Subsonic Loads with Trail Boss... What are yours???

[hoytcanon]

The .300 Whisper/Black out craze got me interested in centerfire subsonic loads... My .300 BLK went to the range with me one afternoon and left with another dude.... and I had $250 more than I paid for it in my pocket... he may regret that impulse buy...
At any rate... I started messing around with Trail Boss... thus far I have not veered far from the blazed trail... here are the loads I've tried;
.223 Rem with 55 gr NBT and 4 gr TB for 1065 fps
.30/30 Win with 160 H-FTX and 7.5 gr TB for 1075 (ish)
.308 Win with 165 H-SST and 9 gr TB for 1095
What I would really like to do is find the load that carries the most energy at a subsonic level... I have to pick up some HEAVY bullets and get to work... any of you folks already "hoed this row..." what worked for you???

[Jimbo47]

Trailboss seems to work really well in pistol caliber and straight walled rifle cased calibers.
I like it in my 45-70 with a  405 gr. LFP over 13.0 grains of TB @ 1007 fps max load.   
 

[hoytcanon]

Trail Boss seems to work really well in pistol caliber and straight walled rifle cased calibers.
I like it in my 45-70 with a  405 gr. LFP over 13.0 grains of TB @ 1007 fps max load.

Thanks... I have a .44 Mag barrel on the way... I will see if I can work up a subsonic load with 300 grain bullets out of the 18" shorty .44... anyone have a starting point for this load?
Your .45/70 TB load nets 912 ft/lb's... what a great short range brush deer load! Sweet... I wonder if 14 grains would get the velocity up around 1050-1070 still run subsonic with a tad more energy... @ 1070 fps you would net 1030 ft/lb.

[thejanitor]

 160 gr wad cutter, .38 special case.  3.1 gr trailboss.   ours shoot this so well at 15 yds you can shoot a chipmunk in the eye, and at 100 yds it is 16 inches lower than a .357 mag hunting load but it had a 3 inch group. Which is fun for plinking.   thejanitor

[hoytcanon]

160 gr wad cutter, .38 special case.  3.1 gr Trail Boss.   ours shoot this so well at 15 yds you can shoot a chipmunk in the eye, and at 100 yds it is 16 inches lower than a .357 mag hunting load but it had a 3 inch group. Which is fun for plinking.   thejanitor

I don't have a .357, but I will use the Trail Boss formula to calculate my starting load for the .44 and the .30/30 with a heavier bullet. I also want to use the TB loads for .223 for small game when we are out wolf hunting... with our mil-dot scopes... it is just a matter of finding which dot is on target at 10-30 yards... that is what the range is for... another excuse to go shooting!

[ncloader88]

Just worked up a load for my new 444 barrel, 15.8 grains under lee 310grain cast.  Not sure of the fps but the accuracy is great.  tried it on a 7inch thick poplar and it zipped right through    I think I have my woods gun

[thejanitor]

I have a load for 44 mag 240 gr at home too with Trail boss but it is not as slow as the .38 special load I posted. I will try to look and send it to you. 
I even got some 65 gr bullets for the hornet and trail bossed them.... But it was way louder than the 38 spec. and wasn't as slow as I had hoped.   thejanitor

[gcrank1]

Hodgdon lists reload data online for a few calibers using TB, giving a start load and a top load (100% load density?). My 38Spl. is using 3.6 gr. TB under a 162gr. LRN for maybe 740ish in a revolver, but the top load listed of 4.2 will fill her up for sure and even in a carbine length barrel would probably be sub-sonic. I would guess my revolver load would go 850, maybe 900 in a carbine, about like a rook rifle load of days gone by.
BTW, Im loving this powder for cast bullets (Im not a jacketed shooter)!

[thejanitor]

My 44 mag Trail boss load with cast 240 gr bullets is 6.0 gr., this is a great youth load and fun for plinking but I do not think it is sub sonic, It is quite a bit louder than the .38 special load I listed above. My loads may not be right for your bullets/case if you are seating bullets too deep or out far. Check to make sure you are not compressing, and no less than 70% to the base of the bullet. Trail boss is a fun powder to work with BUT read about it on the Trail Boss site so you are not just taking my word on it..... I love it for the 45-70 and all the pistol cartridges but when I tried it in my 30-30 it was not good... but I think the cast bullets I had were too small diameter, I did not understand that back then....
Hope this works for you, good luck, thejanitor

[mechanic]

I have worked up loads for every caliber I own, and have loaded up ample quantities.  All is well.  Now I read this post and realize I have several bottles of trailboss.  I also have gas checked bullets my Dad cast and sized years ago.  Now see what ya'll have done?
 
Ben

[dk17hmr]

I use 9.5gr of trailboss in my 30-06 with a 250gr cast bullet for 950fps.  Really quiet and hits hard.
 
