Author Topic: Opinions on AR (Read 9910 times)

NYH1 · « **Reply #60 on:** December 01, 2012, 06:19:13 PM »

SharonAnne, I too have a spine injury. I had the disc's between my S1/L5 and L5/L4 vertebrae's removed, spacers put in where the disc's were, screws put in each side of my those vertebrae's, rods attached them, bone scraped from my pelvic area and put around the rods and screws to make everything stronger.

Worse thing I ever did in my life. If I could take it back I would in a heart beat. I went from being in pain and discomfort to being physically unable to do things because my surgical area feels like something is broken and the pain is so excruciating it just stops me in my tracks. My daughter twisted her ankle ice skating last year. I went to pick her up and dropped to the ground. It get really bad some times. Hope your isn't as bad as mine. Good luck.

Good shooting, NYH1!

NYH1 · « **Reply #61 on:** December 01, 2012, 06:40:47 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 30, 2012, 03:54:06 PM

The Colt parts are mil-spec. Most AR parts are not.

swampman, remember your LE6920 isn't mil-spec either, it's not select fire (WHICH IS THE BIGGEST MIL-SPEC FEATURE THERE IS) and the barrel is to long to be a M4 or M4A1 and to short to be a M16 of any variant!

NYH1.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #62 on:** December 01, 2012, 08:26:34 PM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on December 01, 2012, 02:41:35 PM

Cuts Crooked. I read your comments about your son being autistic. You and he are in my prayers. I know it can be very challenging. I loved the comment about "nice gun". I would hate to be the gun owner who had it handed back with no comment in front of my friends. Very embarrassing. Has he shot in competition or is the activity too much distraction?

I am VERY sure that he will shoot his Christmas present and say "nice gun". I believe it will be a favorite of his.

My thanx, but uneeded. My son is the very nearly the center of my world and my greatest joy. If he were not autistic he would be what we call, a Renaissance Man.

However, he cannot cope with crowds at all. Thus he has never shot in competition. It is of no consequence though.
But this is not the place to talk about him. If you would know more, drop me a PM.

Swampman · « **Reply #63 on:** December 02, 2012, 03:57:01 AM »

Quote from: NYH1 on December 01, 2012, 06:40:47 PM

Quote from: Swampman on November 30, 2012, 03:54:06 PM
The Colt parts are mil-spec. Most AR parts are not.
swampthing, remember your LE6920 isn't mil-spec either, it's not select fire (WHICH IS THE BIGGEST MIL-SPEC FEATURE THERE IS) and the barrel is to long to be a M4 or M4A1 and to short to be a M16 of any variant!

NYH1.

Every single part in it is mil-spec. That's what mil-spec means. If you worked in the industry you'd know that. Most AR parts are not mil-spec.

cjclemens · « **Reply #64 on:** December 02, 2012, 06:17:59 AM »

Quote

Most AR parts are not mil-spec.

Maybe on planet Swampy.

Please tell us why on earth they WOULDN'T be mil-spec? How would other AR manufacturers compete for military/law-enforcement contracts if they DIDN'T build things to the same spec as everyone else? Interchangeability and parts compatibility is a requirement, if you hope to sell any rifles at all. If you have any evidence to support this claim, please share it. Or is that classified information as well???

Swampman · « **Reply #65 on:** December 02, 2012, 11:52:08 AM »

Oh they'll fit but they aren't mil-spec. That's why a good AR cost more. The police don't care if their guns are mil-spec. The military requires them to be mil-spec. Most companies that make ARs don't sell to the military or even try to because they can't build to mil-specs.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #66 on:** December 02, 2012, 04:59:21 PM »

mil-spec is not hard to do for any company with cad/cam equipment. and the specs are not a secret.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #67 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:29:03 AM »

lets look at bbls , when they say mil spec. what are they saying ? steel used ? coatings ? profile ? just what ? It could mean any of the listed or other things like feed ramps etc.maybe it's just measurements ?and we haven't mentioned bolts and carrier

