Online Gun Sales Business

[Dinny]

Hey guys,
  I want to start an online gun sales business. My wife is always telling me that she wants to find an "at-home" job that she can do anywhere the Army moves us and I would like to make some extra money and save a little by buying my guns at wholesale prices. The few things that make my situation unique is that I will be on active-duty for at least 9 more years and could move 3-4 more times or deployed for up to 12 months. Also, I really don't want to keep any stock in my house nor do I want to have a store front. I may change my mind later about the store but that will come after I retire from the Army. My ultimate goal is to sell guns that ship directly from the distributor's warehouse to the accepting FFL, leaving my wife and I to all the admin legwork in between.
  So far all I know is that the gun sales business has never been better and I need a FFL. Can some of you please share advice, tips, lessons learned, etc so that I can make an informed, educated decision? Can anyone advise on "FFL Kits" sold online? Here's a link to one that interests me. FFL123.com

Thanks, Dinny

[Conan The Librarian]

What's your unique selling proposition? The answer to that will probably answer a lot of the other questions.
 
I thought that to be an FFL you simply had to meet certain criteria, pay a fee, and work with a lawyer to so you understand the rules and laws governing the business. Are you sure you need a course for this?

[SHOOTALL]

I hope it works out but one consideration is what will you offer that say cheaper than dirt does ? What I mean is how will you beat their pricing ? will you speicalize ? They will buy a lot of volume and recieve discounts can you match their volume ? What will you offer the buyer ? that others don't or for a better price ? Not trying to be hard these are just questions that came to mind.

[Dinny]

What's your unique selling proposition? The answer to that will probably answer a lot of the other questions.
 I thought that to be an FFL you simply had to meet certain criteria, pay a fee, and work with a lawyer to so you understand the rules and laws governing the business. Are you sure you need a course for this?

I really haven't thought of having anything unique, just another dealer selling guns online during a peak sales time (at least the next 4 years ). I have also been told to get a LLC set up as soon as possible. I'm not sure that I need a course for anything except requesting the FFL. That, in itself, can be quite tricky if you don't know what you're doing. Also, if you fail the first time, that info has to go in subsequent requests to the ATF. Speed and accuracy is needed to get one approved before the current administration decides to severely limit the number of FFLs approved.

Thanks, Dinny

[Dinny]

If all goes according to plan (which it hardly ever does) then I will have incredibly low overhead and should be able to offer rock bottom prices that compete with other dealers who buy in bulk.

Thanks, Dinny

[Dinny]

Has anyone found specializing in one particular brand or type of guns to be advantageous? Most gunshops have a wide selection and that may be my first hint to how this question is answered. I wouldn't mind specializing in H&R Handi Rifles and Shotguns. Tim alone would probably keep me in business for years to come.

Thanks, Dinny

[Dixie Dude]

My uncle had an FFL before Klinton got in the white house.  After Klinton and the gun control bill.  You had to have permission from the city you lived in to get an FFL.  The city he lived in said he had to have a store or have his house designated as a business.  Then he had to put bars and a security system in his house.  Well, he told them it was order only.  He would get a gun ordered by someone, then he would go to the persons house, do the paperwork, and give them the gun.  They wouldn't buy that.  So he gave up his liscense.  He only got it anyway to buy personal guns at wholesale prices.  This might be harder than you think, especially if you are moved around a lot. 

[SHOOTALL]

I know of AR shops , Thompson Center shops , fine guns doubles O/U etc.

[SHOOTALL]

a real need is gun related stuff . quality stuff not junk.

[Dinny]

a real need is gun related stuff . quality stuff not junk.

Can you expound on that more? Which quality items do you want to see available?

Thanks, Dinny

[Defoe]

It hurts me to say it, but I don't think that anyone without a store-front or a gun repair business can get a FFL.

get tight with the quartermaster and start selling M16s

[Dinny]

It hurts me to say it, but I don't think that anyone without a store-front or a gun repair business can get a FFL.
get tight with the quartermaster and start selling M16s

Does mounting scopes count as gun repair? I'm really good at mounting scopes.... All our M16s are going to the Afghan Soldiers and we're getting M4s.
 
Thanks, Dinny

[Sourdough]

You don't need one of those FFL kits, you can get everything you need from the Federal Court House in your local area.

First of all you need to talk to someone who is in the gun business.  ATF&E put a lot of restrictions on FFLs during the Clinton gun ban years.  I have a friend who I do all my gun business through.  He has a store like operation in his basement.  And it is doing a good business.

What you are discribing is a distributorship.  Gun makers will not sell to the public or to a dealer in small batches.  They want to sell in large numbers to Distributers, who then break the order down into smaller out going orders.  You need a warehouse for that.  Until recently to buy a gun in Alaska that was not in stock on the sellers shelf it had to be ordered through V. F. Grace.  They were the only distributer in the state of Alaska.  AAFES, Fred Myer, K-Mart, and everyone else except Wal-Mart went through VF Grace.  Then Sportsman's Warehouse came in with their own distributership.  But unless you are willing to buy and recieve in bulk from the manufactor, they won't deal with you.  That's the way it was explained to me by my friend with the FFL.  He wants to order directly from Ruger and Remington, but they won't deal with him.  Too low volume.

