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Offline powderman

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Obama firm on raising taxes.
« on: November 09, 2012, 12:42:10 PM »
Obama holds firm to tax hikes as he invites Hill leaders to talks on 'fiscal cliff'  Published November 09, 2012
FoxNews.com     
  •    Nov. 9, 2012: President Obama holds up a pen as he speaks about the economy and the deficit in the East Room of the White House. (AP)
  President Obama, claiming his election "majority" was a vindication of his fiscal policy, held firm Friday to his intention to include tax hikes for America's top earners in any negotiations with Congress to pull the nation back from the so-called "fiscal cliff."
 
The president, in his first remarks from Washington since winning a second term, urged officials to "get to work" on the issue as he invited congressional leaders to the White House next week. He said he's open to "compromise," but did not appear to budge on what has been a central disagreement over the last two years -- whether to extend the Bush-era tax rates for everyone, or to let them lapse for households making more than $250,000.
"I refuse to accept any approach that isn't balanced," Obama said Friday. "This was a central question during the election ... and on Tuesday night, we found out that a majority of Americans agree with my approach."
 
"Our job now is to get a majority in Congress to reflect the will of the American people."
While Obama did not explicitly mention the $250,000 threshold, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney later said the president would veto any bill that extended the current rates for that group. Carney also announced that Obama will hold a press conference next Wednesday ahead of the meeting with Hill leaders.
 
Taxes for everybody are set to rise Jan. 1 due to the expiration of the Bush tax rates and other measures. That, combined with the triggering of automatic defense and domestic spending cuts, amount to what is known in Washington as the "fiscal cliff" -- an austerity blow so severe that a Congressional Budget Office report warned this week that it would cause a recession and drive unemployment up to 9.1 percent.
 
Officials in Washington, then, are scrambling to come up with an alternative plan that would avert the "cliff" while still pursuing a deficit-reduction package. But time is running out, and House Speaker John Boehner shortly before Obama's remarks called on the president to take the reins.
 
"This is an opportunity for the president to lead," Boehner said late Friday morning. "This is his moment to engage the Congress and work towards a solution that can pass both chambers."
Boehner had already telegraphed that he wants the president to be in the driver's seat on a deal, and not pass the tough decisions to Congress. "We're ready to be led," he said earlier in the week, shortly after Obama won re-election.
 
Boehner on Friday disclosed that he had a "short conversation" with Obama earlier in the week. After a year when Obama rarely met with Republican leaders on Capitol Hill, Boehner made clear that he expects more engagement in order to resolve the "fiscal cliff" crisis before the end of the lame-duck session.
 
The speaker was likewise holding firm to his demand that tax rates not go up, because many of those affected are small business owners. "Raising tax rates will slow down our ability to create the jobs that everyone says they want," Boehner said.   
Boehner, though, has said he's willing to accept "new revenue" -- perhaps by closing loopholes and other deductions -- as part of overall tax reform in exchange for serious entitlement cuts.
 
It is possible that this could be the entry point for some semblance of a compromise. Obama mentioned Boehner's comment Friday, saying he was "encouraged" that the speaker was open to exploring new revenue.
Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid, though, put out a brief statement Friday simply urging Republicans to come around to the Democrats' way of thinking.
 
"The sooner Republicans come to grips with this reality, the sooner we can forge an agreement to avoid the fiscal cliff and prevent a tax hike on middle class Americans," he said. "The Senate passed a bill to cut taxes for Americans making less than $250,000, and the House should pass it immediately. Our bill cuts taxes for small businesses. When Republicans talk about small businesses, they are really trying to protect millionaires like Donald Trump."
Reid's Republican counterpart, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, countered by saying "there is no consensus on raising tax rates."
Obama continued to emphasize Friday that he doesn't want a deficit-reduction plan to center on spending cuts.
 
"We can't just cut our way to prosperity," he said. "We have to combine spending cuts with revenue. ... That means asking the wealthiest Americans to pay a little more in taxes."
Boehner has suggested a "bridge" bill to avoid the "cliff" in the short term and allow for a bigger deal in 2013.
If Congress and the White House cannot reach any deal by the end of December, taxes will go up for everyone. According to the CBO, all the measures combined would shrink the economy next year by .5 percent.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/09/obama-holds-firm-to-tax-hikes-as-invites-hill-leaders-to-talks-on-fiscal-cliff/#ixzz2BluzJj00
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Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 07:59:48 PM »
The right just needs to accept it--- taxes on the top 2% are going to go up. If nothing else, all President Obama has to do is let the Bush tax cuts run out. Then, he will have a Democrat congressman introduce a new bill with tax cuts only for those making less than $250,000 a year, retroactive to when the Bush cuts expire. The Republican congress will have to go on record as either voting to lower taxes on the bottom 98%, or refusing to, unless they just abstain from voting. And, any of them that DON'T support it will be looking for a new job in two years. Time to play hard ball.
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

