Martini Cadet caliber conversion question

[madbadger]

Okay you Martini fanatics, I've got a question.  First off, I don't yet have anything Martini, but y'all seem to have so much fun that I just have to get started.  I've always liked the looks of the Cadet action and am interested in knowing some of the possibilities in regard to larger chamberings in these actions.  I've seen quite a few in varmint calibers, but I'd like something more capable of being an all around gun.  I take the occasional shot at varmints, but tend to do more informal shooting and woods bumming.  I need something that I wouldn't be afraid of using in the right situation for deer or medium hogs.  I've read that the .41 Mag is about the upper limit for this action in terms of brass diameter.  While I love this cartridge I was really looking for something else.  I don't know what overall length the Cadet will accept but was wondering if the 7-30 Waters or the 38-55 would work, or what you guys have used.  

Also if any of you know of any Cadet actions for sale.  I've seen the Martini resource list and have about worn out my computer looking thru the links.  I really don't find much available that's not either really nice or really rough.  Since I'm a complete newbie to this game I was wanting to stay away from "Fair" complete Cadets & was just hoping for an action somewhere.

Anyway, any help you can give me at this planning and scheming stage in regard to caliber possibilities would be appreciated.

Not yet addicted, just becoming dependent

MadBadger

[madbadger]

'ello?

[gewehrfreund]

I have heard of conversions to 32 Win. Special, but these are marginal length-wise. So the 38-55 is probably out and the 7-30 Waters is too hot for a cadet IMO. Most cadets are rechambered to varmint calibers (22 Hornet, 218 Bee, etc.). A nice choice might be the 357 Maximum. This would certainly handle deer or hogs if loaded properly and used within reason, and it could be loaded down (or used with 357 Mag) for varmints, etc. Gee, now you've got me wanting a cadet conversion! Actually, I've had the hots for one for a while, but I would go with 218 Bee. Good luck in your quest.

[Leftoverdj]

Mad. either you posted it on more than one board, or cyberspace ate my answer. As has been noted, .357 Max is likely your best bet if you want deer/hog capability. You might also consider .25-35 which would give better varmint capability.

If you can find a decent rimless ejector conversion, you might consider the .223 based TCU series. 7mm TCU oughta be just what you need. 7mm Waters would do you fine, too, IF you stick to moderate pressure levels.

[Double D]

Some how or another I missed you original post.  I usually jump on Martini questions.

From the description you give of your needs the 7-30 Waters is what you want.

As is,  the 357 Maximum will not always fit the Cadet action.  If you can find an action that the Maximum will feed with out any Modification then go for it.  If the action has to be modified avoid the Maximum.  

Do not let anyone convince you they can make the Maximum fit the Cadet.  To make it fit they must compromise the safety or reliability of the action.  

Opening the feed tray in the top  of the breech block thins the area over the striker channel and at the rear of the block weakening the block. This is not a safe modification especially for a high pressure round like the maximum.

Adjusting the Breech block so it drops further misaligns the block in the loading position causing feeding problems.  It won't take you long to get frustrated trying to push a rounds in the chamber under a scope of a rifle with a misaligned block.

Bob Snapp makes a Rimless extractor. Jim Wasmundt will also make you a rimless extractor.

I have all the parts here to do a 7mm on a cadet .I thought of the TCU using 5.6 x50r rimmed cases but have decide to go with the Waters instead.

The 30-30 and 32 Special both will fit the little cadet rifle but you better restock before using these bruisers. the Original Cadet stock is just too small and recoil wil be unpleasant.  Good advice for the 7-30 Waters also.

The 38-55 is to long to fit.


Look at Thad Scot and John Appleton on the resource list.  They both have what you need.  Give them a call and tell them what you are looking for.

If you are patient then perhaps a little later in the year new made Cadet actions will be available.   At $600 each they will be a little spendy but they will be made of modern steels.  These new actions will have parts fully interchangable with the old guns, except barrels.  The Barrel tenon on the New Cadets will be larger giving added strength to an already strong action.

[madbadger]

Thanks for the input fellers....gives me plenty to think on over the weekend.

[elblerinnv]

Hello, Madbadger.  My wife has a custom Cadet in .222 Remington built by Dennis Erhardt (Sp?) from Montana.  It uses the Snapp extractor, which is really slick.  We bought another rimless extractor from Mr. Snapp at last years Custom Gunmakers Guild show in Reno, and were treated by him to tales of his own deer rifle, which is a 7mm-30 Waters.  He had the barreled action, but for some reason, no stock with him.  From his enthusiastic reports, I would think the 7mm-30 is just what you are looking for.  In fact, when the new actions are available, it may be just what I am looking for.

Respectfully,
Ernie

[Lefty Behind]

I'd think the 30 Herrett or the 25 Classic would be ideal in a knock around woods rifle Cadet.  Plenty of power for deer, yet not too long.
Maybe a rimmed 25 Copperhead?
     Lefty

[madbadger]

Double D

You mention that there will be new actions coming out later in the year.  Are you free to say who will be doing this?  I wouldn't mind getting on a list (downpayment included if necessary).  

