Author Topic: Opinions on AR (Read 9765 times)

Cuts Crooked · « **on:** November 17, 2012, 07:25:33 PM »

My oldest son is wanting to add an AR to his stable. Thinking about buying him one for Christmas.

Wondering if any of you have any experiance with this one: http://www.star15.com/DSC_MIDNIGHTDRAGON.html

Good? Bad? Indifferent?

JeffG · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2012, 06:06:13 AM »

Uses for AR 15's are as varied as the configurations. What does he intend to use it for? Double Star is fine, but if he wants a home protection or truck gun, you might want something closer to a carbine.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2012, 10:17:26 AM »

Quote from: JeffG on November 18, 2012, 06:06:13 AM

Uses for AR 15's are as varied as he configurations. What does he intend to use it for? Double Star is fine, but if he wants a home protection or truck gun, you might want something closer to acarbine.

He'd use it mostly for paper punching and the occassional varmint hunt.

Old Syko · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2012, 06:47:41 AM »

DS offers a good product for the money. No experience with this particular model but I have used their parts and will in the future. The spiral fluting incorporated in this model is a bit gimmicky and adds to the cost more than functionality. I feel a better choice is a heavy bull threaded for a good compensator. I have just such a barrel and it is unbelievable what it is capable of. If you do go with this gun I would suggest you opt for the Jewell trigger assy. The standard 2 stage offered is better than a lot of others but not up to the standards of the Jewell.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2012, 06:51:31 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on November 18, 2012, 10:17:26 AM

Quote from: JeffG on November 18, 2012, 06:06:13 AM
Uses for AR 15's are as varied as he configurations. What does he intend to use it for? Double Star is fine, but if he wants a home protection or truck gun, you might want something closer to acarbine.

He'd use it mostly for paper punching and the occassional varmint hunt.

well if that's the goal that gun looks nice . That boy has a good daddy .

45-70.gov · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2012, 06:58:59 AM »

let me know if you want to adopt....i am available

my smith AR has that but stock...i like it
my sons AR has that pistol grip

seems like a lot of good options for that price....can it still be had in todays market?

$400 he can get a carbine upper if he likes

my AR is the most accurate rifle i own

drdougrx · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2012, 08:18:23 AM »

FWIW....I'd say that a SW M&P Optics Ready Carbine is a great place to start. He can get the sights he wants or a scope and it is very accurate for whatever purpose he likes. I have several ARs and the one I use the most for paper and coyotes is a Bushmaster Natl Match A3 with the removable handle. It has the A frame fixed front site that i have been meaning to change out with a piccatinny rail gas block, except I have no distraction from it in my 4x12 Leupold scope so I may just leave it alone. It shoots 1/2" at 100 yards with a host of bullets...it favors 68 or 69gr match bullets. Another one I like is a Bushmaster Predator with the 20" free floated fluted barrel.

However....The one you selected looks like a heck of a gun though!!!!!

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2012, 11:54:52 AM »

Thanx fer the input gang!

I'm also considering this one as an option: http://www.star15.com/20_DSC_SUPERMATCH_RIFLE.html But it would have to have an upgrade to the butt stock.

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** November 19, 2012, 12:00:15 PM »

Go to Walmart and get the Colt M4. You'll thank me later.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #9 on:** November 19, 2012, 12:56:00 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 19, 2012, 12:00:15 PM

Go to Walmart and get the Colt M4. You'll thank me later.

Two of my friends have the Colt M4. Both say they are a POS. $:-\$

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2012, 01:12:16 PM »

The best you can buy and worth every penney. No suprise....

cjclemens · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2012, 03:07:56 PM »

Quote

The best you can buy and worth every penney. No suprise....

I don't normally support brand snobbery, but Colt does make a good AR. That being said, I have a buddy that uses a Doublestar as his truck gun - it's held up despite his usual neglect and minor abuse of firearms...

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2012, 12:12:06 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 19, 2012, 01:12:16 PM

The best you can buy and worth every penney. No suprise....

My friends are Marine Vets.......definately not dopes.

Swampman · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2012, 02:12:45 AM »

All I needed to know.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2012, 02:28:20 AM »

I guess I should admit that they both say that the M4 is a good base for a custom gun. Put a decent barrel on one a different forend, along with a good trigger group, and lower receiver, and you can get a pretty good gun out of it.

drdougrx · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2012, 03:00:48 AM »

Cuts....what EXACTLY are you looking for??? The M4 as is a great gun....for what it is. IF you are looking for a dedicated target gun, than a Colt H-BAR is also good. Like almost every gun, there's always the "need" for a better trigger, sights, etc. I think your son would be well served with someones Varminter model.... The gun that you posted has allot of BLING...but to each his own....

Take a look at the Bushy Varminter or Predator with fluted barrels or one of the stag guns as well.....since ARs are modular, you almost can't go wrong......

45-70.gov · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2012, 03:03:40 AM »

The gun that you posted has allot of BLING...but to each his own....

bling and gifts go together

stick with the first choice

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** November 20, 2012, 03:37:42 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on November 20, 2012, 02:28:20 AM

I guess I should admit that they both say that the M4 is a good base for a custom gun. Put a decent barrel on one a different forend, along with a good trigger group, and lower receiver, and you can get a pretty good gun out of it.

Colt at one time passed less than stella guns on the market when they were not up to military standard , reason some came with odd pin holes etc. this pratice may have changed maybe not. I had one Colt HB and it was not so good upper and lower started off lose and kept getting worst. I understand the need for a full auto or gun with a 3 round burst control to need to be lose to a point but not a HB target rifle.

