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Offline Swampman

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #90 on: December 14, 2012, 06:57:39 AM »
Quote from: SHOOTALL on December 14, 2012, 03:46:18 AM
Quote from: Swampman on December 14, 2012, 03:14:53 AM
They don't meet the specs.  The alloys, dimensions, coatings, etc. are not to the specs.  The Colts are.....

maybe for military contract but if it were true foe commerical sales then we would not be dealing with large take down pins on one end or the other or booth or off set pins.

We no longer are.  The Colt M4 Carbine and all new Colts are mil-spec.  The fact is even the pins both large and small are mil-spec.  Colts are mil-spec.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #91 on: December 14, 2012, 07:17:58 AM »
Quote from: Swampman on December 14, 2012, 06:57:39 AM
Quote from: SHOOTALL on December 14, 2012, 03:46:18 AM
Quote from: Swampman on December 14, 2012, 03:14:53 AM
They don't meet the specs.  The alloys, dimensions, coatings, etc. are not to the specs.  The Colts are.....

maybe for military contract but if it were true foe commerical sales then we would not be dealing with large take down pins on one end or the other or booth or off set pins.

We no longer are.  The Colt M4 Carbine and all new Colts are mil-spec.  The fact is even the pins both large and small are mil-spec.  Colts are mil-spec.

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
the larger pins go in military rejects  ;)
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #92 on: December 14, 2012, 07:52:18 AM »
As long as the pins meet some mil-spec then they are mil-spec.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #93 on: December 14, 2012, 07:53:20 AM »
Quote from: Swampman on December 14, 2012, 07:52:18 AM
As long as the pins meet some mil-spec then they are mil-spec.

same for all parts not just the ones you like ...........
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Offline cjclemens

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #94 on: December 14, 2012, 08:23:25 AM »
Quote
As long as the pins meet some mil-spec then they are mil-spec.

I love circular logic, too.  It makes every argument so very simple....

If a rock is made of rock, then its a rock....right?
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #95 on: December 14, 2012, 08:37:57 AM »
I work on military hardware all day long.  You either get it or you don't.  A pin made out of a 10 penny nail isn't mil-spec.  You have to look through the box car full of paperwork that goes with every mil-spec part to understand why a 79 cent pin can cost $500.00 when the government buys it.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #96 on: December 14, 2012, 09:34:36 AM »
and  we all saw the 60 min program where the guy went to the local hardware store and got bolts re boxed them and sold the to the govt. to be used on jet planes . He did up the price alot and insured the bolts .
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #97 on: December 14, 2012, 09:37:07 AM »
He broke the law, and they aren't mil-spec bolts.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #98 on: December 14, 2012, 09:45:03 AM »
Well how do you know ? the bolts may have passed testing . I have worked on bases for Army , AirForce and Navy and can tell you for a fact that a lot of mil spec material is not made or aval. and off shore parts are suplemented . One job the spec. a speical circuit setter valve that was to be made in the USA and the only place that makes them is in Sweeden . They turned their heads and the valves got installed.
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Offline SharonAnne

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #99 on: December 14, 2012, 02:00:31 PM »
they are mil spec, they are mil spec, they are mil spec, they are mil spec, they are mil spec, I think I can , I think I can, I think I can
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SharonAnne
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Offline rzwieg

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #100 on: December 14, 2012, 11:25:53 PM »
Quote from: SharonAnne on December 14, 2012, 02:00:31 PM
they are mil spec, they are mil spec, they are mil spec, they are mil spec, they are mil spec, I think I can , I think I can, I think I can

LOL!
 
For a short time I worked in a shop that made parts for Uncle Sugar. One part (a cover on a pump housing) had to be floor inspected 100% on all dimensions and all measurements recorded, then inspected on a CMM 100% for all positions. This was a very simple part and most tolerances were very generous. A 75 piece order had a stack of paperwork as thick as a Metro Milwaukee phonebook. This doesn't include foundry or outside painting records. NO nonconforming material made it to the customer. The government pays very well for all the hassle.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #101 on: December 18, 2012, 01:27:06 AM »
and the govt. is us .
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Offline SharonAnne

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #102 on: December 18, 2012, 02:58:27 AM »
shootal, sadly the gov is not us. It is the pablum sucking sheeple that follow the drivel of the obamanation.

We have more people on the govt teat than work at real producing jobs. Government jobs suck up tax money. They create nothing. Then there are the multi generation families on 'welfare' who have 2 cars, color tv, A/C, and cable. Only in the USA are these people considered POOR.
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SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #103 on: December 18, 2012, 08:59:45 AM »
SA wish I had a good rebutal but I don't . Sad very sad.
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #104 on: December 19, 2012, 02:14:15 PM »
Re: Opinions on AR




a good investment in a dozen
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Offline SharonAnne

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #105 on: December 20, 2012, 07:06:38 AM »
right now I have only one AR15, an AR15A2 with an Aimpoint on the handle. I got lucky and the trigger is pretty good.
 
 I have two bare lowers. On one I put a GI trigger assembly, what a POS.
 