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Offline JonnyReb

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 04:23:51 AM »
 BRAVO GUYS, you two have it all figured out.:-).      On my end, i'm looking forward to the fiscal cliff, or increased taxes, so more businesses will be forced to let employees go, so they can't hire, so another recession begins, and unemployment goes through the roof. I think the libs can only be starved out. Without other peoples money they are helpless. I guess this countries going to have to be torn down before it can ever rebuild. :-)
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Offline dwalk

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 05:25:25 AM »
i think it is fair, and correct, to say, we all know there is a need for taxation (and the constitution gives congress the power to tax) however...the "Bone i have to pick" about the issue is this:
not that there is taxes...but it is the AMOUNT of taxes.
IMO it is NOT "fair" to tax one income bracket at a higher rate than another.
IMO, anyone who makes, in this current economy, less than $35,000.00 per year, or is over the age of 65, retired and has an income of less than $50,000.00 per year should NOT pay income tax period; state or federal. (this one, i'm not gonna debate about or 'defend'...it is my opinion...i believe it to be valid and sensible)
our tax code has become an evil, insatiable, ruthless, merciless, entity that WILL devour us all if not curtailed...period. think not? try to 'deal with' the IRS...if you OWN any property...you WILL pay...period...ask me how i know that...
the IRS IS barry's "Army"...he added 800 new agents for a reason...
this ploy of "Let the wealthy pay a little more in taxes" will NOT stop there; barry is applying Kenyan standards to who is "Wealthy"...for a couple to make $250,000 a year is NOT difficult in todays economy (in the United States)
if not controlled, it's concievable, that tax rates like France just intoduced, will arrive at the shores of America SOON...
 
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Offline JonnyReb

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 05:45:50 AM »
 My business, a small plumbing company, always grossed over 250k and as a sole propriator i'd end up bringing home 40-50k after deductions. Of this, i'd write a check to the IRS for about 12-15k every year, not including SS and state taxes. Its pretty tough to write a check thats basically a third of my take home, as it is for anyone at a similar tax rate. To think that those taxes are now going to increase because I fall into the higher bracket on my gross, makes it not worth persuing additional business or persuing the so called American dream. The result of doubling my healthcare premiums and increasing my taxes virtually insures I will not hire, spend unless I have too or even bother to try to earn my potential. Why bother if it will be taken with seemingly no return? This administration is definitively quelching the spirit of business people coast to coast and nothing good can possibly ever come from that. Kinda just makes you want to give up.  Jeff
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Offline powderman

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 06:20:29 AM »
LIKE if you agree it’s time President Obama approved the Keystone Pipeline.
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2012, 06:30:05 AM »
The title of this thread is wrong. It should have said, "Republicans in Congress willing to raise taxes now!"
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Offline JonnyReb

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2012, 07:35:47 AM »
 Maybe not TM, but according to my books keeper, I will have to re establish as a corporation or my gross sets my taxable rate. Perhaps I should have done this long ago but will have little choice now. In addition, the cost of obamacare(defined by the supreme court as a tax) will close to double my(our) healthcare cost. I guess the other devils will show themselves in the details.   J
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Offline boomerralph

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2012, 08:04:53 AM »
The 14th Amendment guarantees "equal protection" under the law. If o needs a tax increase, its time for the repubs to abide by the constitution and raise taxes on ALL Americans equally, (i.e. at the same rate).  Yes 100% of americans to pay tax to mitigate the federal debt.  This will be a new concept for the lower percentage who have never paid taxes.  Also scrap the earned income credit in the same bill. o will HAVE to refuse to sign into law.  Then who will be the obstructionist?  Of course if the earned income tax credit is scrapped there WILL be marches on Washington!
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Offline twoshooter

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 09:40:45 AM »
That is interesting T......most posters here make 250+ gross....hmmm. And file as individuals, not some form of corp ? That does not sound too swift to me..... and these are businessmen ?? My GROSS is 38K. Thank God my insurance has held reasonably stable and not doubled, but it has gone up and will go up more. I usually pay 500-600$ in combined state/ fed income tax. I pay twice that in taxes on my home. I pay SSA on 100% of my income. Since I must spend 90% plus of my net on expenses, I pay sales tax on a great deal of that also. So when I hear someone complaining about me not paying any TAXES ??????
     When I hear these people whining about how we should all be taxed the same, to me it is pretty counter-intuitive. It is like a bunch of people in a lifeboat, and the boat is sinking. There are some real skinny people..... some average..... a few chubby, and a couple of 600 pounders. Sooo..... the 600 pounders are saying....."we are rare people, there are not many like us- so throw out a dozen of the skinny guys instead".
     As I have said before, morality and ethics are not even considerations in the equation, any farmer knows....... you slaughter the fattest hogs first......
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Offline dwalk