[SHOOTALL]

most anything gun related . As example I would like to have a nice  cartrage carrier like the one I have . It holds 10 rounds and is made of nice stiff material , holds its shaps and protects the bullets. I have looked around at local store , Bass pro, Cabella's GreenTop and sportsman warehouse etc when I travel but none to be found anymore. I got some expensive ones at Cabela's but they are shoddy made. I saw a very expensive one at BassPro but it was shoddy IMHO and made in mexico. A full selection of choke tubes - CYL ,SK-1,SK-2 ,IC,LM, M ,IM,LF,F,IF , XF,XXF etc. , Good shooting gloves for different shooting -shotgun , pistol etc. . Quality hunting supplies like dog stuff or coon hunting etc. Nice leather holsters and belts . The AR stuff is a whole other market (maybe to flooded to make a go in) . Hunting pants with brier cloth on the front. Someone who offered quality at affordable pricing would get my business . One thing is ask customers what they want/need and not stock things they don't. You could offer deals , say your supplier gives you a good price you might send out a E-mail to customers offering them a good deal and only order what is needed saving you expence od holding stock.
 I hope you find a good business that is succesfful and only mentioned what I have hoping you can avoid pit falls. As a matter of fact I would rather support a venture like you are looking into over a box store anyday . Think I will check Graff and sons for that cart. carrier .
Maybe you could see what's on line and find a nitch.

[Dinny]

Thanks for the further explanation. I hope to take advantage of veteran's benefits for small businesses to get this all started. However, I have 2 young children and this will need to be well thought-out, planned and executed to keep them from losing any meals. I definitely won't be selling any junk, regardless of what I end up selling. It's just not in me.

Thanks, Dinny

[Defoe]

Dinny, I really hope it works out for you.  it would be nice to be in the gun business.

[SHOOTALL]

Keep us posted .
A thought is watch the gun ban news to see what guns will be aval. for sale in the future it's sure to be a different market if the gun grabbers get their way. It may be easier to start a business that has no baggage than try to re-establish an old one.

[Hodr]

Hello Dinny,
please pardon the impertince, what is your MOS?
 
Hodr

[thumper113]

Dinny,

I had thought about the same thing.  The issue I had was where I lived was zoned residential only so I couldn't operate out of my house.

To use my folks place in a different area I would have had to put in too much on security.

It's also going to be tough because I believe you'll have to re-apply after every PCS unless your wife is staying in one location.  I don't know if you can just transfer it from state-to-state.

While OK may be easy on you on zoning, if you get transferred to Ft. Lewis, it might end up rough.

I'd call branch and find out what your next assignment is and check not just your current assignment but your next one as well and call ATF and find out if you can just transfer it without having to re-apply.

BTW,  thank you for what you do.  I know how rough the deployments are on families and the sacrifices y'all make.

[Old Fart]

Dinny,
 
I know several guys who run small business gun shops out of thier house and most of them are just doing it for discounts.
 
There is one guy locally who has a internet only business. He primary business is in extremely high end stuff. I've never even looked for his website as I'm a extremely low end kind fo guy.    I don't even know what kind of guns he selling. Anyway my ex s-i-l works for him and had told me his business was doing quite well.
 
So maybe if you can find a niche market you can make a run at it.
 
 

[45-70.gov]

i have been selling out of my house for 30 years


make a list of questions  and PM me  with them and you phone numbe


i will call you tomorrow   or just answer on the e-mail.....late morning is best

[Dinny]

Dinny,
I had thought about the same thing.  The issue I had was where I lived was zoned residential only so I couldn't operate out of my house.
To use my folks place in a different area I would have had to put in too much on security.
It's also going to be tough because I believe you'll have to re-apply after every PCS unless your wife is staying in one location. I don't know if you can just transfer it from state-to-state.
While OK may be easy on you on zoning, if you get transferred to Ft. Lewis, it might end up rough.
I'd call branch and find out what your next assignment is and check not just your current assignment but your next one as well and call ATF and find out if you can just transfer it without having to re-apply.
BTW,  thank you for what you do.  I know how rough the deployments are on families and the sacrifices y'all make.

Those are all strong points made and ones that will certianly need to be taken into strong consideration. Thanks for your appreciation!

Thanks, Dinny

[Dinny]

So maybe if you can find a niche market you can make a run at it.

I would enjoy nothing more than having a Handi rifle custom shop. However, I'm not sure that I want to be the one insuring my shop against liability.

If I amassed a large enough collection of SB2 receivers, 357 MAG, 30-30, 7.62x39, 44 MAG, 45LC, 45-70 and 22 Hornet barrels I could sell custom rechambered Handis. I would also have to buy alot of equipment and employ a good gunsmith to make it all happen. I'm not sure that's what I want initially though. That's something else to grow into after the Army.

So what are some other niche ideas others have? I really don't want to get into ARs.

