Author Topic: Looking for a simple looking rifle (Read 1698 times)

Bugflipper · « **on:** October 29, 2012, 08:13:22 PM »

I have an old SxS that I really like the stock on. The closest I can find to it is a Crockett rifle. http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_216718_999_01?rgn=0,0,2000,369&scl=3.8095238095238093&fmt=jpeg&id=3DQX1zrKSOqCXLXFApf13O
I would like this pattern with the short hand guard. To be honest I don't know the proper search terms to look for one. I like the TN rifles because most of them look pretty utilitarian instead of fancy. The chopped down renegade style doesn't have the old look I want and the hand guard part is to fat. I also don't care for the shiny brass parts on most ml. This is what I mean by fancy and don't like shiny guns at all. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Black-Powder/Traditional-Rifles-Shotguns%7C/pc/104792580/c/104701680/sc/104641380/Cabelas-Traditional-Hawken-Percussion-Rifle-Right-Hand/733533.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-black-powder-traditional-rifles-shotguns%2F_%2FN-1100202%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104641380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd740702&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd740702%3Bcat104641380
I just want simple black metal, no patch box. Basically I want a wall hanger that I can hunt and shoot with. The 32 is a little light weight, don't plan on squirrel hunting with a ml. So any other options than the Crockett? Most likely will be looking for a used one. May be able to do light work on a stock, but definitely don't have the woodworking ability to do anything major.
Thanks

tacklebury · « **Reply #1 on:** October 30, 2012, 03:32:39 PM »

This kit looks like something you'd like. It is decently priced and for $100 more he'll inlet the lock for you.

http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k/K46%20Tenn%20Poor%20Boy%20Squirrel%20Rifle/Tenn.%20Poor%20Boy%20Squirrel%20Rifle.htm

Bugflipper · « **Reply #2 on:** October 30, 2012, 07:03:46 PM »

Thanks, that's pretty well what I'm looking for and then chop the hand guard length just past where it goes from big to little. I found a search term that you fellows may know more about than I would.
A page I read called them Southern mountain rifles. Below is a copy and paste of what a fellow had to say about them. The bad part is the folks that make them seem to charge a premium for the plain rifles and salvaged parts.

So are there any mass produced ones that would pretty well match this style with a little bluing, paint and sawing? I can cut and shape a premade stock on the outside. I just don't have a router, not any real woodworking tools. So am limited to modifying only, not making my own.
Many thanks for that one Tacklebury. Now at least I know what to search for.

The Southern Mountain Rifle is a recognized subcategpry of flintlock rifles. They tend to be plain, rarely have a patchbox (more usually, just a grease hole in the side of the buttstock), and are often made up of locks and barrels salvaged from worn-out or broken guns. They were essentially home-made weapons common among the poor folks in the southern highlands. Most are pretty rough guns, but some I've seen are quite graceful and very well put together.

[/t]

lakota · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2012, 05:59:31 AM »

If you have to settle on a muzzleloader with brass Birchwood Casey makes a product called Brass Black. I have used it on my brass powder flask, pan charger and powder measure. It turns the brass flat black to look like it hasnt been polished in years.

Another hillbilly fix my buddy tried: He got sick of the shiny brass on his T/C Hawken. He went and found a paint that looke like the color of rust browning and painted all of the brass. As ridiculous as this may sound it actually looked good.

tacklebury · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2012, 04:19:48 PM »

Yep, often referred to as Poor boy Rifles or Barn Guns as well. Usually nothing fancy or brass.

This is his Pennsylvania Barn Gun Style, might be closer too.
http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k/K41%20Pennsylvania%20Dutch%20Barn%20Gun/K41Penn%20Dutch%20Barn%20Gun.htm

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #5 on:** November 01, 2012, 03:40:52 AM »

tacklebury, I have never heard of Sitting Fox. I sure aml glad you posted that. It looks like they make a quality product at a reasonable price.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2012, 08:23:17 AM »

I don't remember hearing of them either. $:-\$ But at my age not remembering isn't unusual...

Anyway, I started comparing the price of Fox's Tulle Fusil De Chasse kit with the one from TOTW. And while the Fox kit was cheaper, I saw that he didn't say who made some pretty important parts; like the barrel and the lock. He may have and I just didn't notice it and I didn't want to spend the time looking.

But I tell ya, I'd much rather have a Colerain barrel and a Siler lock then some cheaply made stuff!

The first rifle I put together was a Southern Mountain Rifle. I think I posted a picture of it here a good while back. I bought each part as I could afford it. Money was tight back then!

I bought the parts in an order that gave me something to work on while the funds built back up. That's pretty easy to do when you remember that, unlike modern rifles, everything on a ML attaches to the stock! Great fun!

P.A. Myers · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2012, 05:40:20 PM »

A very utilitarian looking commercial side-hammer is the Lyman DeerStalker. No brass and even a 'dead' finish.

