7mm-08 frustration

[tsigmon]

Got a new 7mm-08  a couple of months ago  sighted it in with factory  ammo ( Rem 140 gr managed recoil)  then used the once fired brass to reload  reduced recoil loads  with H 4895 and 120 gr bullets.  Both loads would shoot a less than 1 3/4 "  group.  Took it out today to  shoot a little and it is stringing shots vertically with up to about a 8"  spread.  There is no consistancy in the shot spread , two shots maybe right together than the next will be 8" high and the next might be in the middle.  Windage is no problem all are within an inch  of the centerline from top to bottom of the target. I took scope off to check all mounting hardware and remounted and tighted everything again and same problem. I've read all the FAQ , O-ring floated the forearm, cleaned and dried the locking shelf/lug and still the vertical stringing. The only other scopes I have are mounted on other guns that are shooters and I hate to take one off. I guess Ill have to spring for another scope  just to try to eliminate  the scope . Any advice? Also the gun has probably been shot about 50 times.

[Ranger99]

maybe the particular firearm won't use
reduced loads well. i have 2 that don't.
maybe it's not broken in enough? maybe
it will settle with more rounds down the pipe.
have you tried other powders? i've seen that too.
different brand bullets or bullet weights?

[tsigmon]

Think I'll try a full power load before I change scopes. What really baffles me is it shot good before and now the vertical stringing . Windage wise it is a good bit  less than an inch. Might be the vertical adjustment on the scope... I just don't know. Wish I had a spare scope that I could count on.

[RPRNY]

FWIW, and not a lot, I have had horrible results with all efforts to reduced load 30-06. Just horrible. On the other hand, plinker loads of TB and the 86 gr 308 short jacket Hornady bullet in 30-30 which shoots like a .22lr have been remarkably accurate and consistent.

Having said that, I am at a loss to understand the logic of reduced load 7mm-08. This is a cartridge that shoots pretty soft at full belt. 130 - 150 gr at reasonable published loads are soft and accurate. I don't think it's the scope. I think you are spot on going back to normal 7mm-08 loads ( which, if I didn't have a love affair with 6.5x55, would be my favorite cartridge) because they aren't heavy and if you are vertical stringing, my guess is its powder, powder, powder.

[Antietamgw]

Wish I had a spare scope that I could count on.

IMO, you (me, all of us) absolutely need one, especially since we like to try new barrels or guns.  Scopes fail all the time, sometimes won't shoot to point of aim, adjustments fail to work or shift and won't hold, reticle turns inside the tube,etc. The worst are the ones that just shift point of aim very slightly with most every shot. Makes your 1MOA combination shoot 4MOA groups and you thinks it's the load, rifle, shooter, whatever.  I have 2 real inexpensive 4X fixed scopes that I use for testing because they have been absolutely reliable for many years on many different rifles. I had them on .22's when I got them because they were cheap and had decent optics with straight crosshair reticle, nice for squirrels, cans and paper if the light was good. Took awhile but I finally realized that the adjustments worked well and were repeatable. A friend and I used to shoot the .22's at 200 yds at a 12" gong. I found that these had enough adjustment and it was repeatable. I eventually needed a scope to try something new out and pulled one off the .22  It worked great and I just continued to use it for testing. The second scope was "discovered" pretty much the same way. 1 is a Universal and the other is a Revelation, both kind inexpensive off-brands from the '70's era. Extremely helpful when you are trying a new rifle or troubleshooting a problem to have a proven scope. You can only test or prove one thing at a time...

So, did anything change with your rig between the time you worked up your load and the stringing started? Didn't sound like it from your post.  I'm betting the scope is the problem. Good luck with it!

[Jimbo47]

I wouldn't touch the scope or the settings until after you've fired more of the same factory rounds you shot when it shot good.  That will tell you right away if it's the scope or not.   
Trying to fix things that your not sure aren't broke is going to lead to a lot of frustration, and possible expense.

[Brian P.]

How 'reduced' are you talking about? H4895 and Varget do not reduce to midrange very well in my experience.  I switched to SR4759 which provides good pressure but slower velocites.  I think it's about the best powder for downloading there is and no chance of double charging.
 
http://www.imrpowder.com/sr4759.html

[tsigmon]

I was having trouble finding 7mm-08 brass and yesterday it finally got here from BPS . With the factory loaded stuff I have shot, now I plenty to experiment with. I have  three powders  that are compatible for a 120 gr bullet according to the Hodgdon web site so I think I'll load about 5 of each at starting charges and see what happens. Is a 120 gr bullet too light for this gun?
 
As for why a reduced load for a 7mm-08 I was loading for a  13 year old  and trying to work him up to full power loads. A while back he was a little shy of recoil and I was trying to avoid a problem .Probably more of an issue of me rather than him. Also I'm goinh to check out the  published loads for SR4759 .
 
 May not get to load these up for  a day or too got a lot going on this week end.

[quickdtoo]

Sounds like a bad scope to me, but have you removed and reinstalled the forend since the original good accuracy? Consistent screw torque is key here as is closing the action firmly, as in slam it shut, particularly on a newer rifle. Trying to close the action while in a rest or on bags doesn't work well which can cause inconsistent lock up, I pick mine up and always close it the same when benching it. Cleaning it too good will also cause problems, Handis seem to like well fouled bores.

Good luck in finding the cuprit(s). 

Tim

[BBF]

If you got a good Bore Sighter I suggest you run the scope through its entire windage and elevation adjustment to see if it tracks properly.  I have had several lower cost scopes that will change their zero when going into the upper power setting.

[gcrank1]

Is the latch clean and dry?
Is the buttstock bolt tight?
The hammer isnt hitting the scope is it?
How is your bench position and technique? Make sure you and the gun are in absolutely the same position every time. Soft loads with longer barrel time can be troublesome for some.
In my experience a bad scope moves shots all around the clock, not just Up/Down or L/R, but I know I havent seen it all....
BTW, just because a powder is listed in data doesnt mean it is the best choice or most accurate, only that it is within the test parameters to be a safe load.

[cjrjck]

My 308 based Handi Rifles to include the two 7mm08 I have owned have very long throats. While each rifle has its own personality, I generally don't get acceptable accuracy until I seat the bullets out as close to the lands as is practical.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I was going to ask what seating depth you tried on the reduced loads.
my Handi absolutely hates the bullet near the lands and need some "jump" to shoot decent.
compare the factory loaded COAL you tried with your handloads.
After making a chamber cast of my 7mm-08 I found there is almost no throat before the rifling starts

[Brian P.]

In my experience it is the bullet and powder combination, particularly if it's a boat tailed bullet, that determines whether it needs to be seated to the lands.  I also came to the conclusion that it's more screwing around than I want to do and the LFC die really seems to increase consistency in my reduced loads.