Shorter barrel FA 97?

[HGunner]

My FA's are 5.5" and 6" long and I really like 'em.  The 5.5" seems about perfect to me for hunting but I am considering another 44 special or 45 colt with a shorter barrel for general field carry and "less serious" hunting after the freezer is filled   I would love to hear your experience (likes or dislikes) with the shorter barrels.  I am leaning toward a 4.25" barrel and possibly the round butt option.


Thanks,
HGunner

[mdlfork]

Hello HGunner,

My favorite carrying handgun of all time is my 97 .45 Colt with 4.25 inch barrel.  Carried in a good high ride hip holster you hardly know it's there.  It wouldn't be my first choice as a dedicated hunting handgun but for hiking, backpacking, fishing, rafting, flying and just about everything I do here in Idaho it's my #1 choice.  In .45 Colt it can be  very versatile, it can be a nice plinker or it can be a LOT of power in a small package.  As for the rounded grip frame I think that is a question you will have to answer yourself, I tried both and found the rounded grip wasn't for me, it just felt wrong in my hand, I know others who love it.  Enjoy your quest.

Mike

[HGunner]

Sounds like you have a lot of experience packing your 97.  Is your 4.25" 45 colt otherwise standard or did you get any options -- if so what do you think of them?  Are you using the FA high ride holster?  What's your favorite load?


Thanks!
HGunner

[mdlfork]

HGunner,

The only options on my 97 are ivory micarta grips, which are really nice, and an action job, also very nice.

The strong side high ride belt holster by Freedom Arms is the one I use.  I also use a Double D Leather (Wasilla, Alaska) Guides Choice chest holster when carrying a backpack or wearing chest waders or when ever the belt holster get in the way.

My most carried load is an LBT WFNGC 265 gr. bullet with enough 2400 to get about 1000 fps.  For a heavier load the 300 gr. WFNGC at about the same speed (pretty frisky too).  I have also used the Hornady 250 & 300 gr. XTP's with good results.  I am not looking for max velocity so I don't use H-110 in the 97, I use mostly 2400 & HS6.

[HGunner]

That gun and holster combo sound pretty much perfect to me!  Have you posted a picture of it anywhere?  Is that the Cast Performance bullet you're using?

[HGunner]

Anybody else packing a shorter barreled 97?  I'd like to hear your experience!

[97shorty]

(Older thread here but I had to jump in) - my first FA was a 97 with 3.5-inch barrel in .357 magnum, with cylinders for 38 spl and 9. Not a hunter here, just love a quality revolver. I ended up selling it - at the time because I thought the short barrel and fixed sights were contributing to my inaccuracies - and eventually replaced it with a 97 .357 with 5.5-inch barrel and adjustable sights (again have both optional cyls), standard grip. Beautiful gun, love the accuracy.

Very recently I got the short-barrel bug again, especially with an interest in getting into handloading. I also want my FA to be as packable as possible. Almost convinced myself to carry it for defense because I desperately want the FA97 to be my only/one gun for all my purposes (defense, target, plink, trail) but in the end decided a better approach could be to carry two: a lightweight dedicated J-frame double-action for defense, and short-barrel FA97 for everything else. It would also be on hand as backup for the J-frame, providing another six shots if needed (with a little more punch, too).

It's been a real tough call between 3.5 vs. 4 or 4.25-inch barrel, but two days ago I placed the order for a Model 97 in .357, this time with only the optional 38 spl cylinder. Decided against the 9 because of the difference in bullet diameter, and I want to eventually settle on two (or even one) cartridge. Since one of my goals is to be able to pack this all the time, I did all I could to reduce weight and size: 3.5-inch barrel, rounded butt/grip, and even the flutes on both cyls. The flutes may also help "stretch" the overall look, compensating a bit for the stubby short-barrel look. I chose the bulkier adjustable sights to help compensate for the short sight radius. It's also easier to remove the sights and replace them with something lower profile than it is to add sights to a fixed-sight FA97. To make it even a little more oddball I went with evergreen grips.

Now I need to sell my FA97 5.5-inch. Freedom says it's an 8 or 9 month wait for delivery. Plenty time to find a new home for my current FA and to develop an ideal load for the new shorty.