P.A.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2012, 08:42:24 PM »

I tried to take a pic but it kept on going upside down no matter which way I turned the phone. Here is one that looks like the shotgun, that I pulled off the net. One barrel must have had a hot or double charge in it years ago. If you drop the same powder and lead in both, one feels like a magnum and the other a standard. Kind of scary with the old washer stacked barrels, but it's been fired thousands of times since I've had it and hasn't showed any problems. It patterns good at 55-60 grains so I don't have to push my luck that much. I drop 10 grains less in the hot barrel for the same velocity/pattern. I proofed it with 120 gr and a string before I started shooting it. The only real problem with it is the right hammer spring is lighter than the left one and it makes the lock time slower. But you can pull both barrels at the same time while leeding and sling a mean shot string since the right barrel lights off just after the left one.

Thanks for the replies I'll keep looking into them. Winter is coming up and I'd like to have something to mess around with in my spare time. I might even spot something on the classifieds.

bubba.50 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2012, 10:55:41 PM »

go to www.traditionalmuzzleloadingcheap.com scroll down to general merchantile and then click on the "45 cal halfstock rifle" post by mongrel and look at the most beautiful, simply styled custom rifle yer ever likely to find for the $400.00 price. it's got an awesome piece of wood, no patchbox, and all the features you seem to want. ya hafta be a member to look in that section but it's no harder than signin' up here.

JonnyReb · « **Reply #10 on:** November 02, 2012, 03:16:20 AM »

Thats a fine looking shotgun Bugflipper and I agree that plainer is purdier. This early model t/c New Englander shotgun is not considered authentic to its ancestors I guess but to my eye its good enough, simple and plain. I thought its lines were similar to your sxs's and thought i'd put up a pic for comparison. Jeff

lakota · « **Reply #11 on:** November 02, 2012, 06:57:22 AM »

Thanks for posting that link Bubba. I never saw that page.

bubba.50 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 02, 2012, 09:21:03 AM »

so ya did or didn't find it? if ya went to general merchantile & clicked, then to rifles & pistols for sale you'll see it near the top under the stickies-nice 45 cal half stock rifle for sale. the guy's username is mongrel. makes pretty daggone nice lookin' utilitarian rifles for the money in my opinion. for what it's worth & have a good'en, bubba.

tacklebury · « **Reply #13 on:** November 02, 2012, 11:15:51 AM »

The add states it is a green mountain barrel and siler lock on the first one. The barn gun says it's a siler lock. I think most of his transition barrels are Colrain, but I'll ask him tomorrow. Going to check out his shop first hand and taking my buddy who is an ex-gunsmith and also into muzzle loading. He knows his way around guns and I was hoping to see what his wood selections look like also.

bubba.50 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 02, 2012, 05:48:20 PM »

yer lookin' at the wrong post. the post i'm referrin' to only has the one gun. it simply says : nice 45 caliber half stock rifle for sale. it's a $400.00 gun with a tiger striped maple stock that's about worth that.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #15 on:** November 02, 2012, 06:37:13 PM »

It wont let me look at it Bubba. Says waiting for admin approval.

bubba.50 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 02, 2012, 06:54:55 PM »

if you just signed up it means yer waitin' on yer confirmation email or some such. i think yer email is in my contacts. if it is i'll see if i can forward it to ya.

tacklebury · « **Reply #17 on:** November 03, 2012, 02:29:42 PM »

Well, I went and checked out the Sitting Fox guy's set-up. He's basically a parts repackager and uses the MGS nameplate on barrels and locks. Not really familiar with them and he didn't have any made-up examples or anything. There was some minor defects in a couple of the locks I looked at, but I think that is pretty common. Anyway, I'd highly recommend calling and making sure things are clear on what you want, prior to ordering.

***edit***
I should add that the MGS barrels do come with the cut dovetails and installed underlugs and front sight. Most other sites I've reviewed don't come with this and it's nice to have it done for you.

P.A. Myers · « **Reply #18 on:** November 04, 2012, 01:09:43 AM »

ToW has some very interesting looking fullstock T/C based wood. Length could be determined by you.

Brass black & stainless

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #19 on:** November 04, 2012, 07:10:33 AM »

I've always wanted a smooth bore rifle. Sitting Fox has one, and early Virginia, in kit or completely finished. Built just like a rifle, sights and all, but with a smooth bore. Easy to clean and more than enough accuracy for my heavy timber hunting.
I've sent them an email to try and get the actual manufacturer of the barrel and lock. Wouldn't it be awful to have one made just to find out it had cheap parts?

tacklebury · « **Reply #20 on:** November 04, 2012, 01:47:03 PM »

I wouldn't worry too much. His parts didn't look cheap, just stating there were a few marks in some of the castings. Sorry if I made it sound poor. It just wan't a nameplate I was really familiar with. I will say that the wood looked nice and he had several grades of some of the stocks. I am buying a pair from him, so they didn't look too bad to me!

I'm getting the std. Fusil de Chase and the French Tulle Pistol to match. Both flint and both 62 cal/20 ga. smoothbores.

