Minimum 357 load for deer hunting? (Chrono data added 12/2/12)

[Redhawk1]

  I've shot watermelons and canteloupes from 25yds with redline .45 colt and the effects weren't much different honestly.  My problem is a fear of gun abuse, h-110 will top anything else for sure, it's just a question of whether or not you're going to chew your gun up with it.... if you have a lot of expendable money to buy a new gun or two then go all out.

You will be hard pressed to hurt a Ruger Blackhawk, Redhawk or GP100 with  hot loads, as long as they are with in the pressure limits. Same goes for S&W 686's. You will hurt the gun more, with a heavy for caliber bullets due to backthrust. We are talking hunting handguns here, not an old time colt or small J frame 357 Mag. H110 load date stays well within the pressure ranges for the 357 Mag.

I just sold my Ruger Blackhawk that I had for over 30 years, and I shot hot loads out of it all the time. The gun shows no damage whatsoever with over a few thousand heavy loaded 357 Mag loads.

[mattri]

That's a lot of why I got the Blackhawk, I don't intend to shoot over-pressure loads but its nice to know you have a strong frame to work with. 
 
 

[mattri]

Have had a lot of fun working on this project, thanks to all who have posted and helped out. 

Finally got a pound of H110 to try some loads, wanted to see how it actually compared to Unique when shot over a chronograph. 

For comparison's sake:
Hodgdon lists 16.7gr of H110 as delivering 1591fps using Hornady 158gr XTP.
Alliant lists 7.7gr of Unique as delivering 1040fps using a Speer GDHP.
Sierra lists 8.2gr of Unique as delivering 1100fps using their 158gr  jhp. 

The following were shot out of a Ruger Blackhawk, Win cases, Federal Match primers and 158gr Hornady XTPs.  All charges were weighed individually 3 times to ensure uniformity, a light crimp was applied and COL was checked on every case.  15 rounds were fired with each load. 

8gr of Unique delivered an average of 1225fps. 

16.5gr of H110 delivered an average of 1254fps. 

[Squib]

hey mattri did you crimp those bullets in HARD, because that makes a difference in the ammo that you can feel when you fire, it's that pronounced.  the recoil goes up and so does the consistency round to round.  I can all but GUARANTEE you that you'll not get good groups without the tightest of crimps.  if you don't have the case mouths into the cannelure AT LEAST chamfer the mouths good  and smooth inside and get them biting down into that jacket.  I know all guns and shooters are different but for me that cut the groups in half.

[mattri]

Case mouths were chamfered and a positive crimp right in the middle of the cannelure.  ES and SD were fine. 

[Squib]

it's weird that you would not gain a lot of speed out of the h-110.  you were on the "top" load-wise too.  for me ANYTHING I did to bump up pressure really made a difference with that powder, whether if was seating the bullets a tad deeper, running the rounds through the crimp twice, .1gr of powder variation, etcetera.  the 158gr bullets weren't as sensitive as the 125gr, for what it's worth.

I'm out of ideas. sorry.

if you're sick of that wimpy h-110 you can send it to me

[mattri]

Thanks for the reply, were you able to put your loads over a chronograph? 
 
Whats interesting is that Hodgdon lists their max load as delivering 1590fps but in their own testing with a 6" revolver they report 1200fps +/-, which is exactly what I saw yesterday. 
 
I wonder how many "full house" loads that guys "know" to be at max velocity are really in the same 1200fps range that you can get with half the charge of Unique, or some other powder. 
 
By no means am I bashing H110, if someone is using it and it is working for them then happy hunting.  This data just confirms the need to test loads. 

And while I appreciate the offer, a byddy with a 30 carbine has spoken for the powder:)

[Squib]

30 carbine, always wanted one (just because)

overlap with .357 maXimum BUT can use .308 bullets which would be a lot of fun to play with in a handgun... that's on my bucket list (so is a 6mm 30/30).

[jedman]

  My vote would be for the Barnes   .357 -  140 gr. XPB  HP.  I use them just for hunting because of there price but they shoot great and do massive damage.  Never recovered one.     Jed

[deerman406]

Never shot one with .357 magnum but my Dad shot plenty of them with his and he used the 158gr. XTP. Most were under 50 yards but a few a bit longer and I agree with the guys that used them,they performed very well. He always said the 180's did not expand as well and made the recoil more than he liked!! Shawn

[df06]

I shot some deer and antelope with a 357 Maximum, yes different than the 357 mag. The 180 XTP performed very well in the faster cartridge. Think I would stick with a 158 in your case.
Good luck

[PaulS]

I use a Ruger revolver with 140 grain JHP bullets I have loaded it to the OLD pressures of 42000 CUP with 19.1 grains of H110 and I get 1480 fps from a six inch barrel. The max load in my old Sierra manual calls 19.5 grains maximum. The old Winchester manual states 16.6 grains as max loading for the 158 JSP and I doubt that it is based on the 42000CUP original pressures that SAAMI publkished for the 357 Magnum but probably the 35000 CUP or the cureent 30000 PSI loads that SAAMI now recognizes as maximum because certain light frame revolvers were destroyed by the higher pressure loads. I don't believe that the Ruger large frame revolvers suffer from those weaknesses. I would not hesitate to load 16.6 grains of H110 behind a 158 grain bullet in my Ruger because I have done it many times when I first started to reload. I never experienced cases that stuck - they just fell out, or primers that showed any signs of excessive pressure , or short case life on any brass cases that I loaded. The nickel cases would split at the neck but that is not from over-pressure - it was from the nickel making the brass brittle and the heavy crimp I was using at the time.
As far as accuracy I would not use a 357 on game until I could group to 2" at the range that I was planning on using it. On deer size game I would have to limit the range to about 50 yards because beyond that range the power of the cartridge becomes marginal in my mind for taking a deer cleanly.

[Hunter6657]

The 16.7gr H110 load at 1591fps was chronographed in a 10" unported barrel.

[Groo]

Groo here
 Here a "rule of thumb" for you.
 A bullet with a flat nose that is between 64% and 80% of the bullet size or a Jsp.
 A weight of bullet and powder that gets you 1200fps or more from "your"gun.
 A load that you can hit with [I use a paper plate] 4 out of 6 times at your max distance off hand. As long as faster than 1200fps.
 
 If you hit the "Good stuff" you got meat.