In the interest of simplicity I want to try to get a single load for most purposes: something that's powerful enough to bring a smile to my face at the range, or to defend against animals on the trail, yet pleasant to shoot. I don't want to routinely shoot full house magnums at the range. I'm thinking I"ll focus on either a 38+P or a downloaded magnum (latter may help avoid crudding on 38 cyl too). It will take some experimenting to determine which of these works best. I also want a load that will give me the longest life out of the gun (minimal gas cutting etc.) while still serving my purposes.

At the moment I'm leaning towards a 158 gr LSWC cast bullet in a .357 case, downloaded to something around the feel of a 38+P. From there I'll try for the most accurate load I can get at distances of up to 25 yards.

Comments/suggestions welcome.

I'm especially interested in the tradeoffs among 3.5-inch, 4-inch and 4.25-inch barrels. I like the packability factor of the 3.5-inch, and if I went with 4 or 4.25 it starts to look like everyone else's revolver, but what are your thoughts?

Also curious why Freedom offers 4.25 as standard, rather than 4 - is there a reason, for example ejector rod clearances? 4.0-inch seems to be more of a standard test barrel length on ballistics charts, etc. If there are good enough reasons to go with 4.25 over 3.5, there's plenty time to change my order, so speak up. I could always start with 4.25 and have it cut back down to 3.5 if I really wanted to, but you can't easily go the other way. How much weight difference are we talking between 3.5 and 4.25 inches? This will be my last (and only) Freedom Arms, so I want to make sure I get it right.

[97shorty]

HGunner, I meant to mention - when I had my original 3.5-inch, with round butt option, one thing that really struck me was the comfortable handling. In particular, I found the round butt fit my hand much better than the standard (plow?) grip, and the overall balance of the gun felt perfect. It wasn't just "yeah now that you mention it, it does feel comfy" - but rather, I noticed it right away on my own. Obviously this is a very subjective thing but for me, the balance and comfort was perfect. I even pointed it out specifically when I showed the gun to a friend. I love my current 5.5-inch M97 with standard grips, but the 3.5" rounded wins - for me anyway - in terms of balance and comfort. Just feels much handier.

[HGunner]

Hi Shorty,


I've had the opportunity to handle and shoot the round butt and it is very comfortable and shootable.  I think it would be my preference for a packing/trail gun but I still like the full size grip for a hunting gun.  I'm curious how your 9mm cylinder works.  What kind of accuracy do you get?  How does the accuracy compare to the 357 or 38 cylinders?


HGunner

[97shorty]

I'm curious how your 9mm cylinder works.  What kind of accuracy do you get?  How does the accuracy compare to the 357 or 38 cylinders?

I usually take photos of my targets after each session with the M97, but for some reason I can't find any recent pics of the 9 mm targets. I'll take a trip to the range tomorrow (Mon.) and shoot some 9 mm, 38 spl and 357 mag and will be glad to share the results. Will probably do only 6 rounds of each (hey it's cold up here!), both off-hand and bench rest, but it may give you some idea of relative accuracy from my specific rounds. Obviously there are lots of variables at play (bullet weights etc.) and keep in mind I'm no expert shooter, but at least it will be the same non-expert behind all three calibers.

From memory, I don't recall the 9 mm being significantly more or less accurate than rounds from the 38 or 357, except that the 357 may have a bit of an edge (at least in my (very rough) tests from 38 vs 357).

One thing I noticed is that my 9 mm cylinder is noticeably cleaner than my 38 or 357, for whatever that's worth.

Check back tomorrow for results.

[jfo4]

I have a 4.75" 97 with round butt, flutes, and an action job.  Added K. o'neils front sight and its easy my most favorite .45 colt I own.


If I was to do it again I'd get the serial number placed so that bowen could lighten the frame and scallop the recoil shield and loading gate, and get the ivory micarta grips.


In the end I'd like a 4.75 fixed sight gun with dovetail front sight and a 5" gun with adjustable sights.  One purpose built for hunting, the fixed gun for carry.


JO

[97shorty]

Okay, as promised, results from today's quick trip to the range to shoot 9, 38 spl and 357 mag from the Model 97 with 5.25-inch barrel and premiere grade iron adjustable sights (Note: not sighted in). I did six rounds of each offhand at 25 feet, and 6 rounds of each on a rest (front support only, is 'bench rest' technically incorrect?') at 50 feet. In 9 mm, I shot both 115 and 147 gr. Total of eight targets in all, six rounds per target. Conditions were no wind, 26 deg F.