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2012, 12:59:41 PM »
why not initiate a tax of 75% of any GROSS, over the poverty level, on income? that would seem "Fair would it not?
i have yet to hear a, reasonable, answer as to what makes anyone believe that high income earners should be taxed at a higher rate (percentages) that's discrimination against those income groups is it not? isn't discrimination illegal? simply saying "Well, they make more so they should pay more." is NOT reasonable, it's discriminatory, or acceptable as rational, it's perverted and convoluted thinking and reasoning.
the capitalist idea is what has kept this nation free, independant and wealthy since it's beginnings. remember: the land of opportunity. other wise, as proven time and time again, overtaxation leads to what? how many know the answer to that?
i do NOT begrudge those who work hard and honestly for what they have and do not wish to see them have to give up a larger portion for those who do not wish to work for what they have. i...that is WE...each and every one of us, have, or has had, the opportunity, to better themselves...(if a person is mentally, or physically handicapped, that's a whole different issue.) to say otherwise is to deny (lie) to ones self or, simply being untruthful.
if excessive taxation was the answer to this nations social ills and needs, then why is there so many privately funded such as The Wounded Warrior Project?
i notice one poster saying his gross income is 38k per year...i wish mine was that high.
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Offline Defoe

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2012, 01:17:11 PM »
If I were in the top 2%, I'd be heading for the Cayman islands to do a little house hunting.
I wouldn't stay here and hand it over to professional parasites.

in the cayman islands, they use your investments to CREATE JOBS...

Offline twoshooter

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2012, 01:49:33 PM »
Ok, explain this thing to me. Someone puts say 5 million in a Cayman account. Show me just how that guarantees job generation.
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Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2012, 02:23:18 PM »
The taxes for the top 2% ARE GOING TO GO UP. You either get on board with the bunch that wants yours to go up, too--- Republicans--- or you get on board with the bunch that wants to keep yours where they are--- Democrats. Those are the choices.
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

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Offline hillbill

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2012, 02:25:48 PM »
Ok, explain this thing to me. Someone puts say 5 million in a Cayman account. Show me just how that guarantees job generation.

the banks in the caymans invest the money in industry. money in industry creates jobs.would they invest here in the US? prob not if they smart.

Offline GeneRector

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2012, 02:27:44 PM »
 :)  Howdy! Since we have Obama for 4 more years, everyone that pays taxes needs to find ways to take advantage of every possible tax deduction and maximize whatever take home pay you can. What I am afraid of is that retirement accounts could be taxed and any inheritance or lottery win could be taxed at a very high rate. Finding ways to prosper over the next few years may be difficult. But we need to try!  Always, Gene
 
 
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Offline JonnyReb

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2012, 03:03:33 AM »
 No doubt TM, and G.R, if one is to remain viable and in business, they (me)will have to wise up and take advantage of every legal deduction possible, as well as restructuring as needed. Still, even if jumping such hoops keeps one in business, you in favor of such complications have to admit that such increased regulations will do nothing but continue to slow our economy. Give it a few years and you'll see.  J
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Offline twoshooter

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2012, 03:06:44 AM »
First, that sounds closer to my understanding of that also. The flat percentage rate works as long as the standard deduction at the bottom is sufficient. If there were no other deductions except for a per person 10K to 15K std deduction, then a flat tax, that could work .

Back to investment in the Caymans. NO. You put your money there, they do not "invest in industry". They can invest in poaching rhino horn to sell to idiots in china instead of viagra, or in travel agencies that take middle age priests and old white business men to Cambodia  to have sex with children, or "miracle treatments or surgeries" that they convince wealthy women will make them look young while it is more like spray painting an old Buick. They do not HAVE TO "invest" in something worthwhile, that will add value to the community, or the world. They can use $100 bills for toilet paper if they want to, just to show they can. I seem to remember (Paris Hilton I think?) complaining that she could not have an adequate birthday party for 500k. (They wanted to rent a bridge in NY City for the party) So , no, there does not have to be any jobs or "value" created. Those are created by people who only have sufficient money to buy things that are of concrete benefit, durable goods, commodities etc. Once you can afford to spend money not to benefit yourself, but just to the detriment of others, for your amusement, there is a disconnect there.
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Offline DDZ

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2012, 06:25:01 AM »
We/they have no choice but to raise taxes at this point despite narratives of idealogues. But you see Mr. CDQ most posters in these forums earn more than 250k/year.... ;)
.
Another idea for debt fearful folks is a Tobin Tax on those that caused the debt.
.
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..TM7

I think what was meant here is that posters in these forums that are against taxing rich people more, make more than 250K a year. I'm going to say your wrong, and that most posters here, just understand that heaping higher tax rates on the wealthy isn't going to help the governments debt problem, and only hurt our economy further.   