Links to the two I'm getting:
http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k/K17%20French%20Tulle%20Fusil%20De%20Chase/K17%20French%20Tulle%20Fusil%20De%20Chase/K17%20French%20Tulle%20Fusil%20De%20Chase.html
http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/p/P10%20French%20Tulle%20Pistol_files/P10%20French%20Tulle%20Pistol.htm

Bugflipper · « **Reply #21 on:** November 05, 2012, 07:26:03 PM »

Well looks like this project will have to be placed on hold. My tractor is giving me fits. It's just in the upper 40's and not wanting to start very well. Tractor plus a diesel engine usually equals a light wallet.

JonnyReb · « **Reply #22 on:** November 06, 2012, 04:12:58 AM »

Yup, its always something..hopefully just some 10.00 glowplugs.:->

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #23 on:** November 06, 2012, 09:41:05 AM »

I got a response from Sitting Fox. Their barrels are Colerain and the locks are Siler. You can pay more and get a lock by L&R or Chambers. All good stuff.

tacklebury · « **Reply #24 on:** November 06, 2012, 11:22:19 AM »

Ah must have been a distributor tag I saw on them that was MGS, sorry for any misinfo. I thought originally the wedding band barrels were Colerain, but figured I was thinking of something else.

I am looking at doing the Jim Chambers Deluxe locks as an upgrade. Need to find out how much more they would be.

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #25 on:** November 07, 2012, 04:10:09 PM »

Quote from: bubba.50 on November 02, 2012, 05:48:20 PM

yer lookin' at the wrong post. the post i'm referrin' to only has the one gun. it simply says : nice 45 caliber half stock rifle for sale. it's a $400.00 gun with a tiger striped maple stock that's about worth that.

I've eye balled that gun Bubba.50, it does have a nice piece of wood, and is quite reasonably priced.

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #26 on:** November 09, 2012, 03:53:26 AM »

Quote from: Bugflipper on October 29, 2012, 08:13:22 PM

I have an old SxS that I really like the stock on. The closest I can find to it is a Crockett rifle. http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_216718_999_01?rgn=0,0,2000,369&scl=3.8095238095238093&fmt=jpeg&id=3DQX1zrKSOqCXLXFApf13O
I would like this pattern with the short hand guard. To be honest I don't know the proper search terms to look for one. I like the TN rifles because most of them look pretty utilitarian instead of fancy. The chopped down renegade style doesn't have the old look I want and the hand guard part is to fat. I also don't care for the shiny brass parts on most ml. This is what I mean by fancy and don't like shiny guns at all. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Black-Powder/Traditional-Rifles-Shotguns%7C/pc/104792580/c/104701680/sc/104641380/Cabelas-Traditional-Hawken-Percussion-Rifle-Right-Hand/733533.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-black-powder-traditional-rifles-shotguns%2F_%2FN-1100202%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104641380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd740702&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd740702%3Bcat104641380
I just want simple black metal, no patch box. Basically I want a wall hanger that I can hunt and shoot with. The 32 is a little light weight, don't plan on squirrel hunting with a ml. So any other options than the Crockett? Most likely will be looking for a used one. May be able to do light work on a stock, but definitely don't have the woodworking ability to do anything major.
Thanks

Here are a few nice wall hangers that possess nice simple lines and yet are very functional.

The upper gun is a .45 calibre Kentucky Poorboy, the middle is an Early Virginia in 20 gauge smooth bore and the bottom is an Ofiicers Model Brown Bess.

Each of these firearms is beautiful to look at and a pleasure to shoot in the field.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #27 on:** November 17, 2012, 12:40:34 PM »

Well ended up deciding on a renegade after all. I figured with a little whittling on the forend and some dark stain I might end up with something that would match the old shotgun I always hunt with. My intention is to hang them up at the back door and just grab whichever when going out back to hunt. The only problem now is I am thinking about rounding it out with a 3rd one in 32 or 36 for small game and target.

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #28 on:** November 17, 2012, 02:51:25 PM »

Bugfliiper, good choice on the Renegade. I watch the shops weekly for a nice T/C. At one time, I looked down on the Thompsons because they didn't have authentic sights and lines. But lordy when I started pricing a custom rifle, the T/C looks mighty nice.
The first flintlock I ever had was a T/C Hawken in .45. I was a kid; didn't know that the lock time of a T/C can be as fast as any other. Just a matter of the right size sharp flint. That was one I wish I still had.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #29 on:** November 17, 2012, 06:42:49 PM »

I've never had a renegade before. To be honest I don't care for short barrels on a ml. The shorter sight radius detracts a good bit. But the main thing is they don't steady as good for offhand shooting in my hands. It takes a while for me to focus the sights so a longer barrel tends to be a little steadier. I'm going to try and correct that with a peep and maybe slim the forearm a bit. Not focusing on 3 points will probably make it where I don't have to steady the gun as long to get the aim perfect. The renegades are supposed to be pretty decent with ball and bullet so I'll get some molds on the way and see what it'll do. I'm going stir crazy, everything is harvested, nothing needs fixed, the freezer is already full,, I need something to piddle with or it will be a very long winter.