states with voters wanting to secede

[Anna]

I never said they did win, a lot of the problems on the battlefields were they were still fighting in a
Napoleonic fashion up against the rifled musket. A new comer to warfair, and your comparison to
what Nazi Germany had accomplished ? No matter, like with Germany how many of their inventions did we the US copy right after the war ? How many inventions right after the civil war did we as the
US copy from the South? Both times how much of that was also copied by the entire world?
That was my point, not who won either of those wars Kimber. I think we all know the answer to that
one. But it's only polite to not ever lump the South into any category in reference to the Nazis.
Inventions are one thing, mind set is quite another. Many hard core Southerners also died fighting
Nazi oppression. I don't believe any Nazis died during the civil war fighting for the South.

[KIMBER45]

I never said they did win, a lot of the problems on the battlefields were they were still fighting in a
Napoleonic fashion up against the rifled musket. A new comer to warfair, and your comparison to
what Nazi Germany had accomplished ? No matter, like with Germany how many of their inventions did we the US copy right after the war ? How many inventions right after the civil war did we as the
US copy from the South? Both times how much of that was also copied by the entire world?
That was my point, not who won either of those wars Kimber. I think we all know the answer to that
one. But it's only polite to not ever lump the South into any category in reference to the Nazis.
Inventions are one thing, mind set is quite another. Many hard core Southerners also died fighting
Nazi oppression. I don't believe any Nazis died during the civil war fighting for the South.

I think you and I are not specifically talking about the same point. Hard to do sometimes on a computer. Things get misinterpreted by both sides.

[Dixie Dude]

When you consider the entire slave states, only 10% of the people owned slaves.  It was about 50% in Mississippi, 30% in Ala-Ga, etc.  So slavery was only one issue.  Also, records indicate only about 10% of the slave owners actually mistreated their slaves.  Most slaves were better off than northern factory workers.  Conditions for coal miners and factory workers in the north paid such low wages, that they really "owed their souls to the company store".  In reality, 90% of the American people both north and south owned or worked their own farms.  Most who fought for the south didn't own slaves, but fought for their states.  Most young poor southern men after the war went west to see what they could find or do.  Most plantation owners went to the share cropping system with their former slaves.  If slavery was so bad, why did most stay and not go north after the war.  The south was not Nazi Germany.  Slaves were more valuable alive and healthy, not starved, worked to death, and murdered.
 
That being said.  90% of manufacturing and ship building was in the north.  South didn't stand a chance relying on exported cotton to buy war materials.  Today is it a whole nother situation.  The south has far more industry, longer growing seasons.  Combined with the plains and mountain states constitute a large enough confederacy to actually succeed if they wanted to.  22 states have or are getting petitions.  Cutting out give away programs in these states would be a problem, with most peaceful takers moving to the hand out states.  Others might be a problem and could actually lead to a "civil war" within the states with high minorities. 
 
When the federal government colapses, a confederacy will have to be made by the states for mutual self defence.  Illegals will be shipped out, the parasites will have to learn to make a life on their own. 

[Anna]

I never said they did win, a lot of the problems on the battlefields were they were still fighting in a
Napoleonic fashion up against the rifled musket. A new comer to warfair, and your comparison to
what Nazi Germany had accomplished ? No matter, like with Germany how many of their inventions did we the US copy right after the war ? How many inventions right after the civil war did we as the
US copy from the South? Both times how much of that was also copied by the entire world?
That was my point, not who won either of those wars Kimber. I think we all know the answer to that
one. But it's only polite to not ever lump the South into any category in reference to the Nazis.
Inventions are one thing, mind set is quite another. Many hard core Southerners also died fighting
Nazi oppression. I don't believe any Nazis died during the civil war fighting for the South.

I think you and I are not specifically talking about the same point. Hard to do sometimes on a computer. Things get misinterpreted by both sides.

Probably, at least you are a gentalman about things. And your right, sometimes body language in person conveys a lot more than the topic of a conversation does. I just find it interesting how both
these entity's were on the verge of incredible weapons of war that were way ahead of their times.
WW1 was fought with a lot of things and tactics that were learned from our own civil war.
But many of those same things showed themselves to be obsolete during that war with the advent of modern warfair.

[KIMBER45]

I never said they did win, a lot of the problems on the battlefields were they were still fighting in a
Napoleonic fashion up against the rifled musket. A new comer to warfair, and your comparison to
what Nazi Germany had accomplished ? No matter, like with Germany how many of their inventions did we the US copy right after the war ? How many inventions right after the civil war did we as the
US copy from the South? Both times how much of that was also copied by the entire world?
That was my point, not who won either of those wars Kimber. I think we all know the answer to that
one. But it's only polite to not ever lump the South into any category in reference to the Nazis.
Inventions are one thing, mind set is quite another. Many hard core Southerners also died fighting
Nazi oppression. I don't believe any Nazis died during the civil war fighting for the South.

