Author Topic: .223 damage to 'yote pelts  (Read 1965 times)

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Offline loadmat

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« on: February 10, 2004, 04:38:13 PM »
I was visiting with the local gunsmiths today in search of the perfect 100-400 yard coyote gun (is there such a tool?).  Two said 22-250 was perfect - goes in and does not exit,  One said .222 Rem or .222 Rem. Mag. (he just happened to have both in stock-bolts),  One said 221 fireball (he could order me one for 500 bucks in 5 days!),  and one said he's been shootin' 'em for 25 years with a Type 10 short action Mauser 96 .223 using FMJ ammo, it's cheap, and he and has never messed up a pelt.  Fellas I gotta tell ya, I felt like I'd been car shoppin. Anybody have any inputs? :shock:

Offline whitedogone

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2004, 04:51:58 PM »
Any of the cal's that you listed will do a fine job on yotes.  The main difference between them is speed.  The .223 is somewhat slower than the rest.  It is also the most economical to shoot.  I limit myself to 250 yrd shots with my .223.  The 22-250 will shoot flater and has a little more range.  That said, the real limit as far as range would be the shooter.  A 400 yrd shot is a long way for most shooters.  As far as damage, I would think that any one tipped with a balistic tip  projectile would be fine.
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Offline scruffy

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2004, 05:03:25 PM »
I use the 223 for most of my yote hunting, but don't consider it a caliber for over 200 yards.  Maybe 250, but that's absolutely it.  Some like the 22-250 and 220 swift for longer ranges, but I just don't like that little 22 cal bullet at those 300 - 400 yard ranges.  Wind drift, margin for error, etc. are just not in the 22 cal's favor.  And most of the 22-250's and 220 swifts I've seen have longer twists like 1-12" so it won't stabilize longer larger bullets, so you're stuck with 55 grainers.

That said, I'd use a 243 or 25-06 for the long range stuff.  Both are as flat or flatter (depending on the load) as the 22-250 but carry alot more punch down range so you have a bigger margin of error.  Lets face it, we can't run out and put up wind flags, coyotes don't stand at exectly at 400 yards but more 377 yards, what's you bullet drop at 377 yards?  For that reason I think bigger is better for long range.

The 243 and 25-06 aren't as pelt friendly as a 223, but neither are the 22-250 or the 220 swift.

If I were you I'd get a 223 and have a limit of 200 yards.  Might sound restrictive but you'll get more coyotes in the long run.  Those longer shots are good coyote educators on hunters calling them in.  If a coyote comes into 300 yards and he doesn't bust you, but doesn't come any closer, and you show restraint and let him walk off, call him back in after 5 to 10 minutes, and he might come right in.  Or the next day, or the next week.  Miss at 300 yards, and you'll probably never call him in again.

These are just my humble opinions.  Just happen to be from experience.  I have a weatherby chambered in 270win for my long range work.  That rifle will shoot .5" moa at the range most everyday.  The easiest rifle I've ever shot to shoot accurately off a rest/bipod/bags/etc.  But I think that rifle has missed more coyotes than it's shot.  The old weatherby thunder stick (as I call it) was a really good educator to the coyotes.  Gave alot of coyotes their PHD....

Anyway, like many say, call them in close and shoot them.  And if you haven't called in a coyote to 10-15 feet away looking up your barrel with a puzzled look on his face followed by the look of "oh ...."  :eek: you haven't expienced the total rush that coyote hunting can give you!!!

later,
scruffy
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Offline bull b 25-06

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2004, 05:14:17 PM »
How are you guys doing?I think i remember someone saying that if you try pushing a ballistic tip bullet in whatever caliber you may have beyond it's effective range,that the ballistic tip after losing too much velocity will not have that explosive impact that you need for coyote(pelt)hunting. Man that was a long sentence! I guess what i am trying to say is do some research on caliber velocities at your desired maximum range. A b-tip that has slowed down to much will more than likely not open up properly and exit with a nasty ragged hole.Hope you pick a good smoke pole. my 2cents later bull b 25-06 :D
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Offline jeff223

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2004, 05:16:30 PM »
this guy fell to a handloaded 45gr VMAX.my son shot him at 90 yds and no exit hole.thats the nice thing about the light fast varmint bullets,they blow up most of the time.the hide was poor with little hair on the tail.to bad too because he wants a full body mount of a yote.

