LBT, all  bullets weigh within 1/2 grain to ensure uniform drop when reaching out to hunting ranges. 

[facetious]

I do not have to size the OWC's much, .001 at the most, it just makes it easer to lube were I want .The dies have been lapped to the same size .3585". The LCFN's drop from the mold at .313 and I size to .310 and the dies have been lapped to the same size all so. When thy are water dropped thy can get pretty hard. I have been sizing them to .3015 to try paper patching. The first time I tryed to size one dry it stuck in the die so hard I had to knock it back out with a punch and hammer. When I sprayed them with some Dry Lube I could push them through like it was nothing. The ones for paper patching are air cooled WW.

[Ranch13]

]

I need to size my bullets.  It's nothing to do it the way I've been doing it thru the push sizer.  It would just be one step easier to maybe spray the dry lube initially.  The extra hard bullet is needed for rifle cartridge in the revolver.  But it works for pistol caliber revolvers also.  Harder also reduces pressure so you can push the bullet faster for hunting, if that is a concern.  Couple that with the very best lube and you can expect velocities 200 fps higher same pressure than the same bullet weight jacketed.  Balance being important, handlubing bullets to push through a sizer is the optimal method for uniformity. With a quality mold like LBT, all  bullets weigh within 1/2 grain to ensure uniform drop when reaching out to hunting ranges.

If you "need" to size your bullets , either your mould is to big, or the alloy and temp you're using are causing the bullets to drop to large from the blocks.(you can't size a cast bullet up without swaging equipment)
Good luck with your endeavors, I just hope you don't blow something up along the way. Harder bullets don't reduce pressure, and you will not get 200 fps more than jacketed at the same pressure. You may also want to invest in a chronograph and spend sometime in loading manuals like Lymans that actually give pressure data.
Might also want to google up panlubing bullets, and at least see what the process is. The more times you run a bullet thru something the more chance you have of screwing it up.Actually using a good lubriser with a nose punch that fits properly will produce bullets capable of match winning accuracy, provided the gun and the trigger yanker are up to the task.You may also want to consider the Star lubrisizer, sort of the best of both worlds, pushthru, but applies the lube in the process.
Ladel pouring usually turns out the most consistant bullets. I also like the locking mould handles from Cabine Tree. Actually even a 3-4 gr weight difference is not likely to show up on the target at hunting distances. It's barely descernable at 1000 yds, so long as the bases are good and the noses aren't deformed. But you are correct in that uniform weights are a bonus.
If you want a real eyeopener in bullet size and what may or may not matter, take a look at what some group sizes of the champion bpcr shooters  at distances to 1000 yds with bullets that are patched to bore size or just under....
 

[Hairy Chest]

]

I need to size my bullets.  It's nothing to do it the way I've been doing it thru the push sizer.  It would just be one step easier to maybe spray the dry lube initially.  The extra hard bullet is needed for rifle cartridge in the revolver.  But it works for pistol caliber revolvers also.  Harder also reduces pressure so you can push the bullet faster for hunting, if that is a concern.  Couple that with the very best lube and you can expect velocities 200 fps higher same pressure than the same bullet weight jacketed.  Balance being important, handlubing bullets to push through a sizer is the optimal method for uniformity. With a quality mold like LBT, all  bullets weigh within 1/2 grain to ensure uniform drop when reaching out to hunting ranges.

If you "need" to size your bullets , either your mould is to big, or the alloy and temp you're using are causing the bullets to drop to large from the blocks.(you can't size a cast bullet up without swaging equipment)
Good luck with your endeavors, I just hope you don't blow something up along the way. Harder bullets don't reduce pressure, and you will not get 200 fps more than jacketed at the same pressure. You may also want to invest in a chronograph and spend sometime in loading manuals like Lymans that actually give pressure data.
Might also want to google up panlubing bullets, and at least see what the process is. The more times you run a bullet thru something the more chance you have of screwing it up.Actually using a good lubriser with a nose punch that fits properly will produce bullets capable of match winning accuracy, provided the gun and the trigger yanker are up to the task.You may also want to consider the Star lubrisizer, sort of the best of both worlds, pushthru, but applies the lube in the process.
Ladel pouring usually turns out the most consistant bullets. I also like the locking mould handles from Cabine Tree. Actually even a 3-4 gr weight difference is not likely to show up on the target at hunting distances. It's barely descernable at 1000 yds, so long as the bases are good and the noses aren't deformed. But you are correct in that uniform weights are a bonus.
If you want a real eyeopener in bullet size and what may or may not matter, take a look at what some group sizes of the champion bpcr shooters  at distances to 1000 yds with bullets that are patched to bore size or just under....
 

Locking mold handles.  That sounds like a good idea.  But the pan is long gone just like using the term boolits!   

[Ranch13]

You can get those locking handles either direct or thru Buffalo Arms.
Pan lubing is alive and well and doing very fine.
Never ever used the term boolits.

[Hairy Chest]

You can get those locking handles either direct or thru Buffalo Arms.
Pan lubing is alive and well and doing very fine.
Never ever used the term boolits.

Thanks.

