Any true 1 MOA out of the box AR's

[WayneS]

WayneS - while I am a Colt fan and I do own one, for what you are wanting to do with the rifle the RRA may be the way to go. For P-Dogs I would want a 20" or 22" inch barrel, a free float forearm, and 1/8 or 1/9 twist for the heavier bullets.  The benefit of the RRA is that out of the box you get a 2-stage trigger and Wylde chamber.  RRA advertizes their varmint rifles as having 3/4 MOA or better.

Paul

KP, I would go with the RRA 20 ", version, but I can't find any, and the factory is saying 60-90+ days.
I WAS looking at the Armalite's version, {20" SS Bbl} but they use the 5.56 NATO version in their "T" models. Probably the same "generous" chambering in their AR-10's
 The hunt continues

[Swampman]

Swampman POWERBALL is almost a 1/2 billion dollars this drawing with your luck you should buy a ticket . 

50 years of shooting will improve your luck.

[SHOOTALL]

That's about how long I have been doing it 

[WayneS]

Aren't we carbon dating ourselfs 
KP, found a 24" RRA target/Varmint , still trying to talk myself into another 4.5 -5.0 # trigger

AIN'T IT ALWAYS SOMETHING

[SHOOTALL]

Swampman some here just can't play well with others

[darkgael]

I have a Colt Match Target, 1-8 twist. Out of the box, it shot 52 grain Sierra MKs into one half inch with the factory irons. That was at 100 yards. Nowadays, years later, I shoot Sierra 77s exclusively. One inch is normal from the bench.
Pete
PS - pic. The bull on the right is ten shots prone at 100, irons.... Can't say that it is an MOA group but I was happy with it.

[Spanky]

I just spent some time cleaning up this thread... let's keep things civil and on topic.
Thanks very much.
 
 
 
Spanky

[SharonAnne]

the older I get, the better I was

[Dixiejack]

Not to start an argument, but isn't a true minute of angle shot with 5 shots instead of three?  I've shot plenty of 100 yd. 3 shot "one holers" with off the shelf rifles, but very few with 5 rounds. 

[SharonAnne]

DixieJack, I think it depends on who you talk to. If I was talking about a competition rifle and the scoring for a 'string' was 10 rounds then I would not consider my rifle to be MOA capable unless it could put all ten in one MOA. If the 'strings' are 5 rounds then if it put 5 in one MOA then that would do it.

IIRC for F class rifle on the short ranges, 300, 500 and 600 yds, the 10 ring is ONE MOA. The X ring is one half MOA. For 900,1000 and 1100 yards they use the same target which uses the One MOA at 1000 yds as standard, so One MOA at 1000 yards is 10". The 'strings' are either 15 or 20 rds. A very tough standard indeed.

[Dinny]

Let's clear the air! Us, currently serving, military folks love and trust our M4s. Many of us are alive today because our M4s came to battery and killed an advancing, determined enemy. They have had their issues in the past, but there's not a senior leader out there that will allow a soldier to carry an untrustworthy rifle into battle. The M16/M4 has lasted as long as it has due to it's capability to get the job done. I work around SPECOPS every single day. Now they know their rifles! With all the choices available, they carry modified M4s. I saw a Delta dude weeks ago and he was carrying a SCAR. I asked him about it and he told me the next chance he has, he will go back to his M4.


I have nothing but good things to say about Rock River Arms. They have great triggers available. All their rifles come with an accuracy guarantee and they are usually more accurate than stated. I guess they just wanted to make sure they left some room.

[SharonAnne]

Dinny, thank you for the current report on our soldiers opinions on the M16/M4. I have been quite vocal about our soldiers having the best.

Thank you and your peers for your service. We are proud of you all.

[dmd1911]

I have a Les Baer Varmint match 24 inch heavy barrel...5 shot groups in the .300 range are very common....handloads are very good...and also shoots factory stuff well under a 1/2 moa...with a very good jewel trigger...a very boring gun to shoot..ha...just makes a hole

[SharonAnne]

so you do not know if they are all through one hole or you hit once and missed the paper the rest of the time? 

[Lloyd Smale]

before youll here me claim to have a moa gun on here or anywhere it will have to shoot moa for an average of an inch with 3 5 shot groups. I dont shoot 3 shot groups and i dont claim that one lucky 5 shot group is what my guns are capable of. Ive seen to many times where a 3 shot group opened to twice its size shooting 5 shots and ive seen again to many times where a 5 shot one inch group today was a 1.5 inch group tommarow.

Not to start an argument, but isn't a true minute of angle shot with 5 shots instead of three?  I've shot plenty of 100 yd. 3 shot "one holers" with off the shelf rifles, but very few with 5 rounds.

[Spanky]

In my opinion the only gun that is a TRUE moa gun is one that consistently shoots moa groups. Whether it's 3 shots or 5 shots or 20 shots... the group has to be moa each and every time. From one day to the next it must shoot repeatable moa groups regardless of the situation.
Very few guns are capable of such consistent accuracy and still fewer shooters are capable of it.
 
 
 
Spanky

[dmd1911]

Well..indeed mine were five shot groups..great rest...good conditions...i agree with the consistency of groups...when i bought this rifle it came with two five shot groups from the factory....one hole each...the last group i shot was three days ago...five shots .305.....these groups all the ti
e..nope...under a half....yes....i take pride in my handloads..and rifle...as you all do

[darkgael]

In my opinion the only gun that is a TRUE moa gun is one that consistently shoots moa groups. Whether it's 3 shots or 5 shots or 20 shots... the group has to be moa each and every time. From one day to the next it must shoot repeatable moa groups regardless of the situation.
Very few guns are capable of such consistent accuracy and still fewer shooters are capable of it. 

