Author Topic: Question for attorneys  (Read 766 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline KIMBER45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Question for attorneys
« on: November 01, 2012, 06:36:12 AM »
We all know that some of the information given out about the other candidate are proven lies .Does the candidate who is being lied about have any legal recourse? If the liers were held accountable , wouldn't that help in making a decision who to support? A campaign based on truth would be very refreshing.
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
-----------------
Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
--------------------------------
Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
-------

-------

Offline Anna

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2263
  • Gender: Female
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2012, 08:39:59 AM »
Usually the plaintiff (victim) in a thing like that would have the choice to file a case in a court of law against the defendant (accused) for one of two things.
One being a case of slander, or the other one being on the grounds of defamation of character.
Both of these being very hard to prove in order to get any damages awarded to the victim.
Then even if the victim did get a judgement for damages, collecting them is a whole different story.
The accuser could then just appeal the court ruling and tie the whole thing up in the courts for years.
Or file a chapter seven under the bankruptcy laws of the state the original court ruling was in .
Either way, both party's would still be responsible for their own attorney fees and court cost that by that time would be substantial.







[size=78%]                                                                [/size]

Offline Hairy Chest

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1485
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2012, 10:20:11 AM »
We all know that some of the information given out about the other candidate are proven lies .Does the candidate who is being lied about have any legal recourse? If the liers were held accountable , wouldn't that help in making a decision who to support? A campaign based on truth would be very refreshing.

I'm not an attorney, but took a class in Law of Mass Communications.  He would have to prove 'malice' which is a difficult hurdle, since he is a public figure.  If he was private, then he could sue for damages.  Correct, attorney's? 
Study after study has shown how dangerous distracted driving is yet people continue to talk on their cell phones while driving. Driving in the U.S. requires your full attention. Many states and countries have made it illegal to use a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle and the federal government should follow their lead. Banning the use of cell phones while driving would have the added benefit of making the no-texting law enforceable.

Offline ChungDoQuan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
  • Eisenhower Conservative
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 10:32:59 AM »
In some countries, you have to be able to prove what you say about someone, even politicians, or you go to jail for libel. So, who goes to jail for corporate ads? The CEO? The Trustees? The shareholders?
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline KIMBER45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2012, 12:07:33 PM »
Usually the plaintiff (victim) in a thing like that would have the choice to file a case in a court of law against the defendant (accused) for one of two things.
One being a case of slander, or the other one being on the grounds of defamation of character.
Both of these being very hard to prove in order to get any damages awarded to the victim.
Then even if the victim did get a judgement for damages, collecting them is a whole different story.
The accuser could then just appeal the court ruling and tie the whole thing up in the courts for years.
Or file a chapter seven under the bankruptcy laws of the state the original court ruling was in .
Either way, both party's would still be responsible for their own attorney fees and court cost that by that time would be substantial.








I would think , just the fact that the other candidate was made out to be a liar would be good enough for the liar to lose alot of his votes. As far as the cost , that would be trivial compared to the amount they spend on publicity.
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
-----------------
Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
--------------------------------
Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
-------

-------

Offline Anna

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2263
  • Gender: Female
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2012, 12:13:09 PM »
In some countries, you have to be able to prove what you say about someone, even politicians, or you go to jail for libel. So, who goes to jail for corporate ads? The CEO? The Trustees? The shareholders?


In some places things like this are still settled with pistols at dawn.  If that were still the case in general, you would see a lot more nicer people at least where their mouths were concerned .
I guess that would then make Liberals an endangered species !

Offline ChungDoQuan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
  • Eisenhower Conservative
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2012, 12:34:40 PM »
Liberals usually have proof. It's only offensive because some, with belief instead of proof, disagree.
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline KIMBER45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2012, 01:28:38 PM »
Please don't turn this into a liberal- conservative thing.  >:(
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
-----------------
Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
--------------------------------
Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
-------

-------

Offline KIMBER45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2012, 04:13:28 AM »
Wonder why no attorneys have chimed in ?
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
-----------------
Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
--------------------------------
Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
-------

-------

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 04:43:25 AM »
We are talking politics here--right?  Candidates lying about their opponents is part of the game.  If politics were held to some kind of legal truth standard, it would come to a grinding hault.  It is for the voter to make up their mind which is telling the truth they want to hear. 
 
Swingem

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 04:55:17 AM »
Kimber. I don't think any of that applies to politicians. Now, if you or I were telling lies about each other that would likely be considered libel, with politicians it's called smart politics. POWDERMAN.  ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline BBF

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10042
  • Gender: Male
  • I feel much better now knowing it will get worse.
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2012, 05:40:41 AM »
Attorneys get paid for their services/opinions. Why would they do it for gratis here?
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline dukkillr

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3428
    • The Daily Limit
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2012, 10:50:46 AM »
Attorneys get paid for their services/opinions. Why would they do it for gratis here?
Or maybe we've been too busy chasing birds around south Dakota?