Thanks, Dinny

[Dinny]

i have been selling out of my house for 30 years
make a list of questions  and PM me  with them and you phone numbe
i will call you tomorrow   or just answer on the e-mail.....late morning is best

Thank you! I'll assemble a quick list and send it to you in a PM with my email address. I doubt you want to pay for the phone call.

Thanks, Dinny

[garbhead]

It hurts me to say it, but I don't think that anyone without a store-front or a gun repair business can get a FFL.

get tight with the quartermaster and start selling M16s

I think that is correct..when I checked into it a couple of years ago you had to list hours of operation. That is not a city requirement . It is part of FFL licensing process. Most cities now-a-days will issue anyone a city license for a business in your home with tons of people doing it. A guy on a couple of streets over from me got his and it is a class 07..manufacturer which allows buying/ selling of all firearms (except full auto) or assembling upper and lowers of AR-15 types and reloading ammo(I think) and gunsmithing and is cheaper than the regular FFL. He does all of his paperwork "online" which allows him to do transfers for $10.. I also used FFL123.com..It is around $40 for the kit, which takes you step-by-step thru the process...I didn't complete the process due to financial difficulties, but my kit is still valid(the guy re-newed it for me) so I probably will in the future..He seems like real nice and smart guy.

[45-70.gov]

the local zoning board was my biggest hurdle
i am  zoned residendial.........mad getting  my sales tax # difificult
ATF  said  i HAD  to ''be in the business''. not  a hobbiest....so the need for the tax number


ATF  checks  have on several times  ask for  proof of a zoning varience
i discussed conducting bisiness and setting  up a shop....in the garage of  another house in own
this house is on a paved road on the same block  and would keep customers out of my home
i discussed this with ATF during an inspection...
..he said  i would have to establish a new business at that location....but thats one guy
inventory  must be maintained on ''licensed premises''
guns can only be shipped to licensed  premises
customers may ONLY take possesseion at licensed premises.....[except gun shows]
ATF...used to have it in   for ..gun show dealers''  as per private conversation with ATF agent
all  ATF  have been very  professional  and  i have nothing to say  bad about them
i  ask one agent  why they have such a bad  rap ...he said
 ''some  people just don;t like us and do things to make me not like them''


5 times  they called about  guns i sold decades ago.....gun  traces
don't know if they were testing me  or if it was real
one  i know was real....X hubby took gun  i sold her when they devorced
not  sure how much trouble  i would be in  had i not answered the phone
or couldn't furnish the information


i like you  idea  of being  a MR. HANDI......HOW   IS THAT FOR A COMPANY NAME!!!!!

[gypsyman]

Dinny, I've been in the firearms business for over 25 years. It's a tough row to hoe!! If your really interested in getting an FFL,and want to do gun sales, be prepared to spend tons of money, to get started.($100,000 would be a good start) Your going to compete with business's that have a 30 to 60 day credit, order 50 to 100 guns at a time, and get them at a better price than you probably can. When I had an FFL back in the early 90's, there were dealers at gun shows, selling guns cheaper than I could order them. And, with sales going the way they have been, you could go to any of the big company's,Ruger,S&W,etc., hand them a million dollars for an order, and they would put you on a waiting list, as they can't fill the orders they have now. And, if you went to other companys and did the same thing, they could fill your order happily, but why. Because their guns arn't selling as well, that's why. Not saying you and your wife couldn't make a go of it. Find a niche market in accessories, and give it a go. I wouldn't reccommend ammo, very low mark up, and shipping is a killer any more. Big ammo dealers I know, are doing very well at the shows, just because most people have come to the realization that shipping costs are a major factor any more. Good Luck!! gypsyman

[Hodr]

Dinny,
There are quite a few avenues you might consider.  Try finding out if your unit has an actual machine shop.  A box of home baked cookies or a case of beer might get you started on training after hours with senior NCOs with a lot of experience.  This could translate into further job income later as well as helping defray the cost of equipment (business expense and deductible).  Also remember that machine training might be available at JR College when you get out or mayby you can talk someone into TDY training on Repairing the birds you ride in.  Last remember if you do start a business, Your wife is a member of a minority group,female,  and is someone who might be eligible for grants, free money, start up funds, almost free money, discounted loans, not as expensive money.  Just make her owner of any business and yourself the sole employee.  If possible see if she might like to try accounting.  I know a couple in the AirForce.  He is an RN O4, she is an accoutant and qulified to work for GSA.  Wherever he has been assigned she has slipped right into GSA accounting.  She got her BS degree in accounting at Cal and wangled her Masters while her husband was assigned in Germany.  She makes more than he does.
 
Hodr

[45-70.gov]

magine that
obama money to start a gun shop

[gypsyman]

Dinny, GOOD, gunsmith's are in high demand. I know of several that have put orders on hold, to catch up with backlogs. Most are so busy they are 1-3 months behind in work. There are a couple trade schools that have gunsmithing course's available, not sure if you can take them online, doesn't seem to practical, as gunsmithing is a hands on learning experience. Still, something to consider for the future. gypsyman