Author Topic: My apologies.. (Read 1412 times)

ironglow · « **on:** November 22, 2012, 02:02:58 PM »

Yes, my apologies to George Washington, Patrick Henry and the troops at valley forge..to those who sacrificed themselves at the Alamo. To those courageous Billy Yanks and Johnny Rebs who bled at Manassas & Shiloh...and wept a Appomattox Court House.
My apologies to those who rode up San Juan Hill..into the fierce fire of 7mm Mausers..to the doughboys who died in the trenches of Europe and their sons who raised the stars & stripes over Paris, Bonn and Iwo Jima...and the "Frozen Chosen of Korea.
My hearty regrets to those who faced the AK47 and pungee spikes in the jungles of Vietnam..and our brave men & women who are even today dying from I.E.D.s and treacherous, lying.. "inbeds"..having faced a most barbarian enemy in Iraq & Afghanistan
Yes; my sincere apologies for what some of our fellow citizens ...have spat on your sacrifices and did even worse on the graves of your fellow troops.........
The letter passed to me from a friend so aptly explains it..for me too;.. how we thought we knew Americans...but we were wrong..
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Well, It's official; I don't know anything.

I thought for sure that given such a clear choice, Americans would vote for love of country over revenge.

I was wrong.

I thought, that just as every presidential election in my lifetime, the bad economy would be hung around the incumbent's neck, sinking him.

I was wrong.

I thought that even those few Americans who were fortunate enough to still be fully employed (not counting those leeching off the public system) would be cognizant of how much pain their neighbors were in and elect someone who would at least try to make improvements.

I was wrong.

I thought that now that FINALLY some of the disturbing truths about our first black president had come to light, voters would reject a man so dangerously at odds with the American experience.

I was wrong.

I thought the 2010 elections and the Tea Party meant something.

I thought the enthusiasm on display at Romney/Ryan events, contrasted with the lack of same at Obama/Biden events meant something.

I thought Americans would never sell their liberty for the sake of trinkets like cell phones or even big shiny lies like 'free health care'.

I was wrong.

Never in a million years would I have supposed that America would support a president who left his (our) people to die at the hands of our enemies overseas without lifting a hand to help, then lie about what he watched in real time for over two weeks, then lie about the lie for another month.

I was wrong.

I thought Americans could tell a hawk from a handsaw.

I was wrong.

We were offered the clearest choice we've has since 1980, where we had malaise and a misery index on one hand and a shining city on a hill on the other. Back then, we chose the city on the hill. This time the choice was between a man who says 7.9% unemployment and $4.00 gas is the new normal and a guy whose entire career has been about fixing broken entities.

We chose to stay broken. And Broke.

Maybe I'm wrong about the ramifications of this choice. Maybe windmills will actually turn out to be a viable energy source. Maybe America diminished will be loved overseas. Maybe a nuclear Iran won't be a threat. Maybe Israel is over reacting. Maybe western civilization was always over rated. Maybe life under sharia is fun. Maybe when the rest of the world realizes that we have no intention of ever paying back that $16,000,000,000,000.00 (and counting) that we've borrowed from them, they won't devalue the dollar, causing hyper inflation here at home. Maybe China will just keep on giving us money and not demand our hearts, souls, national monuments and marriageable daughters as payment.

I've watched my candidate lose elections before but I've never felt the way I did last night when this one was called for Obama.

It wasn't bitterness or sadness or even disappointment. It took me a while to figure out what it was. Then it hit me; it was horror.

Pure, unadulterated horror.

Not because of Obama, but because of what it says about us, the American people, that we chose this.

It shouldn't have even been close. Faced with the choice between taking charge of our destiny and tackling our financial problems, we opted to get high and have sex. We re elected a guy who doesn't understand that a growing economy that creates more tax payers will bring in more revenue than higher taxes. A Commander in Chief who doesn't know our military still uses bayonets. A man who wants to control the economy without even knowing the difference between bankruptcy and liquidation. It was one thing to elect an unknown quantity, buying his line of 'Hope and Change'. It's something else to deliberately choose his failed policies over someone who has actually achieved success in life. I never dreamed America would do that.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, Hello Idiocracy!

Goodbye, recovery.

Goodbye, energy independence.

Goodbye, religious liberty.

Goodbye, liberty and justice for all.

Goodbye, America dream.

It profits a man nothing to lose his soul for the whole world but we threw ours away for cell phones and birth control pills.

In the twentieth century (the American Century), we stepped up to the plate three times and saved the rest of the world from fascism, nazism and communism. We were the cavalry, always riding to the rescue.

Now, we've gotten rid of our horses, spent all our money on windmills, alienated our allies, bowed to our enemies, cut ourselves off from our own natural resources thrown away our children's birthright and spent their inheritance.

And we did it on purpose.

When the wolf is at the door (and he's coming, yelling 'Allahu Akbar') we're going to find out that there is no one out there to come to our rescue.

On the bright side, maybe it'll all turn out great. After all, I don't know anything.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2012, 02:21:43 AM »

Anna · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2012, 04:14:48 AM »

You know plenty IG. The only sin we as a nation commented in that election was that we stood by and allowed corruption to rule the day. On both sides not just one, America has always showed
up late to any global conflict, this time it just happens to be our own.
It's aways happened somewhere else and not here so we still have a thing or two to learn yet about
what to do about it. Out of an entire generation that said the pledge of allegiance before each day
in our classrooms we were conditioned to respect our government. Thinking it had our best interest
in mind. If it now doesn't then is that our fault? It's only taking some time for that to sink in is all.

We were not exactly prepared for what happened at Pearl Harbor either, and it took a few months
of us getting our tails whipped to wake up and smell the roses. I still have not heard any fat lady
singing about the American demise, and we did not go help any country before we saw that they
to we're willing to fight for themselves first. So I can't go along with we will not get any help,
no one ever likes a loser who will not stand up to evil. We have seen this going on all over the world
now for years, just like we watched Hitler for years it took a pivotal event to get our attention that
all that could in fact show up on our shores also.

Well it showed up on our shores even today and we have yet to do a whole lot about it. Except act
like a police department in the lands where it was congregating instead of going in like the soldiers
in WW2 did. Twice now we have done this and it didn't work the first time and it isn't working now.
This is not how America fights wars, so as a result it has permiated our government to the core.
It's the same old same old, if Hitler or Stalin could see this now they would have taken a lesson from
our current enemy's instead of an expensive arms race that put both of them into bankruptsey.

It comes down to a wise saying that was used by our own Souix Indians, just ask Custer if you can.
( A true warriors strength in battle is judged only by who it is that he calles his enemy's )

nw_hunter · « **Reply #3 on:** November 23, 2012, 05:04:56 AM »

LOL! Well, you have taken the first step in recovery, and are seeing half the problem we have as a nation.When you completely recover, you will see the evil in the other party and won't have anything to do with them as well. Then, there will be no need to apologize.

Anna · « **Reply #4 on:** November 23, 2012, 05:13:56 AM »

No kidding, it's like the only choise we had was between dumb or dumber. Niether of them stood out
as a whole different than what we had and still do. So we can't with any logic blame either left or
right when they were both the same actor wearing a mask with two faces.

finisher · « **Reply #5 on:** November 23, 2012, 08:56:11 AM »

You live in what is still the best nation in which to live anywhere. Compared to most in this world, even the lowest income earners in this country live a life of privilege. You live in FEAR!! And you deserve to live in FEAR.

The world still turns and change is inevitable.
What? You thought that things were going to be "good 'ol Christian American 1950's apple pie forever!!??

As far as General Custer is concerned, I think he would have done much better against a bunch of barely literate Muslim goat herders than he did against the American Indian.

What is happening to those in America (or their descendents) that have thrived upon the rape and murder of the past is merely a retribution and an act of grace in itself. Your time is over and this fate will fall upon the sons of America "seven fold" (just had to throw that biblical thing in there

).

Accountability is at hand, but who sees it this way depends entirely upon the perspective from which it is perceived.

Anna · « **Reply #6 on:** November 23, 2012, 10:37:20 AM »

Oh I agree, and until we do something to stop what's happening. This country will not remain the
best one to live in for long.
Your preaching to the choir, so until we decide to change the song. It's going to be more of the same
no matter what !

BUGEYE · « **Reply #7 on:** November 23, 2012, 11:09:58 AM »

Yes we need to apologize to the heros that went before us. and we owe our biggest apology to God.
we need to stop it with the inflated EGOs, and quit calling each other names.

If we don't come back to God, we are doomed.

srussell · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2012, 11:42:45 AM »

its hard to change when you rob peter to pay Paul.Paul is not going to stop stealing from peter .unless peter stops giving it to them

m-g Willy · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2012, 12:27:52 PM »

Not because of Obama, but because of what it says about us, the American people, that we chose this.

And some people don't understand my (( "poor loser? nope!" )) thread

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2012, 06:07:28 PM »

I suppose admitting you're wrong, when you are, is a good move... prob with this character is, he doesn't know what he's wrong about, that he's wrong about some of the things he thinks he's right about...

ironglow · « **Reply #11 on:** November 24, 2012, 01:26:28 AM »

Quote from: finisher on November 23, 2012, 08:56:11 AM

You live in what is still the best nation in which to live anywhere. Where one half lives their lives off the other half? That only angers those who produce and cultivates hateful shame among those who never have, nor ever will be productive Compared to most in this world, even the lowest income earners in this country live a life of privilege. At least for a while You live in FEAR!! And you deserve to live in FEAR. I don't live in fear, I am old and have a much better future awaiting me....I do however, have concerns for those of following generations who would have been observant and learned our history and yearn for us to become a decent and noble people.

The world still turns and change is inevitable. Change is inevitable ("everything flows" ..Heracticlus ca 500 BC) ...But if we atre a worthwhile people, we should change for the better..not change the good for degradation. ..Not "trade our birthright for a mess of pottage.".
What? You thought that things were going to be "good 'ol Christian American 1950's apple pie forever!!?? Perhaps it is because my frame of reference is larger and more circumspect, I know the difference. No the 50s were not near perfect, but frankly, except for some medical and technical advances and certain improvements in civil rights, the 50s was a much better America.
No locks needed on the house or garage, business done with a handshake, religious tolerance greater, a certain decorum when in public, and myriad other cultural norms that made for a more polite and predictable citizenry. "Black Friday" riots, drunkeness, drugs, debauchery, lying, unwed pregnancy, neglectful parenting, cheating at anything, and moral degradation of any kind carried a certain, earned stigma..which amounted to a "moral compass", which in turn resulted to a culture being all aimed in the same direction, unlike today..where we have been divided by opportunistic politicians, radical feminists, poverty pimps, animal rightsers, foreigners who claim OUR "constitutional rights, 'greenies" who butt into every facet of our lives and every other ambidextrous monkey jumper splinter group that come along.
We have ourselves, seen certain polliticians, poverty pimps etc ..intentionally divide us..and others who have been "dumbed down" by a socialist educational system ..fall for the whole package..
I have lived through the 50s and all decades since..the downfall of this nation started in the mid 60s ..and has not relented or abated since.. I have witnessed it..perhaps you haven't! Perhaps you haven't witnessed half of it..

As far as General Custer is concerned, I think he would have done much better against a bunch of barely literate Muslim goat herders than he did against the American Indian. I don't know how Custer entered into this, but there is a lesson to be learned even here. Crazy horse's tactics were great...but his strategy was faulty. Read up on what happened AFTER the Little big Horn.. Sitting Bull should have sued for peace.

What is happening to those in America (or their descendents) that have thrived upon the rape and murder of the past (proves instruction by a bigoted instructor)is merely a retribution and an act of grace in itself.
Your wording seems to indicate you are not necessarily"one of us", but perhapsforeign bornn.. and so, do not shoulder this "blame" you are so eager to place.. If so, that's fine..we are a nation of immigrants...but why bother coming here if we are such a bad people?
Your time is over and this fate will fall upon the sons of America "seven fold" (just had to throw that biblical thing in there ).(Just as if you knew the subject) Am I supposed to be ashamed to be a "son of America"? Of what entity are you a "son of"? What nation has such a sterling past that it can hold another to ridicule? Even if it is one of the Indian nations..remember, nobody, no nation is perfect

Accountability is at hand, but who sees it this way depends entirely upon the perspective from which it is perceived. Accountability from who and by whom? Please answer this question...

Please answer.. Accountability from who and by whom?

ironglow · « **Reply #12 on:** November 24, 2012, 01:39:05 AM »

Quote from: yellowtail3 on November 23, 2012, 06:07:28 PM

I suppose admitting you're wrong, when you are, is a good move... prob with this character is, he doesn't know what he's wrong about, that he's wrong about some of the things he thinks he's right about...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Whoever "this character" is, he sounds more rational than your post above..it appears a bit disjointed..

magooch · « **Reply #13 on:** November 24, 2012, 04:47:48 AM »

I'm still not quite sure what really happened. Did the Dumycrats finally figure out the perfect way to rig elections, or did over half the poopulation get caught with their heads in a dark smelly place. Just exactly what is it that the Obamunist supporters think is going to happen now? Is is really all about revenge--getting even with those who have made something of their lives and aren't beholding to the government for their next handout?

The more I"ve thought about it, the more I actually place a big part of the blame for the mess we find our country in on GWB. I remember when, after 9-11 we went out to avenge that dastardly deed. There was nothing wrong with that, not even going after Saddam Hussein was a bad move. As I said at the time, he and his sons were going to be a vey big problem for us sooner, or later. I said at the time that we had maybe six months to get in, rip that $#!thole to pieces--along with Afghanistan and leave both places a stinking, steaming pile of dung for the world to see what happens when you step on Superman's cape. We did a pretty decent job of tearing those places to pieces, but we screwed up by thinking we had to stay and build it back.

That sewed the seeds of what we are now suffering with. The people just got tired of the endless overseas commitments and the endless procession of mutilated GIs coming home with horrible injuries. Protracted wars have never turned out well and the citizens were so weary of it all that they were ready to grab onto anything that came along offering a change. There were plenty of side issues too, but I think the prime mover was the desire to stop the bleeding.

When the Dumycrats got control of Congress in 2007, they were quick to embrace the lessons of the previous Congress in that deficit spending didn't seem to have limits, so why not go for it. When the hyper-inflated housing financial debacle went south and the economy tanked, the folks were ready for a new course. They chose a pied piper.

None of this really explains why the people chose to stick with the lying, know-nothing, amateur communist, but what the hell--in for a penny, in for a pound.

308Win · « **Reply #14 on:** November 24, 2012, 04:56:06 AM »

ironglow,Well stated and my feelings to the 10th,thanks for the post.

ironglow · « **Reply #15 on:** November 24, 2012, 04:57:14 AM »

Magooch inquires;
" I'm still not quite sure what really happened. Did the Dumycrats finally figure out the perfect way to rig elections, or did over half the poopulation get caught with their heads in a dark smelly place. Just exactly what is it that the Obamunist supporters think is going to happen now? Is is really all about revenge--getting even with those who have made something of their lives and aren't beholding to the government for their next handout?"
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Magooch;
It has to be obvious, even to the most dead-brained individuals, that there was a "whole lot of rigging going on"! Just look at these results from the recent election:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/odd-romney-got-zero-votes-in-59-precincts-in-philly-9-in-ohio/

I checked the rough population of the voters in Philly districts...and the numbers involved in those 59 districts equal the same equivalent of several counties in Texas, Arizona, Oregon or nearly any other state. If we were to take several counties or as in the case of city districts...(pick the most conservative)...and tell me there were NO, NONE, NADA..ZILCH votes for Obama in those counties or precincts..mere credibility would have to say "BULL-SHOT"!

...And yes, we have to get used to more who attend "dumb-down" public schools..to keep their heads in that dark place..

I can cite from local witnesses, just how the voter fraud takes place...but I'll hold for now..

finisher · « **Reply #16 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:13:53 PM »

What is happening to those in America (or their descendants) that have thrived upon the rape and murder of the past (proves instruction by a bigoted instructor)is merely a retribution and an act of grace in itself. Don't quite follow your meaning here.
Your wording seems to indicate you are not necessarily"one of us", but perhapsforeign bornn.. and so, do not shoulder this "blame" you are so eager to place.. If so, that's fine..we are a nation of immigrants...but why bother coming here if we are such a bad people? As I've said before, my ancestors come from all corners of the planet. Some of them were hear on this continent charting the stars when yours still thought the Earth was flat. And like your precious great image of "apple pie America" going down in flames, so did the Aztecs and the Mayans as eventually do all great "civilizations"(if that's what you want to call them). On the other side of the family lines My lineage spans from the Persians and Macedonians who were engineering cities and mastering advanced mathmatics when yours didn't even have a written language. And in the same manner that they fell so shall the "Great Apple Pie"

And now here I am, white skin, dark hair, multilingual, speaking and writing English (not in the Queen's perfection) but with no accent and better than many who have on first sight called me "beanner", "brownie", "wetback" and so many others. And even when I wore the uniform of this "Great Nation".

My spirit was here before you foriegn invaders and it will still be here when you're "Apple Pie Empire" is long gone
Your time is over and this fate will fall upon the sons of America "seven fold" (just had to throw that biblical thing in there

).(Just as if you knew the subject) Am I supposed to be ashamed to be a "son of America"? Of what entity are you a "son of"? What nation has such a sterling past that it can hold another to ridicule? Even if it is one of the Indian nations..remember, nobody, no nation is perfect
Of Course not. The indians deserved what they got because they were too busy fighting among themselves to see what was going to be done to them by the "foreign invaders" of that day. But like it or not, this nation got where it is... yes; through great strife and struggle; and in it's own mind manifest destiny; but it allso got here through the systematic genocide and destruction of entire cultures.
Exactly where abouts do you think you wore out your welcome? Was it with the small pox? Nah, Oh what about the extermination of the bison so that the cattle ranchers could make a profit. Naw, we cannot have a plentiful and regenerative supply of food for everyone that is FREE no less. Of course not. Wheres the profit in that?

No IG, It's been a good run for the "new world" but there are financial entities in this world whose power and influence far circumvent any ones illusions of "the Great Nation". It's all about the "ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR" or the Yen, or Mark; or what ever it will become when the dollar loses it's trading status. It has been for a long time.

I feel that you put to much faith in those( politicians ) who don't know or care that you even exist.

Accountability is at hand, but who sees it this way depends entirely upon the perspective from which it is perceived. Accountability from who and by whom? Please answer this question...

Please answer.. Accountability from who and by whom?

**************************
Accountibility? Who? Unfortunately, the ones wearing the suits, who sit in their towers, and finance the wars and PR campaigns that get the rest of us ignorant shmucks to believe in the war...the ones who should be accountable will never be brought to justice. There is no "justice" in their eyes, only profit margins.
Perhaps those who who say "oh the slaughter of entire cultures was a necessary evil that had to be done because manifest destiny means that its all right in gods eyes, and these people weren't Christians any way, so that makes genocide even more excusable; and after all, it was a long time ago and I didn't have anything to do with it so I don't owe them a thing".

That is more or less the attitude that I perceive when the issue surfaces.

No great white "God" is going to come down and fix everything. For all I know it was "the god's that taught man how to enslave themselves with the art of finance to begin with.

As far as overall accountability goes, and to whom we will all be accountable...take your pick; Jesus, Allah, Yahwe, Buddah, Ying and Yang, or maybe to some really well dressed European banker. Hell I don't know. I really don't care.What ever happens, I shall do the best to adapt and move when necessary.

No, I'm not a foreigner to this continent. Far from it. But I know what it is like to have everything that I worked for taken from me. And it could happen again. But I'm not gonna cry about it because none of it was ever real to begin with because it has all been founded upon a crime and a LIE.

But like I said before, it was a fun ILLUSION while it lasted. And no, I'm not giving up...it's just that the "capital" was over run wayyy back, a long time ago (I'd say right around the time of the civil war and with the dawn of the industrial revolution). And I truly no longer know exactly who is on my side.

And I really just revel in the irony of the complaints of those who cry about "illegal foreign invaders" and all their other political woes. The irony that they all are going to soon have quite a lot more in common with the indigenous people of this continent. Funny thing is that they're only afraid of the brown ones from down south (truly the least of their worries...so narrow and short sighted).

Don't know when the last time you were in the San Gabriel Valley of LA County but the Chinese are ALREADY here by the millions.

Accountability... who... and from who? Somewhere on that nice little piece of land that you have (and for which you should be gracious instead of constantly complaining and spreading your poisonous rhetoric about the lefties and the Obummers and the homos and the....LORD! Who cares!) ...somewhere, there should be some rope. We all provide our own Judas ropes. And we all deserve them.

It's all happened before, IG. It will all happen again. And I don't think that we are meant to change it. But if were lucky and learned something this time around, maybe we won't have to come back again. You'll go on to other shores, and I'll (most likely) go on to ...hotter $:-\$ shores. Sure hope it was worth it.

Peace to you.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #17 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:38:15 PM »

Quote

Accountability... who... and from who? Somewhere on that nice little piece of land that you have (and for which you should be gracious instead of constantly complaining and spreading your poisonous rhetoric about the lefties and the Obummers and the homos and the....LORD! Who cares!) ...somewhere, there should be some rope. We all provide our own Judas ropes. And we all deserve them.

That's about the nastiest suggestion I think I've seen allowed on GBO.

dwalk · « **Reply #18 on:** November 24, 2012, 01:53:53 PM »

as we decend into the abyss of chaos, we need to look back and see that obama did not begin the decent, he's just facilatating it.
jimmie carter, for the biggest part, opened the gates to allow the "Hoards of barbarians"(a-la the roman empire) to invade us...an "Illegal immigrant" invasion, as it turns out to have been...why did hadrian build his wall? and the chinese build the great walls of china? any one know? and understand?
some poo-poo the events of the last century as being "So what? that will NEVER happen here...we're the United States"...well..just look at what happened in munich in 1932...the germans ELECTED adolph hitler...they were in the midst of a HUGE economical meltdown...just like...you know where...don't you? the rest is HISTORY.
before you lefties whine about me comparing obama to hitler...i'm not comparing the two of them...i'm comparing events.
history ALWAYS repeats itself...especially to those who choose to ignore it. as an example: hitler ignored what happened to napoleon in Russia and made the EXACT, SAME MISTAKES!
sorry if this offends some...to them i say read your history.

magooch · « **Reply #19 on:** November 25, 2012, 04:01:35 AM »

So what you're saying is that Bamster just hasn't shown his fascist face--yet.

ironglow · « **Reply #20 on:** November 26, 2012, 12:59:26 AM »

From Finisher;
"As I've said before, my ancestors come from all corners of the planet. Some of them were hear on this continent charting the stars when yours still thought the Earth was flat. How do you come to know what my ethnic heritage is?
And like your precious great image of "apple pie America" going down in flames, so did the Aztecs and the Mayans as eventually do all great "civilizations"(if that's what you want to call them). Surely the "apple pie America" would be preferable to.... The "drug war", $16 trillion nationl debt, drive-by murders, AIDS, illegitimate births gone wild, riots at lingerie stores, millions spent on mind-destroying drugs, half the population on the dole, STDs running rampant through teenagers, cities in the US where the killings on one weekend overshadows the battlefield, etc, etc.
On the other side of the family lines My lineage spans from the Persians and Macedonians who were engineering cities and mastering advanced mathmatics when yours didn't even have a written language. And in the same manner that they fell so shall the "Great Apple Pie" Oh yes; please share..who were my progenitors? What were they doing whan yours were engineering great things? Do I detect a bit of a "superiority complex" here?
*****************************************************************
Since by your above posts you indicate that we should bear some kind of guilt concerning what our ancestors may or may not have done, Let us consider your boasted heritage...
''''''''''''''''''''''''
the Persians.. The people who took other nations into captivity and slavery..Assurbanipal; a homosexual dictator who had a nasty habit of skinning his royal captives alive.. In more recent history, it is the Persians (Iranians) who shamelessly held an entire foreign embassy staff captive for well over a year, and is a leading state in their sponsorship of terrorism...
Are you ready to take the blame for these and many other atrocities?
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Then there are the Macedonians... Alexander perhaps being their most stellar figure. When at a young age, Alex decided to "conquer the world", he did it in the most brutal manner. At times he collected the heads of his enemies in piles ..just to gloat over them. Some historians consider him to be "gay". He had to be brutal..that was about the only way of subduing those in his path. He and his troops were likely much more cold-blooded than those who faced the native tribes in America, during the expansionist period.

Are you ready to accept the Macedonian war crimes as your own...
Or would you rather be like most adults, and admit that those before us sometimes did criminal things, concluding that there is nothing we can do about the far past, but we can do something about the future and how we live our lives?
We cannot repay for past crimes, nor should we.. those were committed by a different people at a different time!

Many of us have illustrious people in our heritage...but guess what! Those people of the past do not pass their glory to us..we each have to earn our own.

I do find it interesting however, that you chide me for considering the America of 50 years ago as better than today, ...and then you attempt to draw some honor to yourself from ancient Macedonians and Persians, whose heyday was some 2,500 and 3,500 years ago.

dwalk · « **Reply #21 on:** November 26, 2012, 05:47:13 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on November 26, 2012, 12:59:26 AM

From Finisher;
"As I've said before, my ancestors come from all corners of the planet. Some of them were hear on this continent charting the stars when yours still thought the Earth was flat. How do you come to know what my ethnic heritage is?
And like your precious great image of "apple pie America" going down in flames, so did the Aztecs and the Mayans as eventually do all great "civilizations"(if that's what you want to call them). Surely the "apple pie America" would be preferable to.... The "drug war", $16 trillion nationl debt, drive-by murders, AIDS, illegitimate births gone wild, riots at lingerie stores, millions spent on mind-destroying drugs, half the population on the dole, STDs running rampant through teenagers, cities in the US where the killings on one weekend overshadows the battlefield, etc, etc.
On the other side of the family lines My lineage spans from the Persians and Macedonians who were engineering cities and mastering advanced mathmatics when yours didn't even have a written language. And in the same manner that they fell so shall the "Great Apple Pie" Oh yes; please share..who were my progenitors? What were they doing whan yours were engineering great things? Do I detect a bit of a "superiority complex" here?
*****************************************************************
Since by your above posts you indicate that we should bear some kind of guilt concerning what our ancestors may or may not have done, Let us consider your boasted heritage...
''''''''''''''''''''''''
the Persians.. The people who took other nations into captivity and slavery..Assurbanipal; a homosexual dictator who had a nasty habit of skinning his royal captives alive.. In more recent history, it is the Persians (Iranians) who shamelessly held an entire foreign embassy staff captive for well over a year, and is a leading state in their sponsorship of terrorism...
Are you ready to take the blame for these and many other atrocities?
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Then there are the Macedonians... Alexander perhaps being their most stellar figure. When at a young age, Alex decided to "conquer the world", he did it in the most brutal manner. At times he collected the heads of his enemies in piles ..just to gloat over them. Some historians consider him to be "gay". He had to be brutal..that was about the only way of subduing those in his path. He and his troops were likely much more cold-blooded than those who faced the native tribes in America, during the expansionist period.

Are you ready to accept the Macedonian war crimes as your own...
Or would you rather be like most adults, and admit that those before us sometimes did criminal things, concluding that there is nothing we can do about the far past, but we can do something about the future and how we live our lives?
We cannot repay for past crimes, nor should we.. those were committed by a different people at a different time!

Many of us have illustrious people in our heritage...but guess what! Those people of the past do not pass their glory to us..we each have to earn our own.

I do find it interesting however, that you chide me for considering the America of 50 years ago as better than today, ...and then you attempt to draw some honor to yourself from ancient Macedonians and Persians, whose heyday was some 2,500 and 3,500 years ago.

the bold, underlined, italics are mine for emphasis

how many times, in OUR lifetime, have we heard the issue of slavery be thrown in our faces...slavery was ended in the United States in 1863...yet there are those who are demanding repatriation for what occurred 149 years and longer ago.

again...HISTORY is our teacher...ignore it...pay the consequences...

ironglow · « **Reply #22 on:** November 26, 2012, 01:46:13 PM »

I surely don't blame Finisher for the atrocities committed by the ancient Macedonians or the Persians... even the crimes committed almost daily now by the Persians (Iranians)..so long as he is not personally involved..
...It's not his fault, what they are doing...

twoshooter · « **Reply #23 on:** November 26, 2012, 02:48:31 PM »

There is truly no shortage of ignorance, nor of error. Two quotes apply here. The first, and one of my all time favorites is from "K" in Men in Black...." Fifteen hundred years ago everyone KNEW that the earth was the center of the Universe, five hundred years ago everyone KNEW the earth was flat, fifteen minutes ago YOU KNEW that humans were alone on earth. Just IMAGINE what we will KNOW tomorrow! "
The second I do not recall the author, but it is "it is not what I don't know that is the problem, it is what I know-- that is not true....".

What WE (and I include myself because I share many but not all of the sentiments here) are in fact facing given the technological advances and demographic shifts, is the same situation as the character Michael Douglas portrays in "Falling Down" when he asks Robert Duvall "when did I become the bad guy???" We are about to become like the last steam engines after the development of diesel locomotives . Or the Indians when they thought the "Ghost Dancers" were going to be the answer to their prayers. Or I would predict, like the blacks will be when they realize that they are no longer the poster child for discrimination and the hispanics are THE minority. I will bet that the hispanics will achieve majority status by mid century, and they will NOT display the same tolerance and introspection that the "old white guys" did toward "others".

It is however irrelevant, at least to me. Multiple actuarial tables together with extensive family history and statistical extrapolation tells me that the odds of me seeing any year past 2032 are extremely slim. I am hoping for 15 at least reasonably useful and active years. I intend to enjoy what I can of them, not wallowing in sack cloth and ashes over what is no more. I can't go back to Mayberry, but I can still go fishing.

ironglow · « **Reply #24 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:15:38 PM »

Quote from: twoshooter on November 26, 2012, 02:48:31 PM

There is truly no shortage of ignorance, nor of error. Two quotes apply here. The first, and one of my all time favorites is from "K" in Men in Black...." Fifteen hundred years ago everyone KNEW that the earth was the center of the Universe, five hundred years ago everyone KNEW the earth was flat, fifteen minutes ago YOU KNEW that humans were alone on earth. Just IMAGINE what we will KNOW tomorrow! "
The second I do not recall the author, but it is "it is not what I don't know that is the problem, it is what I know-- that is not true....".

What WE (and I include myself because I share many but not all of the sentiments here) are in fact facing given the technological advances and demographic shifts, is the same situation as the character Michael Douglas portrays in "Falling Down" when he asks Robert Duvall "when did I become the bad guy???" We are about to become like the last steam engines after the development of diesel locomotives . Or the Indians when they thought the "Ghost Dancers" were going to be the answer to their prayers. Or I would predict, like the blacks will be when they realize that they are no longer the poster child for discrimination and the hispanics are THE minority. I will bet that the hispanics will achieve majority status by mid century, and they will NOT display the same tolerance and introspection that the "old white guys" did toward "others".

It is however irrelevant, at least to me. Multiple actuarial tables together with extensive family history and statistical extrapolation tells me that the odds of me seeing any year past 2032 are extremely slim. I am hoping for 15 at least reasonably useful and active years. I intend to enjoy what I can of them, not wallowing in sack cloth and ashes over what is no more. I can't go back to Mayberry, but I can still go fishing.

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Umm.. Who are you talking to..and what are you talking about? Perhaps you can take it back and correlate it with the original post..and see what we get..

twoshooter · « **Reply #25 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:57:11 PM »

You apologized for being "wrong". No apology necessary. You were wrong. You think that a substantial percentage of the population share values, principles, and desires with you and your compatriots here, in fact, whether whistling past the cemetery or not, you think that a majority of the population do. You are wrong. You think that the reason for the outcome of the election is that your principles and values were not expressed clearly enough, or forcefully enough, or emotionally enough, or logically enough......you are wrong. You are just like a PETA member at the national BBQ cookoff believing that deep in their hearts those chef's truly believe that eating an animal is just WRONG. I believe that you can grasp that idea, that you (meaning your general entire philosophical cohort) think that the other skunk at the picnic smells wonderful, but all the picnic goers have an alternate opinion. Romney said the "47%", he was in fact radically underestimating the number. My estimation is that the number is probably closer to 67%, with the great majority of that number that really do not care period about some ideology, except what they are thinking at the moment.
There are a lot of people here that think that the results of this will be some kind of catastrophe. It may be...... for you, and even for me. It will however be just fine with the majority. My nightmare is someone else's dream.
You are looking for either confirmation or debate. So, here's debating the issues.

mrcooper · « **Reply #26 on:** November 27, 2012, 12:32:48 AM »

ironglow, I agree with you 101% I am sorry to see this once god fearing, strong nation go down

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #27 on:** November 27, 2012, 02:48:54 AM »

Quote

Or would you rather be like most adults, and admit that those before us sometimes did criminal things, concluding that there is nothing we can do about the far past, but we can do something about the future and how we live our lives?

Try telling THAT one to the Muzzies.

ironglow · « **Reply #28 on:** November 27, 2012, 05:40:39 AM »

Quote from: twoshooter on November 26, 2012, 03:57:11 PM

You apologized for being "wrong". No apology necessary. You were wrong. You think that a substantial percentage of the population share values, principles, and desires with you and your compatriots here, in fact, whether whistling past the cemetery or not, you think that a majority of the population do. You are wrong. You think that the reason for the outcome of the election is that your principles and values were not expressed clearly enough, or forcefully enough, or emotionally enough, or logically enough......you are wrong. You are just like a PETA member at the national BBQ cookoff believing that deep in their hearts those chef's truly believe that eating an animal is just WRONG. I believe that you can grasp that idea, that you (meaning your general entire philosophical cohort) think that the other skunk at the picnic smells wonderful, but all the picnic goers have an alternate opinion. Romney said the "47%", he was in fact radically underestimating the number. My estimation is that the number is probably closer to 67%, with the great majority of that number that really do not care period about some ideology, except what they are thinking at the moment.
There are a lot of people here that think that the results of this will be some kind of catastrophe. It may be...... for you, and even for me. It will however be just fine with the majority. My nightmare is someone else's dream.
You are looking for either confirmation or debate. So, here's debating the issues.

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You are probably correct..that 67% who think no farther than their nose, nor deeper than a coat of paint..will be the ruin of this nation.

ironglow · « **Reply #29 on:** November 27, 2012, 05:47:04 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on November 27, 2012, 02:48:54 AM

Quote
Or would you rather be like most adults, and admit that those before us sometimes did criminal things, concluding that there is nothing we can do about the far past, but we can do something about the future and how we live our lives?

Try telling THAT one to the Muzzies.

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Yeah..you can always tell a muzzie...but not much!