Please note I'm not an expert shooter and my F.A. has under 300 rounds through it, and this isn't really meant to be a very scientific test - it's just a quick session at the range... take it for what it's worth.

In short, I was pleasantly surprised at the results for the 147 gr 9 mm with offhand shooting. This was the last thing I expected. So HGunner, to answer your question, apparently the 9 mm cylinder precision is pretty decent, at least from this test. As far as accuracy goes, looks like the 147 gr happened to be a pretty good match for the unadjusted sights.

Note that offhand tests were at 25 FEET and bench tests were at 50 FEET.

9mm 115gr offhand:



9mm 115gr bench:



9mm 147gr offhand:



9mm 147gr bench:



38 spl 130gr offhand:



38 spl 130gr bench:



357mag 158gr offhand:



357mag 158gr bench:

[97shorty]

I'm still a little uncertain about my choice of barrel length - having second thoughts about the 3.5, considering going with 4.25 despite the extra length making the gun less packable.

I called F.A. today and they explained the reason for 4.25 being offered as the shortest standard barrel length. If I understand correctly, one of the main reasons is that it's the shortest length that allows the ejector rod full travel when ejecting spent cases. This could be an important consideration if a quick reload is needed. With a 3.5 inch barrel, the ejector rod bumps the spent cases out only ever so slightly from rear of the cylinder, making extraction a little more fiddly.

Even with the (now standard on 3.5" barrels) crescent-shaped cutout in the ejector tab, this limitation still exists on extraction. The purpose of the cutout is to allow you to remove the cylinder for cleaning or swapping without having to remove the ejector tube assembly - nothing to do with case extraction.

Obviously the 4.25-inch barrel has the advantage of giving a 3/4-inch longer sight radius over the 3.5-inch barrel, which likely improves a shooter's (not the gun's) accuracy. And the 4.25 will offer increased bullet velocity over the shorter barrel as well.

All this comes at the expense of reduced carry comfort (weight, size). Very high on the priority list for this M97 is ease of carry.

On the other hand, ordering it without the shortened barrel is $316 (plus tax) cheaper and I can always send it back to F.A. to have the barrel shortened if 4.25 inches doesn't work out for me.

After looking at many photos of 3.5 vs 4.25 barrels, I think I'm talking myself into a 4.25.

[97shorty]

I called F.A. today and they explained the reason for 4.25 being offered as the shortest standard barrel length. If I understand correctly, one of the main reasons is that it's the shortest length that allows the ejector rod full travel when ejecting spent cases.

I believe the 4.25 inch length was also chosen because it's the shortest barrel length that causes no interference with the cylinder pin. On the 3.5 inch barrel, for example, a crescent shaped cutout is added to the ejector tab so it clears the cylinder pin, but even then it sounds like the 4.25 approach is a little less fiddly in operation.

I hope I'm getting this all right - F.A. can correct me if I'm not.

Also, please don't take my above target photos as indications of typical FA97 accuracy (except maybe that tight group with the 147 gr 9mm!). Cold day, quick test, iron sights not adjusted, middle-aged eyes... I'm sure there are far better examples. I just wanted to show relative precision across cylinders from this same shooter, and of course bullet weights and construction were varied.

[97shorty]

Back to the range to try factory 158 gr lead rounds in 38 spl with the Model 97 in 5 1/2 inch barrel. Until now I used jacketed ammo, but think I'm going to start feeding the '97 heavy lead from now on. I was not disappointed at the results from 25 feet offhand. The 97 is capable of so much more, of course, but this is a good start. Again, adjustable sights not sighted in. Fourteen rounds all on target. This may be a wide group for most of you but for me it doesn't suck and I left the range happy.

[97shorty]

Well it's official, my 5 1/2 inch M97 is on its way back to Wyoming to get its barrel cut to 4 1/4.

