Redhawk 44 barrel leading badly

[tacotime]

Not sure what's up with it. Had a perfectly clean barrel, Went out and shot 18 rounds of Laser Cast 240 SWC with 9 - 10.5 Unique, and the first 1.5 inches of the barrel pretty much plated in lead, with streaks out from there. Same result with 18-20 of 2400. Takes about 40 minutes to clean each time. The loads appear in the mid range. The bore is not rough. I notice these are sized at .431.

What do you think the problem is?

Is the .431 too large?  Most others seem to be .430.

Load not hot enough? (some are near published max)

Lube insufficient?

Thanks.

 

[bosephus]

 the first thing that comes to my mind is you need to actualy measure and see what the real dia of the bullets are   and then  slug and measure your cylinder throats .

 wont matter how big a dia the bullet is going in if the throats are swedging them to small on the way out .

 i'd lay money that your throats are a touch undersized  , like a lot of rugers tend to be



 

[woods]

     There's lots of possibilities, slug your barrel first. Buy a lewis lead remover, to get the lead out quickly, lead in your barrel makes more lead in the barrel very quickly. I'm a diehard unique fan, it usually burns dirty but quite accurate, I would guess if your barrel was clean it must be the lube. I've had to run some  bullets through the sizer because the lube probably got over heated during shipping, and were kind of stuck together in the box. My 2 cents.
 
     woods

[mauser98us]

Perhaps slugs are too soft. When I had my S&w 29 , I ran fairly hard slugs over a full dose of WW296 with no leading or gas checks. No leading at all.Your gun might also benefit from having the forcing cone squared up and opened a bit as well.Nice thing about cast is if you get the problems solved,shoot plenty of rounds, the bore gets lapped to a mirror chrome finish.Then the velocities jump pretty well due to minimal friction.

[tacotime]

I used the Lewsi - after about 8-10 runs, still lead left.  Used SC Lead Remover and copper brush to scrub.
 
Bullets are 24 BHN per Laser-cast.  Can't imagine they're too soft, although maybe too hard.
 
The bullets used measured .431.
 
I need to slug the barrel.  I didn't know I could slug the chambers, but I will. (update - I dropped the .431 slug through each chamber, and it slides through easily, though it seems like a snug fit.  It did not take any pushing to slip through each of them.)  Is that good or bad?
 
I heard Lee liquid Alox might help?

[keith44]

I use .432" laser cast in my Ruger Super Red Hawk pushed by 23.0 grains of W296 with no leading problems.  These have to be pushed through the cylinder throats, but pass with only moderate pressure. 


The lube is running out if you have lead near the muzzle, if the lead is near the breech or cylinder, then it is a bullet size or hardness issue.

[Bigeasy]

Take an oversized soft lead bullet and slug your barrel.  Then, using a set of "pin gauges", check the diameter of your cylinder throats.  Ideally, they will match.  Most likely, they wont.  If your throats are undersized, upon firing, they will swage the bullet down to that size, allowing for a poor fit in the barrel, and hot gasses to escape around the bullets base, causing the type of leading you are experiencing.  The proper cure is to have the throats opened up to match your barrels grove diameter.  If your throats are oversize, then load bullets that match the throat.  They will swage down to bore diameter upon firing.
 
It is also possible that you have a rough bore.  A gunsmith with a bore scope could take a look and see.  If that is the case, a return to Ruger, or fire lapping is in order.  Also, it is possible that there is a constriction where the barrel screws into the frame, causing symptoms similar to under sized throats,  If you push a dry patch down a clean barrel, and feel it tighten near the frame / barrel junction, then this may be the case.
 
Gas checks often help to reduce leading in problem guns.
 
You could also take a number of bullets, and remove the lube, and replace it with another type of your choice and see if the leading continues.  That would help rule out the lube as the problem.
 
My experience is the type of leading you are getting is usually a result of undersize throats swaging the bullet down to far, and allowing gas cutting around the base.  As was also noted by other posters, it is important to remove all lead from the barrel before testing, as once leading starts, it accumulates quickly, destroying accuracy, and making for harder removal.  The Lewis Lead Remover works well, as does Chore Boy copper scrub pad pot cleaner, wrapped around an old cleaning brush.  Don't worry about hurting your bore, as the copper is much softer then the steel used in the barrel, just be cautious of not rubbing the cleaning rod against the muzzle while scrubbing, as that will cause wear and hurt accuracy over a period of time.
 