I think you and I are not specifically talking about the same point. Hard to do sometimes on a computer. Things get misinterpreted by both sides.

Probably, at least you are a gentalman about things. And your right, sometimes body language in person conveys a lot more than the topic of a conversation does. I just find it interesting how both
these entity's were on the verge of incredible weapons of war that were way ahead of their times.
WW1 was fought with a lot of things and tactics that were learned from our own civil war.
But many of those same things showed themselves to be obsolete during that war with the advent of modern warfair.

Yep. The machine gun changed alot of strategies.

[buffermop]

It all comes down to this. God has been removed from the US gov't foundation and the principals we were founded on. Satan has taken over and is having a field day for himself. This has got to be a record time for cauious in the US.

[Anna]

Flame throwers and trench guns played a big part in that also. Not to mention the airplane.

[powderman]

It all comes down to this. God has been removed from the US gov't foundation and the principals we were founded on. Satan has taken over and is having a field day for himself. This has got to be a record time for cauious in the US.

 
YEP, agreed, good post. Anytime you close the door to God, satan walks right in.  POWDERMAN. 

[mechanic]

Here is a paper with a counter view.....
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2012/11/18/texas-secession-obama-canada/1712241/
 
Ben

[AtlLaw]

Here is an excerpt from the Today's article that Ben cited:
 
"people also talk about secession for more serious reasons. They feel that the central government doesn't respect them, forces them to live under laws they find repugnant and takes their money away to pay off its own supporters"
 
And here is the last sentence of the Georgia Declaration of Causes as approved on January 29, 1861:
 
"...in spite of their (the Federal Government and Laws - ed.) most solemn obligations and covenants; because their avowed purpose is to subvert our society and subject us not only to the loss of our property but the destruction of ourselves, our wives, and our children, and the desolation of our homes, our altars, and our firesides. To avoid these evils we resume the powers which our fathers delegated to the Government of the United States, and henceforth will seek new safeguards for our liberty, equality, security, and tranquillity."
 
So, if one were to put aside the symptomatic debates (eg. It was about slavery/ It was about tariffs) and look at the root cause of the dissatisfaction with the union, it seems that the two entities above are of one mind.  Looks like nothing has changed much in 151 years... 
 
But, what do I know... 

[scootrd]

Mexican Texas is the name given by Texas history scholars to Texas during the period between 1821 and 1836, when Texas was an integral part of Mexico.

Texas could always secede and revert back to Mexican Texas if they are so dissatisfied with the union  Could kill two birds with one stone with regards to illegal immigration flowing through Texas. (just pokin Fun)   

[rickt300]

Any state can seccede, read the preamble to the constitution. The states entered the Union voluntarily and they should be able to leave it the same way.

[Cuts Crooked]

Any state can seccede, read the preamble to the constitution. The states entered the Union voluntarily and they should be able to leave it the same way.

Tell that to the fed.....it''s been tried, it failed. If tried again it will fail again.

[Gary G]

Any state can seccede, read the preamble to the constitution. The states entered the Union voluntarily and they should be able to leave it the same way.

Tell that to the fed.....it''s been tried, it failed. If tried again it will fail again.

Did the central government form the states or did the states form the central government? Who, with any sense, would enter into a lifetime contract that they were unsure of, and that they could not get out of?


True, it was tried and a sociopath was willing to kill 700,000 men women and children to prevent it.


If the seceding states had never provided the excuse, how far would he have gotten with the majority initially against him? Who would tolerate killing your own innocent people?


It can, and will, at some point happen.

[Cuts Crooked]

True, it was tried and a sociopath was willing to kill 700,000 men women and children to prevent it.

and THAT is what will happen again if it's tried.

[Dixie Dude]

It could work if tried again.  Why?
 
Most liberals are sheep today and don't want to fight.
 
The southern WITH the mountain and plains states would split the country into thirds.
 
The above states willing to succeed have most of the resources, and more willing people to fight for their freedoms, not counting minorities which would be an internal problem. 
 
Minorities not willing to succeed will be allowed to move to the liberal states. 
 
Most of the military personnel are currently from the conservative states. 
 
This is going to happen anyway IF the federal government bankrupts itself, thus leading to hyper inflation.  The states would have to step in with their governors and national guard to bring stability, otherwise society will have a complete breakdown. 
 
The producers and workers would have to defend themselves against the have nots who can't survive without a federal check. 
 
If the Republicans would get together and not fund any federal project, except military and social security, then civil war would break out. 

[Gary G]

True, it was tried and a sociopath was willing to kill 700,000 men women and children to prevent it.

and THAT is what will happen again if it's tried.

Martin Luther King won and never fired a shot. Ghandi tactics.

[Cuts Crooked]

Martin Luther King won and never fired a shot. Ghandi tactics.

You got 50 too 100 years to spend on it? And remember........MLK got his @$$ killed in the process.

[two-blocked]

Secession-the "blue light"special of K-Mart politicos!