I really love the compactness and handling of the 3 1/2 but what finally sold me on the 4 1/4 was

. it's a good blend of compactness, accuracy and velocity
. it's cheaper than selling this one and buying a new gun in 3 1/2
. 4 week wait for gunsmithing is better than 8 or 9 month wait for new gun
. 4 1/4 maintains full-travel ejector rod
. if I still want more compact, I can always send it back later

The only downsides I see:

. carry factor isn't as great (3/4 inch difference compared to 3 1/2 barrel could be significant)
. if I have to send it back to get it cut down to 3 1/2, it's additional cost

As much as I love the 3 1/2, for some unexplained reason I'm just not 100 percent comfortable with it yet. I may very well get there. Wish I could have both.

In addition to the barrel chop, my '97 will have flutes added to all three cylinders (357, 38, 9) and get the Winewood grips/butt rounded, and I've also ordered a set of rounded Evergreen grips.

[HGunner]

No problem with the 9mm accuracy that I can see.  Thanks for posting!  The 4.25" round butt modification to your FA should be great!  I've handled that 3.5" and I like the 4.25" better.  You'll get less blast from the 357 too.  Food for thought:  I have a convertible with one fluted and one smooth cylinder.  I like that I can tell quickly which cylinder I'm grabbing.  Of course, that idea doesn't work as well with 3 cylinders

[dbriannelson]

I walk on trails and off in the Black Hills every day. A rutting bull elk startled my dog (me too) last year, and made my 1911 seem sorta little. The next  day I started packing a 3 5/8" Forkin Custom Blackhawk .44 Special with Keith strength loads. When a 5 1/2" FA 97 in .45 Colt showed up at the local shop I bought it, built a strong side hip holster and after developing some whomping loads, started carrying it.

Didn't like the length. When worn high enough to be comfy, I had to be a contortionist to get it unlimbered. Riding low meant I'd have to take it off when returning to town, to avoid offense. It went into the safe for awhile, then off to David Clements to be shortened to 3 1/2", rounded, and generally slicked up so it wouldn't pull so much leather.



Now sporting express sights and with seriously thinned grips it's always on my hip, woods or town. The homemade holster has been replaced by an EP Saddlery "Double Agent," which puts it in the same location and has the added benefit of converting to cross draw for long road trips.

I'm old and half blind (thus the dog), but can stay inside six or seven inches at 25 yards offhand with a load that spits 260-grainers at 1100 fps. I figure that's enough for horny elk or anything else out here.

Just picked up (OK, ordered and waited six months for) a .44 with the 4 1/4" barrel. Forty-four is a better round for this revolver. Fancy leather coming eventually. Probably won't actually carry that one as much as the .45 though. Three and a half is a lot handier, even though the ejector housing has to be pulled to remove the cylinder for cleaning.

[HGunner]

Thanks for your post!  Very informative.  I look forward to hearing how you like your new one.  What grip frame, grips did you get on the 44?

[zac0419]

Very cool. I've toyed with the idea of shortening my 5.5 inch 97. I need to shoot it more to make sure. I wouldn't go shorter than 4.25 but that's just me. And oh yeah I'd round the butt too.

[dbriannelson]

I ordered the .44 with round butt and ivory micarta grips. For me all FA grips are too fat at the bottom. If I keep it, there's some sandpaper in its future.




Edit:

Before



After



(Still some work to do, but it's getting there.)

[Groo]

Groo here
 Since you have a 38spec cylinder, why not load a Keith 170 gr swc [the original long nose] in 38 case under a Keith loading.
 Not quite a magnum but still effective and long enough to not fit in the J frame.
 All using cheaper brass!

[HGunner]

I like the looks of your thinned grips.  I've considered taking some of the flare out of my black micarta grips.  What are you using to do the thinning?  How do you get your final finish?  Is it tough to get a nice result?


Thanks,
HGunner

[dbriannelson]

First off, when you go this thin, you break through to the positioning pin holes in the grips. As they are deeper than necessary, I suppose one could fill them with wood putty or something. I let them show.

I used sandpaper on the unmounted grips. Laid the flat side on the bench so there was no chance of altering the edges where they met the frame. Started with #120 to remove material. If I'd had #80, probably would have been faster. Lots of elbow grease and sawdust, but they came out pretty good. #400 paper to finish seems right, but I used #800. There's no need for varnishes or stains, and the bit of color unevenness I got by breaking the slightly yellowed surface of this material evened out the first shooting session.

I don't have a revolver with black micarta, but the ones I've seen look like they could polish up quite a bit better just using #800 or jeweler's rouge and a bore patch.