My buddy and I loaded the 700wtf with a 1150gr paper patched cast bullet with 70gr of trailboss for about 1100fps....Im not sure you can get many more foot pounds than that and have a subsonic round. 

[hoytcanon]

I won't likely be loading any 1150 grain bullets (any time soon)... But I am pretty jacked to try the 300's in my .44, thanks for a baseline load Janitor... I will still work the TB formula before starting. I can see where TB would be excellent in the .45/70... And I ALWAYS have buying a .45/70 bouncing around in my head somewhere! Perhaps the time has come???

[clearwater]

I am more cautious about reduced loads with jacketed bullets. 223 with 6 grains of TB and
I got 2 bullets stuck in the bore.

[hoytcanon]

I am more cautious about reduced loads with jacketed bullets. 223 with 6 grains of TB and
I got 2 bullets stuck in the bore.

I've fired 100 rounds of .223 with 55 grain V-Max using only 4 grains of TB and had no problems at all... the groups were 2" at 50 yards... but there was a pretty good wind at right angles, and I suspect that this load is greatly affected by the wind... the horizintal stringing would seem to indicate so.

[hoytcanon]

I picked up 1000 rounds of 240 grain hard cast SWC bullets for $75 today... plus four bottles of Trail Boss... let the fun begin! According to the Hogdon website... 6 grains of TB behind a 240 SWC should net 828 fps in a pistol, I'm not sure how that will translate to an 18" rifle barrel in terms of velocity increase??? Likely, it will still be well under the sonic barrier... I will work up to the max velocity subsonic load and post the results.

[gcrank1]

I didnt chrony my 6.0 of Trail Boss under a250gr, 45Colt load, but it seemed softer than that in the Colt's Mdl. P clone 4 5/8" and  7.0 under 240 in the 44Mag Super Blackhawk 7/5" is what I consider a midish 44 Spl. equiv. in that revolver. Were I you I would start with 7.0 TB.

[hoytcanon]

I didnt chrony my 6.0 of Trail Boss under a250gr, 45Colt load, but it seemed softer than that in the Colt's Mdl. P clone 4 5/8" and  7.0 under 240 in the 44Mag Super Blackhawk 7/5" is what I consider a midish 44 Spl. equiv. in that revolver. Were I you I would start with 7.0 TB.

7.0 of TB was what I was thinking for a starting point... I will make up a dozen and increase by 0.5 grain to max, while shooting for groups through the chrony... I'll log velocities and group sizes and see what that nets. The goal is finding the most accurate subsonic load carrying the most energy...

[ironglow]

  I know I am a late comer here, but I bet somebody has an answer. 
   I would like to try some subsonics in my .44 mag CVA rifle, but I don't shoot cowboy action, so I have no TB on hand.  Can any other powder, such as 2400 or 4227 be used..or will the powder quantity be too small for dependable ignition?

[quickdtoo]

Here's some data for ya.

Tim

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[Dinny]

I am more cautious about reduced loads with jacketed bullets.

I second that! No sane man wants to drive a jacketed bullet out of his barrel. I have a post somewhere on here where I tested TB in my .243, 30-30, 30-06, 45-70, 45LC, 38 Spec, 357 Mag, and .357 Max. Most noted for their accuracy are the 400gr cast 45LC and 230gr cast .357 Max loads.

Thanks, Dinny

[Groo]

Groo here
 I have made TB loads for all my magnum handgun .
 357 -180 to 200gr , 41 with 215 gr, 44 with 240gr 475l with 325gr, [ all but the 475 were cast , that one berry..]
 My load id simple, full to the base of the bullet with TB [or a smug less] firm crimp ,and mag primers.
 The mag primers are because - although TB is somewhat fast burning, there is a great amount of empty space in the case[unlike other powers]
 and you need some fire to get a good burn .
 That and a good crimp to ensure consistant pressures.

[Mike in Virginia]

Trail Boss was made so you could fill up big cases and not overload them. 
 
For me, I have found it to be the worst propellant for any caliber.  It fills up the case safely, but the benefits stop there.  Energy developed is sufficient for some chores, but no matter what caliber you use, you'll find Trail Boss to be the most inaccurate.  It's shoots nice and easy, and is plenty safe, but that's all it is.  It's a good propellant for beginners, but you'll never win a match using it, and you'll never develop anything close to the velocity your chosen caliber is capable of. 
 
Actually, I have come to despise the stuff.  I don't do the cowboy action silliness, and I don't want a weak round from a gun that is capable of more.  If I want less energy for whatever reason, I go to a different caliber. 
 
Mostly, by use of Trail Boss has been fatter cases such as 45-70, 45Colt, and 44Spl.  In all of those, it was disappointing at best, accuracy wise. 
 
