Author Topic: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors  (Read 1467 times)

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Offline charles p

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SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« on: November 27, 2012, 03:46:55 AM »
I assume the SAUMs are pretty dead now.  Don't hear much about WSSM calibers but the WSM line seems to have some survivors.
Which selections do you think will survive?  I think the 300 WSM and 270 WSM will make it.

Offline JPShelton

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2012, 01:55:09 PM »
  I think the 300 WSM and 270 WSM will make it.


So do I.  But I have no independent interest in them.  Don't really care whether they whither on the vine or not, as I didn't jump on that bandwagon and probably never will.


JP

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2012, 11:25:45 PM »
I wish I had kept a 7mm WSM, I won a few years ago. It was a pre Acu trigger Savage, would have made a nice gun for one of my kids. That was before I took up reloading, and could not justify the ammo cost.
 
I have a .325WSM that I'm very happy with. It's pretty gentle to shoot considering what it is.  I have shot my friends BLR in 300WSM and that is pretty gentle, again, considering what it is. I think of sending my 300 WM down the road everytime I shoot the .325WSM, that 300 is just brutal.
 
The WSM's have a place, though honestly they do nothing that hasn't been done before. The outrageous ammo costs and the limited selections of loads will make sure they never truly take off.  I see them plodding along and like you said the .300 and .270 being the long term survivors as they seem to be the most able to benefit from the case.
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Offline jhm

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 05:40:05 AM »
     I had both the 300 & 270 WSM gave my grandson the 270 and I kept the 300 stainless old style control feed one for myself, I used the 270 on a couple deer and several hogs here on the place and it was a performer, the 300 only for puting holes in paper so far.  Jim

Offline roper

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2012, 04:44:19 AM »
I assume the SAUMs are pretty dead now.  Don't hear much about WSSM calibers but the WSM line seems to have some survivors.
Which selections do you think will survive?  I think the 300 WSM and 270 WSM will make it.

I'm doing my part as I've had two 300WSM and one 270WSM build just adding to the herd.

Offline claysshotgunner

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 06:59:31 AM »
I believe the WSSM will survive... 223,243,25.  Main reason being that they are all popular with the Ar-15 crowd.

Offline tomtomz

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2012, 07:19:21 AM »
I keep a 270 WSM Vanguard simply because it is so well made and very accurate, easily reloadable, and too nice to part with.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 12:13:25 AM »
Id guess the only one that will be around for the long haul is the 300 wsm.
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Offline helotaxi

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2012, 04:30:41 AM »
The .270 WSM is nearly as popular as the .300.  It shoots faster than the .270 Weatherby and brass and ammo are rather plentiful.  It's meant as a hunting cartridge and the .270 cal is a popular hunting caliber in the US.  In addition, pretty much every rifle maker chambers for the .300 and .270 WSM at this point.  I think that they're both here to stay.

The WSSM are just as dead as the SAUM's and 7 and .325 WSM's.  There is a tiny following in the AR community with only one shop producing all the custom parts.  The upper receiver, bolt, bolt carrier and barrel extension are all specific to the cartridge family.  They are rare at best and pricey at least.  There are plenty of wildcats out there with a bigger following than the WSSM's have.

Of the effectively deceased, I only mourn the passing of the 7 WSM.  It had the most to offer in terms of a versatile big game and long range hunting and target cartridge.  I have a Browning X-bolt in 7WSM that I love and I am seriously considering ordering 2 barrels for my Savage that is currently a .270WSM for when that barrel is toast.

The WSSMs, .223 and .243 in particular, have a reputation for being very finicky with both accuracy and pressure.  The .223 and .243 are also really hard on barrels.  The .243 Win is considered a barrel burner, the WSSM version shoots 100fps faster than the .243 Win and runs 10kpsi hotter.  The .223 WSSM burns more powder and shoots faster than the .220 Swift.

Offline 44 Man

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2013, 04:20:30 PM »
When I walk into 'Jay's' (my favorite local gun dealer), I see lots of WSSM on the used gun rack.  Not so many WSM and very few of the old tried and true long action 300 Rem mags or 7mm Rem mags.  So that seems to tell the tail.  I think the Ruger Short Mags may make it, as long as Ruger continues to support them.  Ruger doesn't have a very good record at doing that as per the .480 Ruger, so we will see.  I like the idea of a short, handi rifle that shoot a mag ctg, so the concept is viable.  If we can keep a couple of ctg's each time a new series comes out, that's good for the industry.  We want them healthy so we will have rifles available when we wish to buy them.  44 Man
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2013, 12:40:57 AM »
i argued against them for years. Never could see that they filled a need that wasnt allready filled but a while back picked up an abolt in 300wsm. Its got a 22 inch barrel and weights about the same as an abolt in 243. It makes a nice package for when a guy wants mag power to tote around all day. Much better carrying rilfe then any of my other mag guns. I could almost be talked into a 7wsm too but its dieing fast and i guy would have to stock up on brass. Sure cant see why its dieing and the 270wsm is still going strong though. that one has me scratching my head. What i dont buy into though is that they provide the same or what some claim even better velocitys as the standard full sized mags. Load them both to the same pressures and the larger cases are going to win. Id like to see two rifles, one in 270wsm and one in 270 wby shot over the chrono the same day right in front of me with both factory ammo and with handloads loaded to the same pressure. Id bet my truck the wby would outpace the short mag.
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Offline Ladobe

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2013, 06:29:29 AM »
The "why's" in discussions like these are always interesting and informing.   From personal experience, overheard from someone who claims personal experience, overheard from someone who does not have personal experience, just a logical and reasonable guess...
 