Most commerical bbl's are not made to the same spec. as military rifles are with regard to steel used . Why because military rifles are made to withstand 10,000 more psi pressure than civilian guns. The cost of such bbl's would increase guns to where many would not buy them . The military does things like full auto fire, burst fire, jump out of aircraft and vehicles where a stronger bbl will pay for itself. Then there are triggers , how many M-4's have a single or two stage trigger ? Thought the military had burst and full auto's which have a different trigger set up . Sear same thing there is a sear for burst and full auto which is very different than what we can have in a AR. Then there is the lower reciver with a military gun there is room for the burst control and full auto parts where if the civilian AR's have such space you might be in violation of federal firearms laws. note that way back some were sold with the space aval. others had a block installed but this was long ago and not on M-4 style guns. Then there are stocks , there are so many out there who knows anymore ? same with handguards and pistol grips .........most groups in the military can get what they want so it would seem there would be a spec. for most anything these days so it might be what is standard and what is speical use ? Speical forces and seals alone use different than standard arms .
So anyone building an AR will soon learn that mil spec indicates the parts should fit together with little or no fitting. They learn that parts come with differen't finishes although they both claim to be mil spec . Most companies buy parts , some all some a few . How many companies need to make parts , it is more cost effective to job out parts.
So how does one have a mil spec M-4 with a lower reciver , sear , trigger group , maybe bbl and other parts that may or may not be standard mil spec ? Or to put it another way what does mil spec add to the gun other than parts marked as such should fit , maybe not well but fit . And isn't that at least part of why they have a spec ?
So why are we even picking sides here ? The parts many buy to build their own gun are the parts ( where possible and legal) the same replacement parts the govt. contracts for as replacements. Other parts are made by the same companies the Colt plant may get parts from .
AR's by design are parts guns no matter who puts the parts together.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #68 on:** December 03, 2012, 08:59:05 AM »

well said

FourBee · « **Reply #69 on:** December 11, 2012, 04:18:42 AM »

I know the younger generation likes the M4 style, but this old Vietnam vet carries the memories of his colt M16, and I'm satisfied with its little improved kissin' cousin the CDD-15.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #70 on:** December 11, 2012, 05:57:01 PM »

no Colt lower receiver is mil-spec since mil-spec entails holes for the autosear which is quite illegal for civilians. Also Colt civilian lowers are made so that a Lightning Link cannot be used thus taking them out of mil-spec. No civilian Colt bolt carriers are mil-spec since mil-spec carriers are cut for full auto fire and Ar15 carriers are cut for semi auto fire. . The entire trigger group of any civilian legal AR is not mil-spec since mil-spec is select fire.

So, just what parts on civilian Colts are mil-spec?

Heck, the parts I buy to build my ARs would exceed mil-spec if mil-spec would ever include semi auto parts.

Swampman · « **Reply #71 on:** December 12, 2012, 01:55:50 AM »

You're wrong again....The military buys semi-autos too. All Colt parts are mil-spec.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #72 on:** December 12, 2012, 02:03:15 AM »

The military buys lots on non issue items , just because they buy something does not make it mil spec. At one time navy seals were buying gortex jackets from Cabelas because the military had not began to spe. or use it yet but they wanted/needed it .

Swampman · « **Reply #73 on:** December 12, 2012, 11:05:24 AM »

All Colt parts are mil-spec. Clearly most here don't even know what that means.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #74 on:** December 12, 2012, 02:03:15 PM »

they are, they are, they are, they are. i think i can, i think i can. and of course, there's no place like home (clicking heels)

Spanky · « **Reply #75 on:** December 12, 2012, 04:05:47 PM »

Does anyone have any more opinions on the AR?

Spanky

SharonAnne · « **Reply #76 on:** December 13, 2012, 12:26:45 AM »

Yes, I think we have flogged this poor dead horse plenty long.

Spanky, my apologies.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #77 on:** December 13, 2012, 01:28:01 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 12, 2012, 11:05:24 AM

All Colt parts are mil-spec. Clearly most here don't even know what that means.

so how is your bbl.and lower marked ?

45-70.gov · « **Reply #78 on:** December 13, 2012, 03:56:24 AM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on December 13, 2012, 12:26:45 AM

Yes, I think we have flogged this poor dead horse plenty long.