 I had a small windfall and am going to build a nice mid/long range AR15. It will start with a VLTOR heavy wall upper receiver and a Kreiger heavy fluted barrel of 22" ( I think ). Locally we have 300, 500 and 1000 yd ranges. Any suggestions on a scope? I am thinking of a Bushnell 4.5-30X50 probably with a Mil Dot. I know the Nightforce 12-42X56 is the more popular for 1000 yd shooting but it is also more that twice the $$.

Since most of our shooting is in the winter it is with gloves on. I am thinking a 4-4.5# trigger. 

Opinions on anything?
 
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SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #106 on: January 02, 2013, 06:32:43 PM »
Quote from: SharonAnne on December 20, 2012, 07:06:38 AM
right now I have only one AR15, an AR15A2 with an Aimpoint on the handle. I got lucky and the trigger is pretty good.
 
 I have two bare lowers. On one I put a GI trigger assembly, what a POS.
 
 I had a small windfall and am going to build a nice mid/long range AR15. It will start with a VLTOR heavy wall upper receiver and a Kreiger heavy fluted barrel of 22" ( I think ). Locally we have 300, 500 and 1000 yd ranges. Any suggestions on a scope? I am thinking of a Bushnell 4.5-30X50 probably with a Mil Dot. I know the Nightforce 12-42X56 is the more popular for 1000 yd shooting but it is also more that twice the $$.

Since most of our shooting is in the winter it is with gloves on. I am thinking a 4-4.5# trigger. 

Opinions on anything?
If most of your shooting is going to be in the winter with gloves on, I would definitely consider getting the "enhanced trigger guard" made by Magpul.  They make them in aluminum or polymer, both will work.  It'll give you a little more room for your gloved trigger finger.  They might not be "mil-spec".  BTW, I really don't want to get drawn into that "discussion".

In reality, it's not really needed since you can fold the original trigger guard down to access the trigger easily with gloves, but if you want the trigger guard in place.....
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Offline SharonAnne

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #107 on: January 02, 2013, 07:09:58 PM »
Thank you Ranger.
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SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #108 on: January 03, 2013, 05:16:28 AM »
I have that on my AR and like it. And yes the mill spec. thing has been beat to death. Like the trigger guard is not MS but much better for many.  ;D
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Offline SharonAnne

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #109 on: January 03, 2013, 06:05:44 AM »
mil spec is irrelevant if what you have does what you want it to do.
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SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #110 on: January 03, 2013, 06:36:49 AM »
Quote from: SharonAnne on January 03, 2013, 06:05:44 AM
mil spec is irrelevant if what you have does what you want it to do.

yep !
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #111 on: January 03, 2013, 08:39:08 AM »
Quote from: Cuts Crooked on November 17, 2012, 07:25:33 PM
My oldest son is wanting to add an AR to his stable. Thinking about buying him one for Christmas.
 
Wondering if any of you have any experiance with this one: http://www.star15.com/DSC_MIDNIGHTDRAGON.html
 
Good? Bad? Indifferent?


did you get it or not?......did  i miss where you posted?
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when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #112 on: January 03, 2013, 11:13:49 AM »
Quote from: 45-70.gov on January 03, 2013, 08:39:08 AM
Quote from: Cuts Crooked on November 17, 2012, 07:25:33 PM

did you get it or not?......did  i miss where you posted?

Yes, I got it for him, and it arrived in time to be under the tree on Christmas day. Actually, I WANT that rifle....and I have never had any real desire to own a "black gun". It is a work of gun makers art!

But......I have been reluctant to comment, given the recent events involving a school shooting, since my son is autistic. I hope you understand.
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Offline SharonAnne

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #113 on: January 03, 2013, 02:31:19 PM »
Totally understand. Did he say "nice gun"?
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SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #114 on: January 04, 2013, 12:52:11 PM »
Quote from: SharonAnne on January 03, 2013, 02:31:19 PM
Totally understand. Did he say "nice gun"?

Yes. :)
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Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #115 on: January 04, 2013, 03:00:45 PM »
Excellent (thumbs up)
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SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline buckweet

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #116 on: January 12, 2013, 05:51:40 AM »
Quote from: NYH1 on November 20, 2012, 01:42:49 PM
Let us also keep in mind that a "Mil-Spec" M4 is a 14.5" barrel "select fire" (semi-auto/burst or semi-auto/full auto) carbine. . . . ."NOT" a 16" barrel semi-auto carbine. . . . .that's a AR15 carbine. Calling a AR15 carbine a M4 is like calling a AR15 20" rifle a M16. . . . .not the same, not at all!

 
Also, you'll be VERY hard pressed to shoot 1/2 MOA groups with either a M4, M16, AR15 carbine or AR15 rifle if they have a chrome lined bore. . . . .which ALL "Mil-Spec" M4 and M16 variants will have. I
 
The chrome line bore helps with ease of maintenance, durability and bore life but has a real negative effect on accuracy. Anyone that was in the military or that has really world experience with chrome line bore M4, M16, AR15 carbines and AR15 rifles would know this.


i beg to differ .. but ... i have three bushmaster barrels and twoFNMI barrels .. all chromed ..
they shoot very very well . one of the FN barrels has shot 1/2 @ 100 .. with lake city ..


NYH1.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Opinions on AR
« Reply #117 on: November 27, 2019, 05:05:46 AM »
Let's bring this one back up and see if folks might want to talk more about it.
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