Author Topic: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle  (Read 1321 times)

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Offline hillbill

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non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« on: November 21, 2012, 12:49:13 PM »
i have 2 inline rifles, a rem 700ml and a ruger 77/50. im looking for a bullet like a maxi or mini or real bullet in 50 cal i can cast myself from pure lead or wheelwheights that will eliminate the need for a sabot. i dont know my twist rate rite now.have any of you guys done this and ended up with a accurate load? ill be shooting real black powder also and both guns use 209 primers.also what lube do yu use on them?

Offline Underclocked

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2012, 05:22:29 PM »
You can determine your twist rate by using a ramrod that rotates freely as it is inserted in the bore.  Put a TIGHT patched jag on the bore, then insert it to the plug.  Mark a spot on the rod to use as an index.  Then slowly remove the rod, allowing it to turn freely.  Just as the patched jag clears the rifling, make another mark on the rod.  Measure the distance the rod traveled in the bore, then make your best estimate of how much of a revolution the rod turned during that travel.  From there you should be able to calculate the distance the rod would have needed to travel one full revolution.  That will correspond to your twist. 

Example:  your index marks are separated by ~90% of one full revolution.  The rod moved 26" while being withdrawn.   26 divided by .9 =  28.8 so your twist is very likely 1:28"

The other thing you need to do is drive a slightly oversized slug of soft lead into your bore a few inches, then gently tap it out.  Use a caliper to determe minimum diameter measurement where the lead is showing marks from you rifling's lands.  That will tell you the bore size you need to try to cast or size.  I would go no more than .001" greater than that measurement and 0 below that measurement.

Both of your rifles are probably either 1:24 or 1:28" twist and that is not such a critical difference in making your choice of bullet.  Now the bad news, there just isn't much by way of current production molds available (aside from the mini's and maxi's) for the .50 caliber.   If you get lucky and your land to land turns out to be .501", a Lee mold for the .500 S&W handgun ( C501-440-RF ) might work quite well.  http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-c501-440-rf.html   Lee also sells a .501 sizing kit.

Making bullets that are right at bore size has the advantage of providing a "slip fit" in your rifle, making a short starter unnecessary.   

Aside from that one mold... the reality is that you will probably have to go custom - if you don't want to shoot the maxi/mini types and hammer your palm.   I WISH Lee had made the UC Short mold a production item, but they did not.  There are some few older molds by Lyman that could work well and you might find something on eBay that would work.  http://www.ebay.com/sch/Hunting-/7301/i.html?_nkw=%28mold%29%2C+%28mould%29&_armrs=1&_from=R10&_ipg=&_mPrRngCbx=1&_pcats=159043%2C382&_sop=1&_udhi=&_udlo=

Use the purest lead you can lay your hands on for casting any such bullet.   
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Offline Underclocked

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2012, 05:48:22 PM »
I just looked through 1,230 molds on eBay  ::) .   This is the nearest thing I could find that might suit your purpose.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/510-375-BB-NEI-2-Cav-Alum-Bullet-mold-mould-molds-/130806751175?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e74b09fc7

It would need to be cast in pure lead, sized to just over your land-land measure, and is probably a bit on the light side for a 1:24 twist.  Might work well in 1:28 or 1:32 twist barrels.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2012, 06:14:53 PM »
will the lee r.e.a.l. bullets work for you?
i've shot some in my t.c. (1:48) that
worked ok .
used lee liquid alox for lube.


(and of course pure lead)
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Offline theratdog

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2013, 09:16:43 PM »
i picked up a black diamond 50 cal as soon as i get the red dot scope mounted im going to try the lee real bullets. in mine have used them in my tc new englander and hawkin's they shot ok. :)

Offline Huntsman2

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2013, 05:10:39 PM »
Use PURE LEAD. Or make sure you bring a mallet with you to the range when you shoot with WW lead casts.
I know this from experience ;)

Offline Nobade

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2013, 10:24:36 AM »
The RCBS bullet designed for the 500 S&W works quite well in my Ruger 77/50, as it does in others. It carries enough lube for multiple shots. Just cast from 20:1 or softer and lube with SPG or some other good BP lube. Size to be bore size or a touch under. Should load with the weight of the ramrod. A felt wad between the bullet and powder and you're in business.

Another good bullet is the Lee 500 S&W one. It doesn't carry enough lube but sized down and paper patched to also be a slip fit in the bore and it will shoot lights out too.


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Offline Idaho Ron

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2013, 03:56:11 PM »
Nobade is correct. the Lee 500 S&W bullet shoots fantastic when paper patched. I have used these for years and they work well on game. Also they shoot very well out of Remington's.   Ron

Offline Underclocked

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2013, 08:53:43 AM »
Nobade, that RCBS .500 S&W mold...  what diameter does it drop them at?? 
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2013, 09:35:28 AM »
The Lee R E A L bullet works in my Encore , it worked in Knight Wolverene (sp) . The 1 in 20 something is good for bullets like the REAL bullet . Remember the 1 in 48 twist was a comprise to allow round ball and maxie ball to be shot in the same gun.
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Offline Nobade

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2013, 03:04:43 PM »
Nobade, that RCBS .500 S&W mold...  what diameter does it drop them at??

It's about .502" if I remember correctly.
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Offline Underclocked

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2013, 06:09:34 PM »
Thanks.  Not quite big enough for what I was thinking.   :(
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Offline Nobade

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Re: non sabot bullet in a sabot type rifle
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2013, 01:50:39 AM »
I am surprised. I have to size that bullet down to fit both my Ruger and Remington barrels. The Ruger is a touch bigger but it won't load in either without sizing. Remember, you want it to load with the weight of the ramrod. .0005 - .001 smaller than the rifle's bore.
"Give me a lever long enough, and a place to stand, and I'll break the lever."