Most would probably agree that barrel burner's, overboar cartridges are age old arguments that will always not be agreed on by everyone.   This is not meant to be yet another argument about them at all, rather just some observations from personal experience and those of personal friends that most likely will just add to the confusion of others (like it has for me sometimes).   
 
Despite cartridges being commonly labeled as BB/OB, they can and have stayed true in firearms for decades for some folks.   Why?   I've heard/read some of the suggested reasons attributed to why, but that doesn't necessarily make them fact and maybe just reasonable assumptions.  But it is fact that real life experiences have varied with the same cartridges commonly called BB/OB.
 
Lot's of folks on-line say they have burned out 243Win barrels, yet I know a few folks personally who have been using their same old factory stock 243Win's all their life for deer, predator and varmint hunting and they are still very capable for all the hunting they do with them.   And with the same scrawny factory sporter barrel that came on them new.   No idea of round counts on any of them, although I know one gent shoots many hundreds if not thousands in his every year as a serious P&V hunter plus for big game.   Surely those that have been used regular for up to 4-5 decades for P&V hunting have shot way more rounds than some say have burned out 243Win barrels.  They all reload, but I seriously doubt any of them shoot reduced loads simply because of the ranges they are commonly shot at for varmints alone (especially rock chucks/prairie dogs).  That one gent has shot deer with his further than many would even try to shoot varmints or predators with it.
 
Personally I've had some typically called BB/OB (22 Varminter, 220 Swift, lots of wildcats) that I used for P&V hunting for decades and had to have shot countless thousands of rounds through each without shooting out their barrels.  I too was a reloader from the late 50's on, and did not shoot reduced loads in them.   
 
So in my case anyway, so called BB/OB's and not discounted simply because of that moniker.   Of those the OP started this thread with, I only have a WSSM (243).  I bought it for a specific purpose that I am still confident it would excel for... but unfortunately my health failed before I got to ever shoot it to find out, so it remains NIB unfired.  So I actually have no personal experience with any of those being discussed here in particular.
 
Will the SAUM, WSM, WSSM cartridges survive?  I have no idea with varied attitudes about BB/OB.
 
Was there even a need for them?   Certainly, just because something doesn't float your boat it can certainly float somebody else's.    That 243WSSM I bought wasn't really needed, I had lots of other firearms that could have done the job I bought it for... but I thought it would do it more efficiently than any of them.   Besides, any excuse to buy another firearm with all it's gear for a new cartirdge to play with was enough.   I was running out of wildcats I wanted to try and hadn't yet.   ;) 
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline jhm

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2013, 02:15:54 PM »
    Loyd If I am not mistaken all the brass is the same except for the neck dia. so if you run into a good deal on a 7 WSM you should be able to use any of the other 2 brass to reload with.  Jim

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2013, 02:51:37 AM »
actually the 7wsm is a bit shorter and has the shoulder a bit father ahead then the others and the brass needs to be fireformed. At least thats what ive been told. Surely not a game breaker though.
    Loyd If I am not mistaken all the brass is the same except for the neck dia. so if you run into a good deal on a 7 WSM you should be able to use any of the other 2 brass to reload with.  Jim
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 02:53:26 AM »
good answer
 
Was there even a need for them?   Certainly, just because something doesn't float your boat it can certainly float somebody else's.    That 243WSSM I bought wasn't really needed, I had lots of other firearms that could have done the job I bought it for... but I thought it would do it more efficiently than any of them.   Besides, any excuse to buy another firearm with all it's gear for a new cartirdge to play with was enough.   I was running out of wildcats I wanted to try and hadn't yet.   ;) 
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 03:03:27 AM »
We need the superfluous chamberings.


Without them our gun makers would be hard pressed to survive. After you sell a man a shotgun, a .22 rimfire, a .22 Swift, and a 30-06 there isn't much else he needs to buy, with the exception of ammo. The millions upon millions of redundant rifles are what keeps the factories open.
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Offline mannyrock

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 03:57:57 AM »
 
Empty Quiver,
 
   I think you've got it right.  These unnecessary rifles are like sports cars or $60,000 suvs (the Lexis SUV).      Nobody needs them, but there is about a 5% groups of our population who are sheer impulse buyers, and are into conspicuous consumption, and love flushing their money down the toilet for these things because it makes them feel special.   So, if these people keep the firearms industry alive, then I guess we should be happy.
 
   Personally, the only short mags that made any sense to me were the .300 WSM, and the .270 WSM.  Although I wouldn't buy one, I can at least see where they fill a rational nitch in the firearms world. 
 
Best, Mannyrock

Offline NateS

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Re: SAUM, WSM, and WSSM Survivors
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2013, 11:56:04 AM »
Frankly, I think we had some pretty good options before these three came along.


I think the 7saum has quite a bit going for it really, but in the hunting world I'm not sure it will last.  There's too many hunters that think you need a "hot rod" cartridge to hunt. As I understand it the 7saum still has a bit going for it in benchrest and some other competitions, but doubt that it will fly in the hunting world.