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** November 20, 2012, 03:41:33 AM »

The Colt M4 will shoot 1/2 MOA groups with cheap ammo from the factory. What more do you need?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** November 20, 2012, 03:51:50 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 20, 2012, 03:41:33 AM

The Colt M4 will shoot 1/2 MOA groups with cheap ammo from the factory. What more do you need?

That would be the most accurate run of guns in the numbers they produced ever.
"what more do you need ? " proof from another few sources would be nice.

Swampman · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2012, 04:05:50 AM »

Shot quite a few less than MOA 100 yard groups with mine without a scope using cheap 55 grain FMJ ammo. I saw a 50 shot group that was less than MOA using iron sights, 10 were offhand and 10 were rapid fire. I've seen quite a few test reports on the current M4 that reported 1/2 MOA groups. I tend to hang with folks that can shoot. Mine neve malfunctions. I wouldn't own another brand personally. You want a mil-spec gun.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** November 20, 2012, 04:12:15 AM »

I don't doubt you statements and in fact know these guns by any brand name can shoot but it would be odd if ALL of one type were that good. Now if other owners came forward with nothing but the same result then i would be less hesitant to agree. What was it the great man said believe but verify

NYH1 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 20, 2012, 01:42:49 PM »

Let us also keep in mind that a "Mil-Spec" M4 is a 14.5" barrel "select fire" (semi-auto/burst or semi-auto/full auto) carbine. . . . ."NOT" a 16" barrel semi-auto carbine. . . . .that's a AR15 carbine. Calling a AR15 carbine a M4 is like calling a AR15 20" rifle a M16. . . . .not the same, not at all!

Also, you'll be VERY hard pressed to shoot 1/2 MOA groups with either a M4, M16, AR15 carbine or AR15 rifle if they have a chrome lined bore. . . . .which ALL "Mil-Spec" M4 and M16 variants will have.

The chrome line bore helps with ease of maintenance, durability and bore life but has a real negative effect on accuracy. Anyone that was in the military or that has really world experience with chrome line bore M4, M16, AR15 carbines and AR15 rifles would know this.

NYH1.

Swampman · « **Reply #23 on:** November 20, 2012, 02:24:01 PM »

Mine is marked Colt M4 Carbine. An AR-15 is an entirely different firearm. They do use the same lower. It shoots what I said it will shoot so your remarks are meaningless. I've been shooting M-16s and AR-15s since the 1970s. Buy a Colt not a copy.

NYH1 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 20, 2012, 03:27:11 PM »

You're right, your AR15A4 carbine is an entirely different firearm then a M4. That's exactly what I'm telling you. Unless you have a 14.5" barrel, select fire, carbine of one of the four models listed below with the exception of the International Model R0977 which is the only M4 that's not select fire. . . . .YOU DON'T HAVE A M4. . . . . .no matter how it makes you feel to say that you do. I saw on another site you said you have a LE6920, which is a GREAT AR15A4 Carbine, there is no doubt about it. . . . .however. . . . .YOU DO NOT HAVE A M4, you have a LE6920 AR15A4 16" barrel, non-select fire, semi-auto carbine.

I don't give a rotten's rats rear what it says on it. You claim to be a knowledgeable gun guy and you go around posting that you have a M4, when you most certainly DO NOT. I don't care how old you are or how long you claim to have used the AR15/M16 platform. And a AR type setup with a chrome line barrel isn't going to shoot 1/2 MOA groups, it's just not.
US Models-
R0920 semi-auto/burst
R0921 Semi-auto/full auto

International Models-
R0977 semi-auto
R0979 semi-auto/burst

M4 http://www.colt.com/ColtMilitary/Products/ColtM4Carbine.aspx

LE6920 http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtRifles/ColtCarbinesI.aspx

JimP. · « **Reply #25 on:** November 20, 2012, 04:02:29 PM »

DPMS Sportacal, nice carbine for the money, put some good optics and it will probably do everything your son wants in his first AR.

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** November 21, 2012, 01:56:12 AM »

Mine is marked M4. Colt hasn't produced an AR-15 in many years. They have made a Colt Sporter. You need to do your research. Mine shoots 1/2 MOA as do all the M4s recently tested. Of course you have to be able to shoot and therein lies the rub.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #27 on:** November 21, 2012, 07:55:58 AM »

Well I went ahead and ordered the Midnight Dragon for him. I'm pretty sure it will be both appreciated and shot a LOT! For upgrades I ordered the Jewel trigger and added flip up sites.

Someone mentioned the "bling" factor. He'll like it for that very reason, he's young and likes things that are different.

NYH1 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 21, 2012, 04:40:45 PM »

Colt hasn't made a AR15 in "many years". . . . .REALLY??? You should call Colt and ask them why they have AR15's listed on their 2012 Defense web site. . . . .I mean since they haven't made them in "many years".

The Colt AR6721:AR15-A3 Tactical Carbine. Notice on the Colt link provided that they are in fact AR15 Carbines and have 16.1 inch barrel and are semi-auto. . . . .just like your LE6920 that is a AR15 Carbine, not a M4!

The Colt AR6721:AR15-A3 Tacticle Carbine. . . . .right from Colts 2012 Defence web site.
http://www.colt.com/ColtLawEnforcement/Products/ColtTacticalCarbine.aspx

Swampman · « **Reply #29 on:** November 22, 2012, 01:56:20 AM »

I shoot everyday. I just stated the facts and you started in with a bunch of nonsense. Pretty common actually. Colt doesn't mark them AR-15 and hasan't in years. They are Colt Sporters.