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2012, 11:53:33 AM »
Attorneys get paid for their services/opinions. Why would they do it for gratis here?
Or maybe we've been too busy chasing birds around south Dakota?

 
DUK. Snipe?? You hold the bag, I'll run em to ya. POWDERMAN. ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline BBF

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10042
  • Gender: Male
  • I feel much better now knowing it will get worse.
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2012, 04:50:09 AM »
Attorneys get paid for their services/opinions. Why would they do it for gratis here?
Or maybe we've been too busy chasing birds around south Dakota?

A good excuse as any, possibly better than some. ;D ;D
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline mannyrock

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2081
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2012, 05:38:22 AM »
  I am an attorney,  and have been for more than 30 years, and can give you a very clear answer.
  1.  Based on several Supreme Court cases that were issued in the 1960s and 1970s, the law of slander and defamation were changed, in order to make sure that people and media have freedom to say what they want in matters of public debate, without fear of getting sued.    These cases stemmed from the special status given under the Bill of Rights to Freedom of Speech (including freedom of political association) and Freedom of the Press (which includes of course all news media, and not just newspapers).   In order to protect these freedoms, the Court created a special class of person, called a "public figure."   A pubic figure is anyone who intentionally or unintentionally is thrust into the realm of public matters or public commentary, whether through politics, fame, or position.  It includes politicians, movie stars, members of the school board, and anybody else who is famous or in the public eye.   
 
   2.    If a person is a Public Figure (and clearly, all people running for public office are), then they cannot sue for slander or defamation merely because statements are false or defaming.  They must prove "actual malice", which the courts have defined as follows: They must prove that (i) the statements are absolutely false, (ii) the statements are such that an ordinary person would consider them materially damaging to the business or personal reputation of the victim, (iii) the person or entity making the statements absolutely and positively knew they were false statements when they made or published them,  (iv) the person making or publishing the statements went ahead and did it with actual intent of harming the victim, and (v) the statements resulted in actual money damages to the victim.    The victim of the slander or defamation has the burden of proving each and every one of these factors, in a court of law, with the cased tried by a jury, in order to recover a single penny.  Even then, the jury can decide to issue nominal damages, of say $1.00.
 
  So, in short, based on the Bill of Rights, it is almost impossible for a public figure to ever sue for slander or defamation and win anything.  One of the few people who was sucessful at this in recent times, is Carol Burnett, who sued the National Enquirer for falsely reporting that she was drunk at lunch in a famous Hollywood restaurant.  She hired the best attorneys in L.A., and pursued them for years, finally winning more than a million dollars in a jury trial, which she immediately donated to charity.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Mannyrock
 

Offline blind ear

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4156
  • Gender: Male
    • eddiegjr
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2012, 05:45:01 AM »
Attorneys get paid for their services/opinions. Why would they do it for gratis here?
Or maybe we've been too busy chasing birds around south Dakota?
-
It is certainly more fun and it is PRODUCTIVE! Politics and productive don't work together. ear
Oath Keepers: start local
-
“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
St Judes Childrens Research Hospital

Offline KIMBER45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2012, 11:36:37 AM »
It just proves to me how messed up the system is. It is  perfectly ok to make up lies about your opponent so you can win. I would at least like to know who was lying or lying the most. He would be off my list. For me , it shows lack of integrity. If they are both liars, than neither get my vote. Why vote for any liar. And a far better question  WHY DO WE ALLOW IT!! WE ARE THE ONES WITH THE POWER.
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
-----------------
Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
--------------------------------
Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
-------

-------

Offline LONGTOM

  • Trade Count: (391)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4644
  • Gender: Male
  • IF ONLY I COULD GO BACK-I WOULD BE A MOUNTAIN MAN!
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2012, 11:50:15 AM »
Liberals usually have proof. It's only offensive because some, with belief instead of proof, disagree.

 
I guess I can keep calling him THE LIAR IN THE WHITE HOUSE sense I have plenty of proof to back it up.

 
 
LONGTOM
NRA Benefactor Life Member
NAHC Life Member
NRA Member-JAMES MADISON BRIGADE
IWLA Member
NRA/ILA Member
CCRKBA Member
US OLIMPIC SHOOTING TEAM supporter

"THE TREE OF LIBERTY FROM TIME TO TIME MUST BE REFRESHED WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS".
THOMAS JEFFERSON

That my two young sons may never have to know the horrors of war. 

I will stand for your rights as my forefathers did before me!
My thanks to those who have, are and will stand for mine!
To those in the military, I salute you!

LONGTOM 9-25-07

Offline Defoe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
  • Gender: Male
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2012, 11:54:28 AM »
Liberals usually have proof. It's only offensive because some, with belief instead of proof, disagree.
I'm a stranger here, but this post speaks volumnes to me.
and it's one of the lies referred to.