[Hairy Chest]

Casted two days ago.  BH 33.  All loaded up and ready to go.



Last week I shot 5 to test the zero.  All was good.  That's an LBT 420 grn LFNGC.  Don't try that load with Alox!  You need a good lube, like LBT Blue to push that kind of a load.  Jacketed a 400 grain bullet does best with 27.0 grains.  Higher it opens up.  But with cast you can load it higher for the same pressure. 

[facetious]

I was thinking , if you didn't want to use the dry lube for what ever reason maybe one of the spray case sizing lubes would work. For that mater any of the case sizing lubes should be OK. With something like Lee's case sizing lube you could just leave it on the "boolits" and not have to wash it off.

[Lloyd Smale]

Same was allways advertised as one of the big advantages to a star. I own a star and its the only sizer i use anymore but for the speed not because i worry about alignement. Back about 10 years ago i was curious enough to try to see if there was a differnce. At that time i had two lyman sizer one rcbs and had just gotten a star. I sized bullets out of the same batch on all three. I used 3 differnt 44 bullets. I sized each of the three on both the star and the lyman presses and shot them all with good loads i had devleloped for that gun. I found absolutely no diffence in group size at 50 yards between the lyman and star. My buddy also about the same time tested some bullets out of his star nose first sizing and base first and said if theres a differnce in accuracy he sure couldnt measure it.Dont get me wrong. I love my star. So much if fact that all the other presses are long gone. But my love of it comes from the fact you can size bullets 3 times faster!

The push-thru sizer is used because it provides superior alignment when the bullet is sized.  The down side is it doesn't put the lube in the grooves.  That has to be done manually which is messy, but the accuracy doesn't change.  Alox can be put on it, but it is inferior to quality lubes which allow stiffer loads and higher velocity.  So the best of all worlds is putting up with the mess and using the lubsizer for only lubing.

[Hairy Chest]

Same was allways advertised as one of the big advantages to a star. I own a star and its the only sizer i use anymore but for the speed not because i worry about alignement. Back about 10 years ago i was curious enough to try to see if there was a differnce. At that time i had two lyman sizer one rcbs and had just gotten a star. I sized bullets out of the same batch on all three. I used 3 differnt 44 bullets. I sized each of the three on both the star and the lyman presses and shot them all with good loads i had devleloped for that gun. I found absolutely no diffence in group size at 50 yards between the lyman and star. My buddy also about the same time tested some bullets out of his star nose first sizing and base first and said if theres a differnce in accuracy he sure couldnt measure it.Dont get me wrong. I love my star. So much if fact that all the other presses are long gone. But my love of it comes from the fact you can size bullets 3 times faster!

The push-thru sizer is used because it provides superior alignment when the bullet is sized.  The down side is it doesn't put the lube in the grooves.  That has to be done manually which is messy, but the accuracy doesn't change.  Alox can be put on it, but it is inferior to quality lubes which allow stiffer loads and higher velocity.  So the best of all worlds is putting up with the mess and using the lubsizer for only lubing.

How does the Star perform on keeping the bases lube-free?  How quick is caliber changeover?  What are the downsides?

[Hairy Chest]

I was thinking , if you didn't want to use the dry lube for what ever reason maybe one of the spray case sizing lubes would work. For that mater any of the case sizing lubes should be OK. With something like Lee's case sizing lube you could just leave it on the "boolits" and not have to wash it off.

I just found from a reliable source who has tested dry lube and he says it causes leading.  So ditch the dry lube.  LBT told me to put Lee case lube in water so it is foggy and that is good enough.   

[res45]

I apply all my gas check and size when needed with Lee push thru sizers I own about six different caliber sizers.  If I'm going to size plain base bullets I give them a light coating of Alox thinned with mineral spirits about 10 drops per 100 bullets does just fine after sizing they get another coat of Alox/JPW lube.

For applying gas check  and sizing bullets that I plan on pan lubing or ranch dipping I use a little Imperial sizing wax on my thumb and finger I can do about five bullets before having to apply more wax to my finger.  After the bullets are cut from the lube or the dipped ones dry I run them back through the sizer to clean them up. 

I love the process of making them as much as I do shooting them,it's my hobby and what I do for relaxation.  Cold weather is coming,time to smelt,make ingots,cast up a couple K of each caliber bullets.

Couple of my Ranch Dipped bullets after cleanup.


Pan Lubed on left,same bullet tumble lubed with GC left off on right.

[Hairy Chest]

Great.  Thanks for sharing.  The dipped bullets look good.  I'm surprised the lube didn't run out of the grooves. Could I do that with LBT Blue?     

[res45]

Great.  Thanks for sharing.  The dipped bullets look good.  I'm surprised the lube didn't run out of the grooves. Could I do that with LBT Blue?   

Not sure never used that lube before,the Alox/JPW lube I make myself is similar to pan lube you have to warm it up to get it to flow once it cools it solidifies.

My JPW lube at room temperature.

[Lloyd Smale]

not like the lymans with lube on the bases. Caliber change is just as quick as a lyman once you get used to it. Only real disadvantage is there more expensive and dies a bit more expensive but in my book WELL worth the cost of admision!! I always have said the two best things ive ever bought for my shooting and loading hobby were the star sizer and a dillon 550. I wouldnt be without either!