The 7-30 or the 25 Copperhead rimmed (always wanted one o' them) sound fun.  Gotta admit, I don't know anything about the 25 Classic, can you guys point me in the right direction?

How do I get ahold of Mr. Snapp?  I've seen several of you guys mention him and it was a posting of one of his Cadets that sent me over the edge...way over.

Thanks for the input,

MadBadger

[Lefty Behind]

The 25 Classic is the 30 Herrett necked to 25cal. with no other changes.  Dies are available from Small Calibre News and brass is easy to form.

[Double D]

I know who the two guys are that are putting the Cadet together but I was so excited about I have never asked the name of the company.

I'll ask.

I'll also ask Bob Snapp how he wants to be contacted to sell an extractor, and get back to you.

[Double D]

Madbadger,

Send me an email and  will give you Bob Snapps email address, I can't find his business card right now.

[cam0063]

I am late here, been off forum for quite a while and this info here is a little off topic...

Some Martini Cadet conversions I have come across here in Australia -
.218 Mashburn Bee
.222Rimmed
.219 Donaldson Wasp
.219 Zipper
.225 Winchester
.32 Special
.357 Magnum
.44 Magnum

*Also the very popular .22lr, .22mag, .22hornet and various .17s...

Some interesting Martini Cadet conversion articles-

Rifle magazine - May/June 1979 Issue. begins page 36 "Lazy Days Martini" by Layne Simpson.

Guns & Ammo - June 1972 Issue. Page 72 "Country Club Chucks" by C George Charles.

Guns & Ammo - July 1986 Issue. Page 58 "The Old Martini... A new and neat single-shot gem" by Ross Seyfried

I am at present building a .218 Bee [Mashburn] improved, well my Gunsmith is. He is so snowed under, it is taking forever, but these fine little rifles are worth the wait!

I donot know your import laws, however Matini Cadet actions still pop up here from time to time. Think my gunsmith mate paid $25[Aussie] for mine. I am just keeping an eye out for a Unertyl 10 or 12 power scope. They are near impossible to find here. I will be in the U.S in June and will keep an eye out then.

Best of luck.

cheers,

Cam.........

[marlinman93]

One of the most popular conversions to cadets here in the Staes is the .32-20 Win. Many were converted to this caliber upon arriving here years ago, as the original .310 ammo was nonexistent here. Mine is one of these conversions.

[Kiwi Rob]

Hi to all , just a word about those  high presure cartriges mentioned as being too hot for the small martini action..
According to Frank De Hass anything you can get into the action is safe to fire  ...I do not entirely agree ,  as you may only get to fire one shot ,but generally he is correct in this regard ,  If you know what I mean..
  Because the  primary extraction is not all that good due to the mechanical advantage  , you will be having extraction problems long before you reach the point where you will be in danger of blowing up the gun ...Rob                                       [/img]

[jeff]

I am not the expert that DoubleD is, in fact when it comes to Martini's he could write a book or two.

Give John Appleton a call, he can set you up with a good action for your project and it would most likely be the beefier 1215 action.  Very Reasonable!

I've bought two actions from Appleton's candy store this year for projects.  Jjust received my newly re-barreled action (218 Mashburn) back from Jim Wasmundt last Thursday and I'm tickled with the work.(very quick turnaround too)!  Now I need to get a stock, the old B&D workmate is just too clunky to handle.  

I haven't made up my mind on the second action, I'm thinking maybe a 256 Win or 25-35 Tomcat or maybe something else.  Right now I just haven't decided.

[Drifter Mike]

 I have a few cadets in centerfire cals. The fun one is the 30 Herrett, It will do just about anything you might want. I also have a 25/35 I am in the middle of, needs wood, as well as a 25/20, 32/20, 310 and a few more rimfires. If you go to the large action you can have anything you might want. I have a 50/70, 45/70, 38/56. 303, 7mm rimmed and a some 22 rimfires on the large action, just to name a few. Martini's are just too much fun to only have one!
 Drifter Mike

[josquin]

One of the most popular conversions to cadets here in the Staes is the .32-20 Win. Many were converted to this caliber upon arriving here years ago, as the original .310 ammo was nonexistent here. Mine is one of these conversions.

I've had a .310 sitting patiently in my locker for over a year waiting for me to decide what to do with it, and the 32-20 I think will be the answer. I did get reformed Cadet brass from Buffalo Arms, but my rifle must have an odd chamber as I had to trim them down even shorter than the short version of the brass as well as reducing rim diameter even more. I also got  some heeled Cadet bullets from Wayne Doudna at LTD Cast Bullets in Wisconsin, and figure that if I can recut the chamber for the 32-20 I can crimp the .310 bullets in the .32-20 case OK.

Is this what you did with yours, Marlinman93, or does yours work with the smaller 32-20 bullets?

Stuart