Offline whitedogone

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2004, 05:26:35 PM »
Be sure to check out this site for some good insight into yote chasing.

http://www.coyotecanada.ca/

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Beretta S686 Sporting 12g 30"
Beretta Silver Pigeon Sporting 20g 28"
Ithaca (SKB) Model 500 Skeet 28g 28"
Browning BPS Syn. 12g 3.5" 26"
Browning BPS rifled w/ Pentax 2x5x20
Tikka M595 in .223 w/ Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x40
Savage 93 in 17HMR w/ Mueller APV 4.5-14
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Offline 22KHornet

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2004, 04:13:06 AM »
I would probably stick with the 223.  It is cheap to shoot and will kill any yote you can hit with it and if you are going to try for those 400 yd shots :sniper:  on a little old yote while hiding under some brush will need plenty of practice.  Much more fun to have them crawl in there with you anyway :shock:
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Offline Wlscott

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2004, 04:51:21 AM »
I pretty much use the .223 for all of my coyote hunting.  I also don't necessarily put a restriction on how far away I'll shoot a coyote with a .223 (within limits), but won't usually shoot further than about 250 yards unless conditions are just right.  I will also say that I've had a lot of experience shooting the .223 (or 5.56mm if you prefer) at ranges out to 600 yards.  

As far as pelt damage goes......I've shot a lot of different bullets at coyotes through a .223, at different velocities.  My favorite bullet right now is the ballistic tip (Nosler 55 grain in the AR, and Hornady VMax in the Ultra).  

I recently loaded up some of the Nosler bullets for the AR.  The velocity was somewhat slower than what I was expecting (2900 fps instead of 3100 fps).  I did call in a coyote, and shot her at about 130 yards.  There was a small entrance hole, and a slightly larger (approx .30 cal sized) exit hole.  My theory is that the bullet didn't expand violently like it was designed due to the slower speed.  The same would probably hold true if you were to shoot at a coyote at longer ranges where the bullet would loose it's initial velocity.  BUT, I can live with a small exit hole that can be repaired.  

On the other hand I've seen coyotes shot with a .243 at 270 yards that were jellied on both sides.  I hate skinning coyotes that have that "blood pudding" effect under the hide on both sides.  

Having said alllllll of this, and with the understanding that I do enjoy long range sniping of coyotes.......

I also have to say that I agree with everything said on this string about the excitement, and adrenaline rush of calling them in close.  If I can get them in close, I will.  It's just too exciting watching them come in.  But if they hang up and the conditions are good, I will take a long shot.  Yeah, I've educated a few dogs, but if you change your tactics around a little bit, you can get those educated dogs too :grin:
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Offline handirifle

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2004, 06:00:25 PM »
loadmat
I'm new to shootin the dogs with 22's but the 243 IS a long range varmint gun, if you don't want to keep em.  Mine used an 85gr BTHP and at 250yds it left a fist sized hole.  NOT  PRETTY!  It was obvious that bullet had a long way left to travel when it hit a coyote.

I'm getting into the 22 market myself and am very interested in the answers you're getting.
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Offline scruffy

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2004, 04:16:03 AM »
On the bigger calibers like 243, 25-06, 270, 308, etc etc etc, that carry alot more energy than a coyote pelt can absorb you can use a controlled expansion bullet designed for penitration (deer bullet) rather than explosiveness (varmint bullet).  The controlled expansion bullet will give you an entrance and exit wound, but both are easily fixible.  The wound is consistant from 100 yards to 500+ yards.  And the rifle will kill at 100 yards or 500 yards equally well.