Offline Defoe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
  • Gender: Male
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2012, 11:56:38 AM »
We are talking politics here--right?  Candidates lying about their opponents is part of the game.  If politics were held to some kind of legal truth standard, it would come to a grinding hault.  It is for the voter to make up their mind which is telling the truth they want to hear.
very true.  it's a shame that more people don't scrutinize their past records.

Offline Lon371

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (53)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
  • Gender: Male
  • Why Not a Handi?
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2012, 12:09:03 PM »
Wonder why no attorneys have chimed in ?


Its because they are trying to get a parking spot, and waiting for the elections to get over with. Seems their buisness will pick up this year.  ;)




Lonny

Offline mannyrock

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2081
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2012, 01:21:55 PM »
   As further information, I would also point out that in most states, an expression of a mere "opinion" cannot constitute either libel or slander, only a statement of fact.
 
    So, if you were to say, "in my opinion, Mr. X sleeps with his mother every night," that would not be actionable.  You would have to state as a fact that "Mr. X sleeps with his mother every night."
 
    Morever, miscategorization or false statements about a candidate's political leanings or views might well never  be actionable, since virtually all such statements are immediatlely understood to be mere opinions.  So, saying something like "Governor Romney is a closet liberal" wouldn't be actionable, because given the context, it is understood to be an opinion, not a statement of fact.  The same with a statement like, "Senator Jones doesn't care about the poor."
 
  In the old days when reporters were professional journalists, with a clear code of ethics, reporters were very very clear when they expressed a personal opinion, because they were stepping outside of the role of journalism.  They would actually say, "This is just the opinion of this reporter, but I feel that ___________."   
 
      Perhaps the most famous example of this was in the late 1960s, when Walter Cronkite, the most trusted journalist in America, closed the evening news broadcast by saying, "Having covered the Vietnam War from the ground to the air for 8 consecutive years now, it is the opinion of this reporter that the War is unwinnable, and that both sides are stuck in a hopeless stalemate."
  This statement by Cronkite was hugely important, almost revolutionary, because for the first time, a  conservative trusted reporter stated his own opinion, without advance permission, that the War was lost.  It dramatically shifted middle America away from supporting the War and towards the opposition of it.
 
Best, Mannyrock
 
   
 
Mannyrock

Offline nw_hunter

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5202
  • Gender: Male
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2012, 03:12:08 PM »
Not sure I would call Cronkite a Conservative.
He did have some Conservative views as well as Liberal.He supported Bill Clinton during the Impeachment hearings.He supported the United Nations, The most horrendous Communistic organization ever. and was for limited world government. Not sure how one could have limited world Government.He, like Bush thought we should give up some of our freedoms to obtain this goal. He even said so! He may have been a Bush type Conservative (Neo) but certainly not a Goldwater (founders type) IMO!
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline mannyrock

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2081
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2012, 03:42:51 AM »
  TM7,
       Lawyers rarely take action against each other?   I'm sorry my friend, but you could not be more wrong.
 
        The practice of law in each state is governed by the State Bar Association, which is made up of lawyers.  The Bar Association is responsible for setting the standards (and fully enforcing) the rules for admission of lawyers to practice law, and the sanction and disbarment of lawyers for misconduct.  The Bar is unique, in that it is totally self- policing.
 
       Every Bar Association has a special committee, generally called the Ethics Committee, which is responsible for investigating ethical complaints and complaints of wrongdoings against attorneys.  These complaints are filed by other attorneys, as well as members of the public.  These Committees are extremely active, and hold hundreds of hearings every year, in every state.  Each lawyer is bound by a specific, written code of professional ethics, adopted in each state, which is very long and very detailed.
 
   At the end of each year, the Committees issue an official report, giving all of the numbers of how many complaints they received, how many hearings  they held, how many lawyers were disciplined by censure, suspension and disbarment.   All of this is totally public information, and you can go to the offical websites and see these reports.
 
    If you go look at the reports, you will probably be very surprised to find that in every state, hundreds of hearings are held every year, and hundreds of attorneys receive sactions of  censured, suspension of licenses and permanent disbarment.   
 
   Unlike Doctors (who rarely if every testify or filed complainst against each other), attorneys are very rigorous in this self-policing.   The reason is, that it makes it very difficult to properly practice law if other lawyers in your town are violating the ethical rules or engaging in misconduct.
 
   Hope this helps.
 
Mannyrock
 
     
 
       

Offline dukkillr

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3428
    • The Daily Limit
Re: Question for attorneys
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2012, 04:01:32 AM »
DUK. Snipe?? You hold the bag, I'll run em to ya. POWDERMAN. ;) ;)
I've always thought that old gag about snipe hunting did a real disservice to what is actually a fantastically fun bird to hunt.  Here's a few we killed after we limited out on ducks a while back...  Not at all uncommon to have a pretty good snipe hunt early in the duck season before it gets cold.
 
Thanks Mannyrock for taking the time to write a complete and correct response.