356 win dilemma

[revbc]

Really not that much of one, just thought I would brag on the new rifle.  Seems to shoot anything fairly well.  Kinda hard to decide which group is the really the best, and what is shooter error.

Range report:

[tacklebury]

Very Nice.    Cannot complain about those.

[bucmeister]

Those are some fine looking groups.  What chambering did your 356 start life as?  I am planning to alter my 35 Rem at some point in the future.
I presume these are 100 yds and that the figures in the mid 2000's are your velocities, looks like a lot of consistency.  Got that 180 moving along. 

[petemi]

That's funny Bobby, cause I think my GOOD groups are the result of shooter error    I've got lots of SSPs for the Maxis, but never loaded any for the .356.  I've been shooting about the same as you're showing with the Hornady Interlock 200 gr. PSP.  Hornady rates this bullet at 1800 to 2900 fps. muzzle velocity which is more in line with the velocity I'm shooting.  The SSP is from 1600 and maxes out at 2400.

Pete

[cwlongshot]

That's funny Bobby, cause I think my GOOD groups are the result of shooter error    I've got lots of SSPs for the Maxis, but never loaded any for the .356.  I've been shooting about the same as you're showing with the Hornady Interlock 200 gr. PSP.  Hornady rates this bullet at 1800 to 2900 fps. muzzle velocity which is more in line with the velocity I'm shooting.  The SSP is from 1600fps and maxes out at 2400fps.

Pete

BINGO Peter!!!



I have shot a number of deer with it from the Maxi at nearly hair singing ranges. I also shoot at bones, I have never lost a deer with it, BUT I have had no exits! That means the bullets integrety is beginning to be suspect at 2300 on bones!!

Of coarse, its fine for paper targets at most any velocity.

I know we LOVE these SSP bullets.... BUT REMEMBER the name.. SINGLE SHOT PISTOL BULLET.. They are designed for rifle bullet preformance form short barrels... The work so well in the Maxi in a rifle barrel because the maxis ballistics are smack square into the designed vel range... Switch to the Speer 180FP and have no worries!!

CW

EDIT,  Good shooting Bob!! 

[quickdtoo]

Nice shootin Bobby!!  I agree with CW, the Speer 180gr would be my first choice above 2400fps(hornady's max muzzle velocity for the SSP), there's neglible difference in the BC of the two, .248 for the Hornady and .245 for the Speer.

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/35-Cal-.358-180-gr-SP-Single-Shot-Pistol/

http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=116

[bucmeister]

There is always a trade off between energy transfer to the animal and penetration because any bullet that exits the animal takes whatever ftlbs is left with it whereas the bullet that does not exit puts every bit of that ftlbs into the animal.  I think what we are all looking for is the bullet that holds together and just barely exits so as to leave a blood trail while expending as much of the ftlbs as possible into the animal.

The Barnes I shoot in my '06' is a good case in point, it wastes a lot of energy by zipping through most all deer and rarely knocks them down, but they usually are within 50 yds and it is not problem following the blood trail.  Used to shoot the Sierra 165 BTHP Gameking which seldom exited but usually dropped them, however it tended to shed it's jacket way to easy.   

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

There is always a trade off between energy transfer to the animal and penetration because any bullet that exits the animal takes whatever ftlbs is left with it whereas the bullet that does not exit puts every bit of that ftlbs into the animal.  I think what we are all looking for is the bullet that holds together and just barely exits so as to leave a blood trail while expending as much of the ftlbs as possible into the animal.

The Barnes I shoot in my '06' is a good case in point, it wastes a lot of energy by zipping through most all deer and rarely knocks them down, but they usually are within 50 yds and it is not problem following the blood trail.  Used to shoot the Sierra 165 BTHP Gameking which seldom exited but usually dropped them, however it tended to shed it's jacket way to easy.   

if you really think about this, and refer to other cartridges, you'll see that fluids and hydraulics don't follow that line of thinking...     Think 257Weatherby, and a  light Barnes TTX

[jeepmann1948]

Bobby, I think the bullets you are using right now are going to create a big problem for you! Any thing you hit with them in the proper place is going to be very Dead Right There! This is going to mean that the fun of the hunt is over and the work begins.
I would much rather have a bullet expend all its energy inside the animal than have enough left over to exit and  leave a blood trail to follow for ? to ? yards.
 Here in Texas we learn very quickly to anchor our game in its spot.Trailing a critter thru the 95 or so types of cactus,mesquite thorns,draws (some folks call them canyons)with sudden drop offs and the occasional p*ssed off rattlesnake and fire ants is enough to make a grown man cry and take up crocheting!
 As well as it is shooting I hope you have a nice sharp knife and lots of freezer paper

[revbc]

Thanks guys for the compliments. 

Buc my barrel started as a 35 rem and I hand cut the chamber without any machinery, you gots to be careful and slow.

Pete and CW, your good advice is well taken and I have a fair hunting load for the 200 gr spire point.  I think the 180 will work well though at around 2500 with the 356.  Shot a nice 200+lb 7pt with the maxi and a 180, it hit a wide part of a rib and did not exit.  However I believe if it would have been the 356 with more energy it would have, at least some part of it.

Did kill with one shot though.

[cwlongshot]

Thanks guys for the compliments. 

Buc my barrel started as a 35 rem and I hand cut the chamber without any machinery, you gots to be careful and slow.

Pete and CW, your good advice is well taken and I have a fair hunting load for the 200 gr spire point.  I think the 180 will work well though at around 2500 with the 356.  Shot a nice 200+lb 7pt with the maxi and a 180, it hit a wide part of a rib and did not exit.  However I believe if it would have been the 356 with more energy it would have, at least some part of it.

Did kill with one shot though.

It IS a fine line...

IF you have NO WORRIES of lost meat, this combo may be fine.  Just avoid big bones and you will likley find your experience is the rule and explosive expansion and DRT performance.

I am careful to say energy transfer and energy dump... What I WILL say, is I want expansion near 2X bullet diameter and I want bullet exits. Two holes produce twice the blood trail. If you use a adaquite loading, along with a good proforming bullet and surgucially place that bullet. You will get one shot DRT stops EVERY TIME.

IMHO, relying on light bullets at top velocities, will work and it will work if your shot is a little off the mark. BUT hit a big bone in a big animal and you may NOT get the results you want. Talk that same "ultra magnum" and shoot the lungs and you may get the same DRT's but IMHO NOT with the same consistancy.

I am a firm believer in big (er) bores. starting st the 32's combined with heavy for caliber bullets. Where I hunt, its close ranges where I can make those presice shots. So I shoot for bones/ I like a base of the neck and I love the high shoulder shot.

I cut my teeth shooting a 8MM Mauser and later a 358 Winchester. In the Mauser I loaded the Hornady 170RN at about 2800fps in the 358 it was a 200 Hornady @ 2500fps. Of the first dozen deer I shot NONE took more than a step after impact. Most where dead before hitting the ground.

Bobby,
 Your 356 with those 200s at 2500 fps will work as good as anything you have used and I'll bet better than most!! I have a super accurate loading with a 200RN BUT I want to use a 220g Speer.

CW