Kind of like with squirrels and the 22 mag.  If I shoot them with a cci solid some of the energy is tranfered to the squirrel, making a small .224 hole in, .224 hole out, and the bullet travels down range.  With a thicker jacketed HP (winchester silver box jhp) the damage is more, with a .224 hole in, dime size exit hole, with more energy transfered to the squirrel.  Then take the remington premier or win supremes with their explosive varmint designed bullets, .224" in, 2+" out.  Most of the energy is transfered to the squirrel causing extreme damage.

So, with any cartridge there are a couple things to keep in bullet selection.  1. how much energy does the bullet have, 2. how much energy you want transfered to the animal.  Using a vmax in a 22-250, 243, 25-06, or holy moly 270 and you dump all of it's energy into a coyote, or atleast try.  look at the following table comparing remington accutips:

-------------------------100 yds--200 yds--300 yds--400yds
223 50 grain -------927ftlbs--701ftlbs--522ftlbs--380ftlbs
22-250 50 grain--1188ftlbs-910ftlbs--689ftlbs--512ftlbs
270 130 grain---2335ftlbs-2009ftlbs-1721ftlbs-1467ftlbs

The 270 has more energy at 400 yards than the 22-250 has at 100.  A coyote can usually take a 927ftlb hit from a 223 at 100 yards if you don't hit bone.  So, at 200 yards the 22-250, with it's 910 ftlbs will do the same damage as a 223 at 100.

So, numbers wise, for pelt preservation I wouldn't put more than 1000ftlbs into a coyote and expect to have pelt.  If you do most of your shooting at 50 yards, get a 22 hornet.  Most of it at 200 yards, a 22-250.  At 600 yards, the 270.  This is for varmint bullets.

For controlled expansion bullets designed to penitrate, I don't think my winchester 270 130grain cpx1's have ever dumped more than 1000 ftlbs of energy in a coyote, so it works from 50 yards to however far I can hit him.  A 243, 25-06 are in the same class.  Same with a 7mm-08, 30-30, 30-06, 308, etc.

Even for a 22-250 a controlled expansion bullet isn't a bad idea for pelt preservation, although there aren't alot of 22 centerfire controlled expansion bullets to choose from, but there are enough you should be able to find something that works in your rifle.

All that said, my favorite coyote calling is with a 12 gauge.  I like the coyotes close and the shotgun is easy on the pelt (3" #2 hevishot).  But it's also the most challenging.

I hope this helps.

later,
scruffy
Hunting is 99% brain, 1% gun

Offline BIGBOREFAN

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2004, 04:35:48 AM »
I do not care about pelts I would just like to shoot one. :(  How about 158 grain XTP at around 2000 fps. That would be for close range work. :-D I finally get some descent weather and it's Valentine week end. Maybe Sat. I can get a chance to go. If I use my 223 UV I'll use the 45 grain bulk pack ammo from wally world.


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Offline bull b 25-06

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2004, 06:53:13 PM »
Trivia queston. Does anybody know who makes the BALLISTIC SILVERTIP?

later bull b 25-06
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Offline 22KHornet

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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2004, 02:44:28 AM »
Combined Technolgies.  It is a combination of Nosler and Winchester.  You will usally find them by the Nosler bullets in most magazines.  Good bullet, my dad got his first elk with a 7 BR at a ranged distance of 182 yds.  Bullet did not go all the way through but did dump all of it's energy in the elk for one dead elk :grin:
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Offline Big Blue

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2004, 01:43:06 PM »
There aren't many yotes here in my part of PA., but I was wondering how the Nosler Partition bullets would work on them. I know most deer shot here with them, all are found to have the bullet under the skin on the far side. Most of the shooting I do on varmints, is groundhog. It's funny, but they're real skittish around here. The long shots, are usually all you get. My best, was with a Rem. 700 .308 at 260 yards. All I could see was the top of his head, but the .308 took it off. It might be a bit rough on pelts though.
Don

Offline Wlscott

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2004, 06:11:46 AM »
The partition bullet will likely penetrate completly through a coyote.  But, it should leave a small exit hole that will be repairable.
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Offline thecowboyace

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.223 damage to 'yote pelts
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2004, 08:28:24 AM »