Ok. From what position should these groups be shot? The bench is for testing ammo and seeking out the best fit for the rifle in question. Practical accuracy involves shooting from a field position. Which? What sights?

Very few guns are capable of such consistent accuracy....

I disagree. A gun is a machine. If it properly constructed and maintained and fed consistently loaded ammunition, I suspect that there are many rifles that will shoot consistent MOA groups.
The limiting factors are the ammo, the shooter and the conditions, not the rifle.
Pete

[Swampman]

Field positions test nothing.  The rifle and the ammo are everything.  Few shooters can shoot MOA with anything even from the bench.

[dmd1911]

With todays technology...optics...ammo...gas guns that now shoot as good as bolt guns....not everyone can probably do it....but the chances have got a lot better...for everyone

[SharonAnne]

it is the interest in the AR15 that has driven the desire for more and more accurate rifles. I suspect that if you go to any range on an open shoot day that less than 10% of the AR15 present that day are capable of one 5 shot sub MOA group. They just are not built that way.  Go to the range on a day for 500 yd shooting and I bet over 90% of the AR15/shooter combinations would be capable of sub MOA at 100yds.
    The group of rifle/shooter combinations you select will determine the % that are capable of one 5 shot 1 MOA group.

It would be interesting to have someone get a 100yd 5 shot group from every AR15/shooter that showed up on a public range over a months time. The results would be enlightening. Or perhaps frightening.

If I was physically capable I would volunteer to do it. I would just need a ride to the range.

[Swampman]

Any correctly assembled AR with good ammo will shoot MOA.  Most shooters simply can't shoot.

[cjclemens]

You guys don't know nothin about accuracy. There's only one true test, and that's the "how many shots does it take to hit a running coyote from the passenger seat of a moving pickup truck test." If you do it in 5 shots or less, I reckon your rifle is pretty darned accurate.

All kidding aside, this thread has gotten pretty silly with all the arguing over semantics. 3 or 5 shots? Bench rest or prone? Optics or iron sights? Has anyone even considered why MOA is the standard of measurement? All of these things are arbitrary standards that can be used to make quality control assessments by the manufacturers. None of it has anything to do with practical accuracy or shooting skill. Not all rifles serve the same purpose, so why should they be held to the same standard? Not all shooters engage in the same shooting sports, so why should their skill be subject to comparison?

Everyone should have their own set of standards for their gear that's based on how they use it. I know when my rifle has failed to live up to my expectations. I also know when I've failed to live up to my expectations. A rifle is a mechanical device but, by nature of its design, it requires user input to function. As a result, both parts have to work together. The key to shooting well is knowing which part actually failed.

Anyway, I guess my point is that you have to be happy with how your rifle performs in your hands, based on your criteria - not someone else's.

[SharonAnne]

without a measurable standard we would have a world of super shooters. Each would be legend in his own mind. With the MOA standard, 5 rds at 100 yds, your choice of sights, bench or prone, we have a standard that can be measured on any range in the country. This measuring the rifles ability, not the shooter. Get a world class bench rest shooter to shoot your rifle, whatever.

If you can do that every time you hit the range, your rifle will be coveted.

[Buckskin]

You guys can argue all you want about the specific determination of a true MOA rifle.  But my little buddy in this picture didn't think so this morning at what he perceived to be a comfortable 370 yards from me.... Yep, it does it on paper too.

[SHOOTALL]

A rifle is like a mate only you need be impressed  .

[SHOOTALL]

And a rifles accuracy is a combination of bbl, action, ammo , sights and shooter ablity in concert. Then there is weather , location etc. Because you can set the gun up on bags and punch holes close together dosen't mean you can hit targets at unknown distances fron field positions . Yes a group shot at 100 yds by a good shooter can tell a bit about a rifle . But not all as some rifles group better at 300 yards than 100 yards .
  In the long run the shooter is as important as the equipment and both need to be in good shape. BTW a good shooter can call his shots ie; he knows when he made a bad shot or when the rifle is not so accurate.

[cjclemens]

without a measurable standard we would have a world of super shooters.

I disagree. If you aren't capable of knowing your own limits and abilities, you might as well hang it up right now. I'd like to think most people aren't quite that narcissistic. You'd have to think pretty highly of yourself, to think you're an expert marksman - regardless of what happens in the field or at the range. It's one thing to know what your rifle can do, but it's a far better thing to know what YOU can do with your rifle.

[dmd1911]

Very nice Buckskin...makes my butt shiver....dont see a lot of that white stuff in Texas...good shot...that is hauling the mail

[SharonAnne]

As the page title asked, "Any true 1 MOA OUT OF THE BOX AR's?"  We have strayed far afield. The question was about the RIFLE. If your OUT OF THE BOX AR shoots better at 300yd/M so be it. One MOA is a standard. Roughly one inch per 100yds. If your rifle consistently shoots sub 3" groups at 300 yds then you have a 1 MOA rifle.  I suggested 100 yds because there are a lot more 100yd ranges than 300. Pick your distance. One inch per 100 yds. I will not get picky over the minute (pronounce -  my noot) fractions of an inch I am ignoring.

Out of the box ARs need only apply. Any model.