Maybe one of you can explain how giving more money to this government will make any difference at all.  See if you can do it without mentioning the word fair. 
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Offline tobster

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2012, 06:38:59 AM »
I noticed Obama said "Now lets get to work" as he prepared to leave on a trip to Asia.
 
 

Offline Dee

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2012, 06:44:35 AM »
Has Obama "ever" said anything any different on his wanting to raise taxes? I think not. So whats the point?
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Offline magooch

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2012, 06:59:27 AM »
If there is going to be a deal made by Congress, it is that for every dollar of new taxation, there should be $1 million in cuts in federal spending.  That might begin to put things right, but even then it would take a very long time to get back to sanity. 
 
Start the cuts at the top, by getting rid of those 747s and helicoptors that BHO is trying to wear out.  No more million dollar dinner parties for foreigners, or anybody else.  Everyone must do their part, but the politicians must lead by example.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2012, 07:22:03 AM »
Everyone is rantin about Obama. Everyone rantin pretty much knows what Obama is. So why rant? It's like ObamaCare! Oooooho No! What are we gonna do? If Congress doesn't fund Obama Care, it's a moot point. It's a law that just lays there.
Obama is as dangerous to our economy in that regard as Congress lets him be. All this other is "endless redundancy". Instead of worryin about what you already know, why not figure out what your gonna do next time?
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Offline lakota

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2012, 09:14:01 AM »
Obama is as dangerous to our economy in that regard as Congress lets him be.

I hold little faith in Congress so we are pretty well screwed.
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2012, 09:53:13 AM »
Right now, my wife earns money on stocks and bonds.  She pays 15% capital gains tax.  If Obama gets his way she will pay 20%.  This is a budget killer for us.  If she looses money, she has to spread the loss over 5 years, not the year it was lost.  This is stupid.  We are still reporting losses from 4 years ago.  So this can go on and on.  If capital gains were taxed at the same rate as income, and all rates lowered, the government would take in a little more money than it does now, but it would be fair all the way around. 
 
You Obamaites, watch the documentary 2016 Obama's America.  It explains what he is doing.  We have gone from No. 1 in manufacturing to No. 7 in the world, and still going downhill.  With the implementation of Obamacare more Americans will be working part time without insurance, so they have to get it through the government.  So long BC/BS, so long United Health care.  More dependency, more democrats. 
 
I lost $20,000 on my 401-k right after the election. 
 
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2012, 10:12:22 AM »
the liberals think a heavy tax on the top 2% will solve all our problems.  ain't gonna happen.
if you took 100% of their income it wouldn't make a dent in the defecit.
so tax'em and they'll take their money and JOBS and go somewhere else,  then what will the liberals do?  they'll shaft the remaining working middle class and make everyone LOW CLASS.
that's how they do folks and it's called socialism.

my wife makes the budget at her school every year and the one here at home, and guess what, if you curb spending, you end up with a surplus to spend on one or two cruises every year. ;D

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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2012, 10:18:00 AM »
Maybe the Republicans should let Obama have everything he wants.  Let the economy go in the tank.  Then at mid term we can blame him for his failed policies.  Republicans would take over the house and senate.  However, by then hyperinflation might kick in to cover the governments expenses and cause so much havoc in the economy and the country, we might never recover. 

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2012, 10:46:46 AM »
Maybe the Republicans should let Obama have everything he wants.  Let the economy go in the tank.  Then at mid term we can blame him for his failed policies.  Republicans would take over the house and senate.  However, by then hyperinflation might kick in to cover the governments expenses and cause so much havoc in the economy and the country, we might never recover.
it's scary to think about, but we may be in our death throes right now.
they are printing money as fast as the machines can run. and still borrowing.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2012, 01:00:19 PM »
A guy I know has 350 employees, full time. He said he will have to come up with an XTRA $500,000 a yr to pay for obummercare. He's thinking of quitting and retiring. Husseins plan is coming together. Thanks obama supporters. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Obama firm on raising taxes.
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2012, 01:47:53 PM »
Wharf Rat..if the 2% went to the Caymans or any other refuge; and didn't come back or allowed back...then in many respects we Americans would be better off
LOL,  then who would you steal from and be jealous of??
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye