Hostess union workers think they'll be rehired.

[powderman]

 Hostess Union Workers Think They'll Be Rehired... 11/20/12
Hostess Union workers think that they can force Hostess into bankruptcy and then be re-hired by the new owners? But if their terms and conditions are what caused Hostess to go bankrupt in the first place, why would anybody hire them back?
Jim Hoft calls it a "laugh alert".
Biz Journals:
 

Former employees of Hostess Brands Inc. are now hoping that a buyer will save pieces of the liquidating company and put them back to work.
Hostess set a 5 p.m. Nov. 15 deadline for workers involved in a union-organized strike to return to work. The company warned that if the ongoing labor strike continued it would force the company into liquidation, and it wasn’t bluffing — having announced plans to liquidate and lay off 18,000 employees.
But now those that are out of work, including nearly 200 in Jacksonville, are hoping that someone will buy the popular Hostess products and reproduce them, the Wall Street Journal reports.
 
Frank Hurt, president of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers union, told the WSJ he was comforted by the rush of consumers to purchase Twinkies and other products for fear the popular brands will go away.
“People are going crazy because they think they’re not going to be able to get any Twinkies or Ho Hos or Wonder Bread,” he told the WSJ. “They’ll be produced somewhere, some time and by our members.”

Read more at http://www.reagancoalition.com/articles/2012/20121120003-hostess-rehired.html#hZYlwZcpJR6rYwja.99

[kennyd]

Since the Denver bakery was not on strike, I sure hope those guys can get jobs.  I actually sledom bought twinkies because of the cost versus value.  The delivery guys I see don't seem to be high income types.


The one missing piece of the news is how much they made to start with; was it $10, 20, or more?  That is part of how sympathetic I feel toward anyone.  I know I would have to have a bunch of training to run whatever bakeries have in them nowadays, and am glad I don't have to fight traffic in a van all day.


While we dislike unions for a lot they do, we also benefit from 8 hour days, weekends, and job safety.  We do not like the ceilings based on seniority.  But we also think poorly of the companies (non union) that tend to get rid of older workers before retirement comes.
A problem I have with any organization is the power grabs that go on.  Teamsters are long assiciated with mobs.  What does tobacco workers have to do with baking? 


The same can be said for the Federal Department of Recreation---otherwise known as alcohol, tobacco, firearms.

[BUGEYE]

Yep, That's what I said would happen....New business organization hires back the select employees with out the union.  That's how you bust unions, impoverish workers, and owners collect more dividends. Its called Feudalism. The process was pioneered by Grey Hound Bus many years back...So, let's see if they follow thru with the process or divert to Mexican bakeries. Also, very possible top union brass were payed off_ _either directly or thru stock options.
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..TM7

not to worry, hostess will soon be nationalized by hussein and  they'll all get their jobs back at $4 or $5 an hour and they'll be so grateful that they would vote democrat if there was ever another election.

[Sourdough]

My Dad worked for a company that unionized.  Dad was one of the first that lost his job.  A higher tenured union member got it, and Dad had to go working off the board.  The owner had a plant in South America where they made the same products for export to other South American countries.  The owner came back from overseas and fired everyone, except a few that had refused to join the union, and had been fired once the union took over.  The owner closed the plant and rehired those few as security guards.  Two years later the owner hired all new employees, and put the plant back in operation.  The owner refused to rehire any of the previous employees that had been a part of the union.  Any senyority or retirement benifits these previous employees had went right out the window.  Dad regreated joining the union, he had really not wanted to but felt forced by other employees to do so.
 
A few weeks after the plant reopened seems some union members went to pay the owner a visit.  The union members were shot and killed while they were roughing up the owner and his wife.  Any employee that mentions a union around that plant is reported and instantly fired.  One of my brothers grandsons works there now.  He told me that during his introduction meeting he was told that if he ever talked of unions he would be fired.  If he heard of some one talking unionizing report it.  The owners own plants in the US, Argentina, and Mexico.  They can afford to shut down any palnt for an extended period if needed.
 
As you can tell I'm anti union. 

[Defoe]

You do know what the owners did in your above story is completely and utterly criminally illegal.

A privately owned business can be shut down anytime for as little reason as, "the owner got tired of getting up early to go to work".

[Cuts Crooked]

Sorry TM, but a business owner has every right to close a business. And every right to reopen one. If the union did not a valid contract in place that covered the time period involved.....ergo they were striking for more pay, and a new contract was not signed prior to the closure, they are SOL.... As in what Hostess has just done. Perfectly legal!

[Conan The Librarian]

I don't think it's true that a unionized business can close at any time for any reason. I recall that there are federal laws that regulate this. For example, Hostess made the decision to close, and then a federal judge overseeing the bankruptcy ordered them back to negotiations.
 
Hostess-specific
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/19/3925167/hostess-ceo-says-acquisition-by.html
 
 
 
Here's a creepy example related to Boeing and NLRB:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/garyshapiro/2011/04/27/federal-government-attacks-on-boeing-fuel-our-national-economic-suicide/
 
 

[SHOOTALL]

You do know what the owners did in your above story is completely and utterly criminally illegal.

A privately owned business can be shut down anytime for as little reason as, "the owner got tired of getting up early to go to work".

yea right ask Boeing about that. better yet check current labor laws .

[Conan The Librarian]

GM too, for that matter.

[Defoe]

Just like the coming SCOTUS, the NLRB is stacked with liberal pro-union obama people who, like the justice department, flexes their muscles with threats of lawsuits that will bankrupt companys who don't knuckle under.  can you say communism.

as for a company shutting down, they sure can.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/hostess-brands-says-it-will-liquidate/

a judge poked his nose in and told them to continue negoations, but all hostess has to do is stick with their former offer, and nobody can force them to pay more than that.
they are reorganizing under chapter 11 and if they re-open, people will have accept their offer if they want a job.
the unions have been emboldened by their big-daddy in the whitehouse, but in these bad economic times they are shooting themselves in the foot.

[SHOOTALL]

of course they can shut down as long as if the reason is unions they do not mention it , don't say they will shut down , instill fear in workers at time of hire etc. There is a law in effect now that limiots the time a company is allowed to lobby aginst unions comming in to vote the union in.
do it sure but not in a bold way .

[Defoe]

I don't understand why a person would vote to get a union.
let's say a person is making $20 per hour, has 2 weeks vacation, and subzidized insurance....
in comes the union and suddenly the hourly wage drops to "zero", the vacation is out the window and the insurance goes to full price.
you have to negotiate for everything and "if" you're lucky you'll get back the things you had, only now you are paying dues to thugs who do your talking for you, and might just bring down the company when your contract is up.

[SHOOTALL]

In will relate what I know , here in Va. the plumbers/pipefitters union make good money but many work at 80% wage so the companies that use union labor can compete with non union. They vacation , health insurance etc. is part of their benifits . They do pay  union dues. What they would like to see is all plumbers be union so there would be no non union competition. They always note the higher wage but not the 80% . When I was working non union I made about what the union made less retirement and my vacation did not come out of my wage. So in some cases the union offers advantage to the worker but only if all shops are union. Here we have a right to work law so its hard for them to take over a shop. One shop works both and davis bacon jobs get union while competive labor jobs get non union .

[Defoe]

  Most people in unions like being in unions.

when I missed a dues payment, a leg breaker type showed up on the job site and said pay up or I'll yank you off the job.
I have a rapport with my supervisor and the CEO and wish I could ditch the union. I don't like threats and I don't attend the union meetings.

[SHOOTALL]

So people like to pay to work ? Or are they paying for protection ?

[DDZ]

Maybe If the union would have agreed to let Hostess load twinkies and bread on the same trucks they might still have a job. The idea of that was the thinking it would create more union jobs. So much for that. They now will reap what they have sown.

[Cuts Crooked]

 

Well that may be true or not true, depends; but you and Cuts missed entirely what I was talking about. An employer can not order employees, under termination,  threat of termination, or other duress, their right or inclination to organize, which is what I stated in my post and you missed.. That's illegal. The right to organize labor is the hallmark quality that distinquishes employment from slavery_ _be it bonded slavery or chattel slavery, or wage slavery.

Certainly not! But the company can refuse to deal the organization.....totally within it's rights. That's LEGAL!

Get it? They can organize all they want too but the company cannot be forced to deal with them as an organization.

[scootrd]

  Most people in unions like being in unions.

when I missed a dues payment, a leg breaker type showed up on the job site and said pay up or I'll yank you off the job.
I have a rapport with my supervisor and the CEO and wish I could ditch the union. I don't like threats and I don't attend the union meetings.

What union are you with?

IBEW local 45 for example - states you are not eligible for union work if you are past 3 months -

DROPPED MEMBERSHIP
If your membership is dropped for non-payment of required union dues, you will have to re-join Local Union 45 (re-pay the initiation and administrative service fees) and you will not be eligible for work within Local 45's jurisdiction until you are again a member in good standing. Be advised that your membership will be dropped automatically if your account become 6 or more months in arrears.

It's the workers choice , if you want union Job , you pay union dues. Otherwise they have every right to remove you from the  job site and replace you with a union worker in good standing to work their union contract.

Conversely  - you have every right to disengage from a union and seek independent employment outside of secured bid union contracts .

[dukkillr]

We have a couple of Hostess plants (bakeries?) here in KC.  The KC Star ran this editorial yesterday.  I've highlighted my favorite parts.
 

Perhaps the most intriguing question regarding the demise of the venerable Twinkie is how it, along with the menu of other products made by Hostess, lasted as long as it did. Twinkies and Hostess Cupcakes may be the stuff of legend, but they seemed anachronistic in a market that put greater stress on healthier foods.
 
The company’s attempts to introduce new products in tune with the times largely failed. Hostess finally collapsed, brought down by the accumulated weight of problems unresolved.   
 
Hostess traces its origins to a baking company founded in 1927, which over the years bought up competitors — and in the process acquired three dozen plants and more than 370 labor contracts.   Many of those agreements imposed byzantine work rules. Wonder Bread and Twinkies couldn’t be transported on the same truck. Drivers couldn’t help load vehicles. In some cases, shifting inventory from one place to another required a separate worker who had to arrive in a separate vehicle.   
 
It wasn’t the Teamsters that struck and tipped the company into liquidation, however; that union agreed to give-backs. It was the bakers, organized as the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, who walked out. An attempt at mediation failed, and last week a bankruptcy judge allowed liquidation to proceed. The company said about 15,000 of 18,500 workers would be laid off.   The bakers’ walkout may have been the proximate cause of Hostess’ demise, but labor troubles were only one item on a larger menu of problems, including aging bakeries, massive debt and CEO turnover — a half-dozen in the last 10 years. Hostess spent eight of the last 11 years in bankruptcy.   
 
AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka called it a story of “Bain-style Wall Street vultures” enriching themselves “by making America poor.”   Yes, Hostess boosted management compensation while trying to push through wage and benefit cuts. But the private-equity fund controlling the company was founded by a major Democratic Party donor, Timothy C. Collins, who wanted to save struggling companies with unionized workforces.   His fund — Ripplewood Holdings — invested $130 million in Hostess. Most of that may be lost. Many of the company’s brands may be bought by other companies. Some of its bakeries — including those in Lenexa, Booneville, Mo., and Emporia, Kan. — may well fire up again.
 
But the bottom line is that in a world of tofu and 10-grain bread, Hostess was unable to change, and a dynamic economy imposed the sad, all-too-familiar penalty.
 

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/25/3932173/the-stars-editorial-the-long-goodbye.html

[Conan The Librarian]

That post makes me feel better about all of the companies that have managed to purge the unions from their business. Or I should say, not so much the unions, but the ones that abuse the business. Which is what these guys clearly did to Hostess.
 
Here in the Minneapolis / St. Paul area there are union rules where people working an electrical project in Minneapolis can't go to to a related job site to do their part of the work in St Paul. It requires a different set of laborers.
 
About IBEW 45, that may be true. But there are other unions where your house and car get vandalized and you may be threatened if you try to work in the market outside of the union. It's that whole scab mentality. My brother in law had his tires slashed because he didn't want to work through a union anymore. A friend had is house damaged on a few occasions.
 
It's interesting to see how this effects employers. I know some teachers whose seniority means a lot in their district, but means nothing outside that district. For example, if they have 20 years of seniority in district A then try to get a job in district B, they have to take an entry level position with entry level pay. This is probably why so many teachers want administrative jobs: mobility and an increasing wage throughout their careers.
 
I've often heard from ambitious and energetic young guys who got union jobs that they quickly were advised to "slow down".

[scootrd]

But the bottom line is that in a world of tofu and 10-grain bread, Hostess was unable to change, and a dynamic economy imposed the sad, all-too-familiar penalty.

I know in this modern health conscience society  we should shy away  - But I must admit , I am going to miss occasional indulgence of Drakes Coffee Cake, Ring Dings and devil dogs.  Especially the coffee cake!!!!!!

[Conan The Librarian]

See if you like anything from Little Debbies. They sell boxes of individually wrapped treats similar to twinkies. The Swiss cake rolls are really tasty. So are the cream filled oatmeal cookies. I see plenty of twinkie lookalikes around here from other bakeries, so I don't think it's the end of the world if we want to buy just one at a time at a convenience store or truck stop.
 
I don't fully agree with the health concious argument. There are lots of businesses that operate in niches that are not health concious. For example, barbecue restaurants, hot dog and cold cut companies, ice cream companies, any snack foods like potato chips and fritos. It's a long list.

[BUGEYE]

Maybe If the union would have agreed to let Hostess load twinkies and bread on the same trucks they might still have a job. The idea of that was the thinking it would create more union jobs. So much for that. They now will reap what they have sown.

I had to watch a lot of friends lose their jobs at eastern airlines, mainly because of unions.
if a flight arrived when it was breaktime for that rampcrew, a supervisor would park it so passengers could deplane, but their bags would have to wait until the ramp crew finished their break and dragged themselves back to the gate, and if the tug-drivers happened to go on break, the customers had a looooooong wait for their bags.
your example of bread and cakes on the same truck is perfect to showcase the union mentallity.
At my beloved Delta airlines, that didn't happen. ramp crews took their break "AFTER" they worked the flight.
when Delta fell on hards times, EVERY employee volunteered to take a cut in pay, and instead of laying off pilots during the flight cutback, they had the choice to work the ramp, or freight, or ticket counter etc. and kept their paychecks.
unions had their place in the past, but their time is up and they should go, otherwise we'll end up sending even more companies offshore.

[Old Fart]

I'm not gonna argue for or against unions as that's a losing battle either way.

But I have thought about something that may well be the end to them. As several of you have mentioned union workers generally (not always) do one job and one job only. I remember when I was considrably younger I work high rise and commercial construction. On several jobs I worked I got sideways with the union boss because I wouldn't wait on my laborer to go pick something up for me. It almost cost me my job a few times. But I was raised in a basically non union state where you were taught to give a honest days work. Which around my house meant get it done and don't waste time talking about who needed to do what or get what. If you needed something you went and got it.

Most of the jobs I've had since then were in industry. I always had several jobs (multi-task I believe is the buzz word) that I worked concurrently. Whichever job had the most heat on it got the most attention, but all were worked on regularly. In todays work world more and more jobs are requiring you to handle multiple task and work with diverse groups of people. The old days of having a elevator man are long gone. If the unions don't learn to bend a little bit a lot more they are gonna see the same thing as these twinkie guys. In my opinion anyway....

[SHOOTALL]

Unions introduce a third partner into a business venture one that in no way contributes to the business being profitable . How is that good for business ?

[SHOOTALL]

Does a man have to hitch to a poorly run company ? If anything the owners and union both live off the workers but only the company pays them.

[Cuts Crooked]

The best companies I ever worked for,  in my younger days were non union shops, they had the best pay, best insurance package, best retirement pans.

Come to think of it, the union shops in the area are gone now.

[scootrd]

There is a big difference between Venture capitalism and Vulture capitalism.
One creates and all benefit.
One destroys and only a significant few benefit.


When the ship goes down save the Ding Dongs...Typical
I wonder where the monies for bonuses will come from ? raiding the employee Pensions I have no doubt.

[Gun Runner]

I had a run in with the union and dint even belong to one. A ship I was on was in the yards for some work. The space I worked in needed some equiptment moved and new holes drilled for mounting. The yard workers were sitting around the shop drinking coffee, and when it came time to go to work they just sat around. Finally I asked when they were gonna start. The guy in charge said they coundent do nothing yet as his guys were just installers. My next comment was, you mean your not smart enough to turn the wrench the other direction. They just looked at me. Finally ran them out of the shop (it was my coffee they were drinking), got 2 of my guys and we unbolted the equiptment moved it, drilled new holes and installed it. Next thing I know Iam trying to explain to the Captain why I did this when it was the shipyards job to do. Explained to the Captain it was my coffee they were drinking and taking up space in my shop, and my guys knew how to turn the wrenchs in the oppisite(sp) direction. Was told I had violated a bunch of union rules, explained I dint give a shi-t about there rules just wanted the job done. That was the only work in my shop the yard had to do. Guess I must have Peed in somebods Corn flakes that morning. But never heard another word about what I did. 

Gun Runner

[SHOOTALL]

Does a man have to hitch to a poorly run company ? If anything the owners and union both live off the workers but only the company pays them.

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 Yeah well,,,you see the functionality of a vehicle is dependent on the intergrated running of the sum of all parts...remove or break the engine and you don't go too far. The company vehicle has a whole moves forward each supporting the other components of the 'vehicle'...at least in healthy companies..
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 Now here's what management organization gets you (from washington post):

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Hostess, maker of Twinkies, seeks permission to pay manager bonuses               
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   By  Dawn McCarty, David McLaughlin and Phil Milford,
Nov 19, 2012 06:01 PM ESTBloomberg Nov. 19 (Bloomberg)
-- Hostess Brands Inc., the bankrupt baker of Twinkies and Wonder bread, is seeking permission to pay bonuses to key managers while closing operations that will leave most of its 18,500 workers unemployed as it begins a liquidation that may attract bids from private-equity firms and rivals.
U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain is to consider Hostess’s request to close its distribution centers and 36 bakeries at a hearing today in White Plains, New York. Hostess said Nov. 16 that it would shut down, claiming that a weeklong strike by its bakers’ union forced liquidation. The union blamed management’s concession demands, while some employees blamed both sides..
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SOOOOOoooo,,,I GUESS THE WORKERS CAN JUST GO AND EAT CAKE....!~!..
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..TM7

yawn    I find the best power plants are the NON RESTRICTED ONES