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Offline ncloader88

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Gas check problem
« on: November 14, 2012, 05:04:11 AM »
So my Nef 444 shoots great!  2 bullets=1 hole :)   Problem is, sometimes the gas checks come off and that means a flier :-\   I have been seating hornady gas checks on lee 310s with a lee .430 push through sizer.  I am pushing them through nose first after hand dipping in lube.  I have a Hornady collet style bullet puller and was considering using this to crimp on the gas checks, but I don't want to squeeze them down too small.  I have heard of people doing something like this before, but it was my understanding that the gas check could not be smaller than the rest of the bullet in order to do it's job.  Is there a danger of serious leading if the gas check is under size?
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30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline Hairy Chest

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 04:40:08 PM »
Quote from: ncloader88 on November 14, 2012, 05:04:11 AM
So my Nef 444 shoots great!  2 bullets=1 hole :)   Problem is, sometimes the gas checks come off and that means a flier :-\   I have been seating hornady gas checks on lee 310s with a lee .430 push through sizer.  I am pushing them through nose first after hand dipping in lube.  I have a Hornady collet style bullet puller and was considering using this to crimp on the gas checks, but I don't want to squeeze them down too small.  I have heard of people doing something like this before, but it was my understanding that the gas check could not be smaller than the rest of the bullet in order to do it's job.  Is there a danger of serious leading if the gas check is under size?

Just the same as a jacketed bullet at the critical point, the base, being undersized.  You need to increase your GC shank diameter on the mold.  A properly sized GC won't come off, even if it was loose putting on.  Once the powder gases ignite, 20K+ psi (10 tons) per square inch and a 747 layed on top of the GC on the bullet to hold it in place couldn't exert the same pressing force as you do with your gun. 
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Offline ncloader88

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2012, 06:28:36 PM »
Makes perfect sense, I knew there was a simple solution ::)   Is there a way to modify the shank diameter uniformly using hand tools? I don't have a lathe :-[
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30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline Hairy Chest

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2012, 05:35:18 AM »
Quote from: ncloader88 on November 14, 2012, 06:28:36 PM
Makes perfect sense, I knew there was a simple solution ::)   Is there a way to modify the shank diameter uniformly using hand tools? I don't have a lathe :-[

I wouldn't bother.  I'd get another mold.  If you lap it larger maybe it will be OK, but why mess with it? 
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Offline ncloader88

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2012, 06:27:31 AM »
Do you think I would be ok buyin another mold of the same design or should I go with a completely different mold?  I know there are some tolerance issues with lee molds, maybe a new one will have a better shank :-\   I would like to keep this as cheap as possible
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30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline Hairy Chest

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2012, 07:48:15 AM »
You probably want a .432" bullet.  All I see commercially is Ranch Dog has 240 & 265 grain.  That would be $60 for a six-cavity.  Or you can figure out exactly what weight you want and order an LBT mold but that is $120 for double cavity.  I would get the double cavity, the six cavities are less accurate.  LBT's 4 cavities are great, they are $180, but you will make so many bullets so fast and they all shoot in one hole. 
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Study after study has shown how dangerous distracted driving is yet people continue to talk on their cell phones while driving. Driving in the U.S. requires your full attention. Many states and countries have made it illegal to use a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle and the federal government should follow their lead. Banning the use of cell phones while driving would have the added benefit of making the no-texting law enforceable.

Offline res45

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2012, 10:06:45 AM »
One option you can try which want cost you anything but some time is to anneal your checks.  GC's are cold stamped which work hardens them,to make them more flexible you can anneal them by placing them in a steel container and let them sit on top of your melt in the pot till they reaches the same temp around 650 to 700 degrees.

They want look all nice and shiny once there heated but they will be softer and perhaps form to the shank and give you a little better grip on the bullets shank.  If you have one of the more expensive molds you can send it to these guys and have it modified,they can pretty much do anything to a mold for a fee + shipping cost.

http://www.hollowpointmold.com/#repairs

If you have a cheap Lee mold and you have nothing to loose you can chuck up a cast bullet in a drill or drill press leaving the gas check shank exposed coat it with some valve grinding compound and use the cast bullet shank to polish out the gas check shank portion of the mold,if you can just open it up a couple thousands thats all you should need.
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Offline tdoor

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 10:38:03 AM »
You can also contact lee with your problem and tell them what you need,  they took care of a problem that I had with a mould of theres not lining up
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Offline tomme boy

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2012, 04:01:40 PM »
Like I said in your other post, How do you know they are coming off?


Call LEE and tell them you bought this mold new and the shank is undersized. They will give you a new one. Plus, they have a completely new design out for their molds. You might get one of the new designs.
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Offline ncloader88

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 04:33:24 PM »
Quote from: tomme boy on November 15, 2012, 04:01:40 PM
Like I said in your other post, How do you know they are coming off?


Call LEE and tell them you bought this mold new and the shank is undersized. They will give you a new one. Plus, they have a completely new design out for their molds. You might get one of the new designs.
I have had good accuracy but lots of fliers.  I have also done some relatively close penetration tests on a 7inch poplar and have had two impact points.  One for the bullet and one about an inch and a half to the side with a gas check imbedded just under the bark.  After finding this out I tried a few more and had many with the same result :-\
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30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline Nobade

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2012, 03:27:52 AM »
Using a decimal size chucking reamer in the drill press allows you to make the gascheck shank whatever size you want it to be. Or remove it entirely. I have several moulds that had your problem and it is an easy five minute fix once you get the reamer. Order them from MSC industrial.

Or have Jeff at hollowpointmolds.com open it up for you on the lathe. They need to be the right size to work properly. Might check with Hornady to see what the proper spec is. 
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Offline ncloader88

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2012, 03:41:35 AM »
I will probably give lee a call to see if they can help.  I have this posted on the H&R forum as well and I have had a couple people suggest super-glue on the gas checks before lubing and sizing ???   I may use this as a quick fix for this season and send in the mold at the beginning of next year.  Let me know if this is a bad idea.
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30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline Hairy Chest

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2012, 09:39:39 AM »
Quote from: ncloader88 on November 15, 2012, 04:33:24 PM
Quote from: tomme boy on November 15, 2012, 04:01:40 PM
Like I said in your other post, How do you know they are coming off?


Call LEE and tell them you bought this mold new and the shank is undersized. They will give you a new one. Plus, they have a completely new design out for their molds. You might get one of the new designs.
I have had good accuracy but lots of fliers.  I have also done some relatively close penetration tests on a 7inch poplar and have had two impact points.  One for the bullet and one about an inch and a half to the side with a gas check imbedded just under the bark.  After finding this out I tried a few more and had many with the same result :-\

The GC stayed on if it made it that far.  It can come apart on impact, but pressure keeps it on during flight. 
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Study after study has shown how dangerous distracted driving is yet people continue to talk on their cell phones while driving. Driving in the U.S. requires your full attention. Many states and countries have made it illegal to use a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle and the federal government should follow their lead. Banning the use of cell phones while driving would have the added benefit of making the no-texting law enforceable.

Offline ncloader88

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2012, 12:40:54 PM »
I am going to try the super-glue fix and if that gets rid if the fliers then I will know it's a gas check issue and I will get Lee to fix it for me.
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30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223
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