Same was allways advertised as one of the big advantages to a star. I own a star and its the only sizer i use anymore but for the speed not because i worry about alignement. Back about 10 years ago i was curious enough to try to see if there was a differnce. At that time i had two lyman sizer one rcbs and had just gotten a star. I sized bullets out of the same batch on all three. I used 3 differnt 44 bullets. I sized each of the three on both the star and the lyman presses and shot them all with good loads i had devleloped for that gun. I found absolutely no diffence in group size at 50 yards between the lyman and star. My buddy also about the same time tested some bullets out of his star nose first sizing and base first and said if theres a differnce in accuracy he sure couldnt measure it.Dont get me wrong. I love my star. So much if fact that all the other presses are long gone. But my love of it comes from the fact you can size bullets 3 times faster!

The push-thru sizer is used because it provides superior alignment when the bullet is sized.  The down side is it doesn't put the lube in the grooves.  That has to be done manually which is messy, but the accuracy doesn't change.  Alox can be put on it, but it is inferior to quality lubes which allow stiffer loads and higher velocity.  So the best of all worlds is putting up with the mess and using the lubsizer for only lubing.

How does the Star perform on keeping the bases lube-free?  How quick is caliber changeover?  What are the downsides?

[Hairy Chest]

not like the lymans with lube on the bases. Caliber change is just as quick as a lyman once you get used to it. Only real disadvantage is there more expensive and dies a bit more expensive but in my book WELL worth the cost of admision!! I always have said the two best things ive ever bought for my shooting and loading hobby were the star sizer and a dillon 550. I wouldnt be without either!

Good advice, Lloyd.  It sure must be fun to make a zillion rounds real quick.  Then you've got that bullet trap so you are set.  I like to look at Dillon stuff, but I'm not a high volume shooter.  Star is on my wish list.   

[Hairy Chest]

Great.  Thanks for sharing.  The dipped bullets look good.  I'm surprised the lube didn't run out of the grooves. Could I do that with LBT Blue?   

Not sure never used that lube before,the Alox/JPW lube I make myself is similar to pan lube you have to warm it up to get it to flow once it cools it solidifies.

My JPW lube at room temperature.

It looks good, but it probably costs more than just buying lube.  Right? 

[res45]

It looks good, but it probably costs more than just buying lube.  Right? 

The 4 oz. bottle of Alox comes with each of the sizing dies,still have three extra bottles of that I haven't even touched. 

My only other cost is a $5 can of Johnson Paste Wax or $2.50 per 8 oz. batch of lube,that will make two batches of lube.  I split the can of JPW into two 8 oz. portions and cook each portion down to 4 fl. oz. then I mix the 4 fl. oz. of JPW with the 4 oz. bottle of Alox for a 50/50 mix in another bottle as pictured.

Many people over do the TL process and use to much lube,just a light golden sheen is all you need. As I mentioned I use 10 to 15 drops per 100 bullets let dry and size and or lube once more if I'm shooting them as cast.   I probably average 4K to 5K bullets per 8 fl. oz. bottle of lube depending on bullet size and caliber there are around 590 drops per 1 US fluid oz.

My pan lube is a bit more expensive but none goes to waste.  It basically consist of two 12" solid stick of Blue Angle hard lube I picked up for $1.50 each at a gun shop on clearance I got six sticks.   I melt those on low heat in an old thick aluminum coffee pot somebody gave me,to that I add one half lb. of cheap Vaseline $2 and 4 fl. oz. of JPW $2.50.  I make sure it's all melted and blended in together.   
 
 I load all my GC bullets nose down in two old 50 rd. plastic ammo sleeve glued together,place my silicone baking pan on top flip them over onto my table top which is nice and level.  At that point i can position the sleeves where I want them in the pan remove them and pour the lube to the desired level,once the lube cools for about 30 to 45 min. while it's still semi soft but can be remove from the pan without breaking and placed on my cutting board.   I use my homemade cutter to cut out the bullet it's help that the lube is still semi soft as they cut out very easy.  I let them dry overnight and run them back through the sizer die the next day to clean them up.

Not sure how many bullets I can lube with this present batch,probably a couple thousand at the going rate and I have more cast and lubed up ready to go than I will probably shoot over the next six month  and with cold weather coming along I'll have plenty of time to do more.   

[Hairy Chest]

I split the can of JPW into two 8 oz. portions and cook each portion down to 4 fl. oz. then I mix the 4 fl. oz. of JPW with the 4 oz. bottle of Alox for a 50/50 mix in another bottle as pictured.

Many people over do the TL process and use to much lube,just a light golden sheen is all you need. As I mentioned I use 10 to 15 drops per 100 bullets let dry and size and or lube once more if I'm shooting them as cast.   I probably average 4K to 5K bullets per 8 fl. oz. bottle of lube depending on bullet size and caliber there are around 590 drops per 1 US fluid oz.

Great info., res45.  The bullets in the first picture look great and they must have been done with the ranch dip technique.  How do you do that?  Thanks for sharing.