Larry

[tacotime]

Good advice, still working...

So, if the bore is actually .429 and the cast bullet is .431, I read the bullet will be swaged down when fired... so does the bullet get compressed or is some lead shaved off, maybe then instantly becoming lead deposits in the bore? Is an oversized bullet (even at .002 over) an obvious cause of leading?

[cybin]

I had a similar problem with a .357 taurus--I pulled the bullets and bought another box of a different brand---after using the lewis lead remover--that seemed to solve my problem. Now I have a box of lead bullets that either the lube isn't any good on them or the lead is too soft---I haven't decided what to do with them at this time--may just make fishing weights out of them someday.
 
cybin

[mdi]

Good advice, still working...

So, if the bore is actually .429 and the cast bullet is .431, I read the bullet will be swaged down when fired... so does the bullet get compressed or is some lead shaved off, maybe then instantly becoming lead deposits in the bore? Is an oversized bullet (even at .002 over) an obvious cause of leading?

Nope, those measurements are near perfect. That is if the cylinder throats are .431". The .002" will swage down, sealing the bore, preventing leading. Leading near the beginning of the barrel is often from undersized bullets not sealing the bore and allowing hot gas to melt the sides of the bullet, leading the barrel. You need to know the actual dimentions of your gun to work on your leading problem, actual measurements, not what they are "supposed to be". So, slug the barrel (a few times) and measure the cylinder throats (pin guage is best, but soft lead slug will work too). I size the bullets to the same size as the cylinder throats (my Ruger, S&W 629, and Dan Wesson have .431" throats with .429" groove dia. ,and the D.W. .430").

[tacotime]

Well I managed to slug the barrel and it appears to have a restriction at the frame.  Slug measured .428, but it was not pure lead so I need to re-do it, because I had a smaller measurement on a rough first attempt with a lead sinker.

Throats accept a .432 pin but not a .433 pin.  No .4325 pin here but it's coming.  Leading was seen with .431 bullets. Someone suggested the lube might be burning off in the cylinder and gap, leaving little for the cone.

Muzzle will accept a .417 pin but not a .419.  I am missing the .418 and half-sizes but they're coming.

This blue gun looks like a candidate for fire lapping and larger bullets. Ordered .432 to start and a lapping kit.

[tacotime]

Thanks for the guidance.

[Bigeasy]

Let us know how the lapping kit works for you.
 
Larry

[tacotime]

Just at the end of the analysis I decided to take a closer look at the forcing cone.  It was hard to tell by naked eye so I did this by taking a digital "macro" close up photo and enlarging it.  Shocked...  The cone was terrible.  Totally scored with machine marks in concentric circles stepping into the bore.  Really poor work.  I have since lightly lapped it and polished, and it looks much better but the deeper marks are still there. 
 
How about the Brownell's 11 degree chamfering kit?

[keith44]

how about a call to Ruger and see if they will help?

[tacotime]

Ruger service said "they would like to take a look at it" but I hate to ship firearms and am a little hard-headed about wanting to learn and fix things myself...  so it looks like a cone chamfering, fire-lapping, and larger bullets are the current treatment plan.

[keith44]

Ruger service said "they would like to take a look at it" but I hate to ship firearms and am a little hard-headed about wanting to learn and fix things myself...  so it looks like a cone chamfering, fire-lapping, and larger bullets are the current treatment plan.

LOL, don't blame ya there... go careful and it should work out just fine

[mdi]

Ruger service said "they would like to take a look at it" but I hate to ship firearms and am a little hard-headed about wanting to learn and fix things myself...  so it looks like a cone chamfering, fire-lapping, and larger bullets are the current treatment plan.

I think I'd start with the easiest remedy, and do one change/fix at a time. First, larger bullets, if that doesn't change anything, then champher the forcing cone. And then as a final "repair" I'd fire lap, mainly because this step is the most time consuming. Also by doing one fix at a time you will know exactly why your gun was leading and use the info for future firearms work/info...