Spanky, my apologies.

not done untill we know if he got it!!
http://www.star15.com/DSC_MIDNIGHTDRAGON.html

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #79 on:** December 13, 2012, 04:03:58 AM »

oh there may be a few more miles in the old nag......

cjclemens · « **Reply #80 on:** December 13, 2012, 07:28:59 AM »

Wow! That there be one fancy AR! Sure makes my plain-Jane Del-Ton look like a junker. Too bad it won't shoot well without Colt stamped on it!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #81 on:** December 13, 2012, 10:04:23 AM »

I talked to a guy once who worked for a company that made uppers and lowers . He sold seconds at gun shows , all were marked as such but the problems were cosmetic . He said they would make them stamp the logo of the company that was getting them ship them out for coating then to the customer. That kind of sums it up really. He said there were not many who made recivers . He also said some builders used their forgings to machine recivers in house. The purpose of the way Ar's and M16'a and M4's are built is so many can make them in time of war. So most may be mil spec to a point .

Swampman · « **Reply #82 on:** December 13, 2012, 12:05:08 PM »

The alloys, dimensions, heat treating, coatings, etc. have to be to mil-spec or they aren't mil-spec.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #83 on:** December 13, 2012, 02:47:54 PM »

cjc. you are too cruel

Swampman · « **Reply #84 on:** December 13, 2012, 03:06:27 PM »

Quote from: cjclemens on December 13, 2012, 07:28:59 AM

Wow! That there be one fancy AR! Sure makes my plain-Jane Del-Ton look like a junker. Too bad it won't shoot well without Colt stamped on it!

The Colt stamp means quality. If quality doesn't matter then buy an off brand.

jmayton · « **Reply #85 on:** December 13, 2012, 05:15:54 PM »

I have a Colt LE6920 made by Colt Defense. Many Colts on the market, and I'm assuming those sold at Wal-Mart are made by Colt Manufacturing. Basically the same, but marketed different. The 6920 has M4 feed ramps, H buffer, MPI barrel, MPI Bolt, M16 BCG, Parkerized under the FSB, F stamped FSB, black extractor o-ring, and chrome-lined barrel and chamber. These are all mil-spec and enhance reliability. The only things that are not mil-spec are the FCG and the barrel length. With all that, my rifle will shoot right at MOA and can run dry and dirty without problems. It will keep running when others will begin to malfunction.

Now my personal opinion is if you are simply looking for a good shooter, then just about anything will do. I have a friend that built a varmint AR from a Model 1 parts kit. It shoots 1/2 MOA all day long and was much less expensive than my Colt. If you want something that is absolutely reliable, then make sure that it has the above listed features. (The H buffer is only for carbine gas systems)

Cuts, based on your criteria, the Midnight Dragon looks pretty good. If you're considering other options, I'd look at Windham for a good, lightweight, rifle length (gas system) varminter and plinker. They make one that isn't too heavy and all the ones I've looked at appear to be very well made. For carbines, check out CMMG or S&W. They make great rifles at good prices. If you want the most reliable and durable, then look at Colt (Defense), LMT, Daniel Defense, or Bravo Company.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #86 on:** December 14, 2012, 02:53:45 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 30, 2012, 03:54:06 PM

The Colt parts are mil-spec. Most AR parts are not.

in what way ?

Swampman · « **Reply #87 on:** December 14, 2012, 03:14:53 AM »

They don't meet the specs. The alloys, dimensions, coatings, etc. are not to the specs. The Colts are.....

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #88 on:** December 14, 2012, 03:46:18 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 14, 2012, 03:14:53 AM

They don't meet the specs. The alloys, dimensions, coatings, etc. are not to the specs. The Colts are.....

maybe for military contract but if it were true foe commerical sales then we would not be dealing with large take down pins on one end or the other or booth or off set pins.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #89 on:** December 14, 2012, 06:33:55 AM »

[quote author=Swampman The Colts are..... " they are, they are, they are, they are, they are.

Tell it long enough, loud enough, eventually someone will believe. no one of consequence.