Just my experience and not meant to dissuade anyone from using it and liking it. 

[hoytcanon]

It fills up the case safely, but the benefits stop there.  Energy developed is sufficient for some chores, but no matter what caliber you use, you'll find Trail Boss to be the most inaccurate...  but you'll never win a match using it, and you'll never develop anything close to the velocity your chosen caliber is capable of. 
 
Actually, I have come to despise the stuff.  I don't do the cowboy action silliness, and I don't want a weak round from a gun that is capable of more.  If I want less energy for whatever reason, I go to a different caliber. 

Mike, I think you have missed the point of TB... it was not intended to compete with powders that "excel for caliber..." It was designed to give consistent, repeatable ignition at lower velocities (hence lower energy)... it does that pretty well... since I started this post a few months ago, I have worked with TB extensively... I like it best in straight walled pistol and rifle calibers, .357, .44 and .45/70... but our plinking and small game loads in .223 and .30/30 as well as 7.62X39 have proven to be very accurate at close range (20-50 yards), which is where most clay pigeons and small game is taken... so I guess there are varying results. I work with reduced loads in bottle-necked cartridges using H4895 also... which is accurate at further distances.

[HWB13]

I have not herd any one talking about 500 smith loads.  I have not started reloading yet but when I do it will be good info to have.  Right now with factory loads it is about $3 a trigger pull.  So I should start sooner than later.

[ironglow]

Here's some data for ya.

Tim

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

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  Thanks Tim..much appreciated..

[gcrank1]

Mike, periodically someone posts like you that it doesnt meet their criteria, or needs, yet for each of those I seem to see quite a few more that are at least satisfied, and some very much so, as I am. Perhaps your standards of accuracy are more stringent than mine, though I have always found hits better than misses and good scores better than poor ones. I did a good stint at NRA Bullseye and was rated pretty decently and still generally hold my own against my peers; I say that not to just do some horn tootin' but to indicate that I am not unfamiliar with what decent accuracy in handguns is. My hits or scores with TB loads are still more dependent upon me as the weak link than the loads. Or, to put it another way, I cannot attribute the poor shots to the TB and I know more than a little about calling my shots as the trigger breaks; that is, the shots are going where it is pointed. My two best shooting buddies are 'Bob & Weave' though, and they are always with me at any shooting session.
IMHO, the biggest issue with cast bullet loads, is having the right dia. bullet (ie, throat dia.) and if that is right, mostly regardless of alloy, the primers, powders and velocities are many that will pitch them where you are wanting them to go.
The above is applicable to my rifle loads too. And my loads are not at the 'starting 70% powder puff loads either, but mostly 85-100% of capacity under the bullet of choice.
BUT, I fully understand that if something does not work for someone then use something else. Truly we have wonderful choices, or did before the run and hoarding, so use what you have confidence in. A big percentage of shooting is mental, and if you dont trust your equipment (and this includes loads) get some you can.
BTW, if you want to send me your unused TB I will be glad to shoot it up 

[twoshooter]

I don't use TB so I cannot attest to its performance, however, I never try to dissuade anyone from using what they are satisfied with. For the 500 S&W shooter though, I can tell you that I have had great luck with 10 through 14 gr of Unique and the 440 gr cast Lee, for light plinking loads, and my go to load is 20 gr of Blue Dot. I think if you have 2400, which I also shoot a lot of, try from 18 to 24 gr of the 2400 and a 440 gr or lighter cast bullet.
     As for silliness, firing a firearm period at something that is not  A: trying to seriously harm you or your property, B: is edible , could be classified economically at least as silly. Very few rounds are actually used in this manner and would put the mfgrs out of business. Lets hear it for silly. Otherwise we are just a group of dour, borderline paranoiac curmudgeons huddling in our man caves. I love hunting elephants. The probability that I will find one here in Missouri is pretty slim, however it gives me an excuse to take my gun for a walk.

[hoytcanon]

Two good posts... I don't own a 500SW but given that TB works very well in .357 Max, .44 Mag and .45/70, I would expect it to do well in the big 5 also.

[quickdtoo]

Spanky likes TB in the 500S&W.

Tim

The 500 is alot of fun and can be loaded to take everything from rabbits to grizzly bears. Recoil with hot loads is pretty stiff so a scope with lots of eye relief is a good idea. I shoot 370gr. cast bullets with gas checks over Trail Boss powder and can ring the 200 yd. gong all day long so don't think it's for close range only.
I had the barrel drilled and tapped for a set of Remington 700 sights. The Remington sights are alot better than the standard plastic sights they come with.



Spanky

[tacklebury]

Not TB, but my subsonic .223 load is a .45 gr. hp with 4 gr. unique.