Author Topic: 12 ga guns/brass casings and black powder  (Read 1663 times)

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Offline Flintlock61

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12 ga guns/brass casings and black powder
« on: November 27, 2012, 10:25:41 AM »
Anyone out there handload 12 ga  brass for hunting or shooting? I am thinking about getting into this to add some fun to turkey and waterfowl hunting.  Wondering what guns you use and where you get your supplies, handloading equipment, etc.  Thank you in advance!

Offline Nobade

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Re: 12 ga guns/brass casings and black powder
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2012, 03:15:35 AM »
You can talk to Track Of The Wolf or Ballistic Products, they both carry wads for those hulls. Or you can make your own.  The old roll crimp machines that often are sold on Ebay work perfect for rolling the mouth closed to hold the over shot wad. A little water glass seals it and makes sure the wad doesn't fall out. Elmer's glue works somewhat for that too if you can't find water glass.

Treat the hulls like any other brass case, decap and wash them well once you get home and they will last a long time. RCBS does make a press mounted die set to resize them, but you probably won't need it unless you interchange ammo between guns.

I would be careful with using them for waterfowling. Most places require non toxic shot, and BP doesn't make steel go fast enough to be very impressive. You can use heavi shot but the price is nuts. But for turkey hunting they should work very well, or general shooting.
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Offline darkgael

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Re: 12 ga guns/brass casings and black powder
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2012, 12:52:22 AM »
I have been using brass hulls for more than twenty years. I have used Magtech brass as well as hulls from the old Brass Extrusion Labs Ltd.   I have, in addition, a bunch of zinc hulls made by Alcan.
The best hulls by far are those made by Rocky Mt. Cartridge Company. They are also the most expensive at about six dollars each. They are worth the expense. The RMC hulls are lathe turned, true to bore, and use regular 209 shotshell primers, and can use modern shotshell wads and smokeless powders. Given proper care, you will use them for the rest of your life and then leave them to your kids. You can use modern reload data for straight walled hulls.
Using BP, you need 12 Gauge wads and cards, though plastic wads will work. BP is not kind to plastic and it melts and may leave plastic deposits in the bore.
The most commonly available brass hulls nowadays are the Magtech hulls....more readily available and substantially less expensive.
The Magtechs are drawn brass hulls. This means that, though they are 12 gauge hulls, the interior of the hull is larger than 12 gauge. Modern 12 gauge components are too small to work properly. One needs to use 11 gauge components. Thus, one must use/build a traditional wad column from cards and wads (available from Circle Fly Wads or Ballistic Products Inc.). They are primed with large pistol primers. They are designed for use with BP, though I have used light loads of smokeless.
Both the types of hulls, once loaded, are sealed the same way....a thin "overshot" card which is sealed with glue. I use Duco cement. I have tried Elmer's Glue, and Waterglass (liquid sodium silicate). They work. Duco works better.
When I use the Magtech hulls and BP, I load two and three quarter dram loads - about 70 grains of FFg BP. The hull is primed using an antique priming tool. More about that in a moment.
After priming, the powder is measured and dropped into the hull. On top of the powder does an 11 gauge "nitro" or over powder card - stiff cardboard about 0.135" thick. Then there are 11 gauge fiber wads atop that....how many are used are a function of how much shot you load. I use one 1/2" wad and another one split in half so as to make 3/4" total. Then I drop 1 1/8 oz. of shot. Last comes that overshot card. I use a 10 gauge card for a tight fit and seal it round with Duco.
Priming - even without a special tool, priming is still easy. You need a flat hard surface and a metal or plastic tube about six inches long. You put the primer on the hard surface, place the hull over the primer so the primer pocket lines up, put the tube into the hull and, gently, tap the hull onto the primer.
ballistic products inc has a manual about reloading brass hulls.
Note: do not roll crimp these hulls. The crimp will not come out and will make reloading them very difficult. How do I know this?
Pete
Reloading tools for Magtech hulls from EBay;



Offline Flintlock61

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Re: 12 ga guns/brass casings and black powder
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2013, 05:09:33 AM »
Thank you both for the information!  It took me a while to get back here.  Did a little goose hunting with my 11 ga. flinter.  I found a cheap reloader on ebay that I will adapt for handloading my brass.  Will let you know how I am doing and will most likely have some more questions.  Thanks much again.

Offline Longknife 76

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Re: 12 ga guns/brass casings and black powder
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2013, 05:00:18 AM »
You can use plastic shot shell casings too. They will not melt like some people say but they will get a little deformed and can only be used one time for black powder. I get used ones from the trap range or even better get some 3 inchers from my duck hunting friends...FREE!!!! cut off the crimp, get wads to fit and load just like stated above...Shoot 'em and toss 'em, no cleanup of dirty cases....Ed

Offline darkgael

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Re: 12 ga guns/brass casings and black powder
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2013, 12:49:18 PM »
Yeah, ^^^^^^^ what he said. That'll work.
Pete

Offline sharps4590

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Re: 12 ga guns/brass casings and black powder
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 02:41:27 AM »
I do basically the same thing Pete described.  I use the 2 1/2 in. Mag-Tech cases in 16 bore for my German drilling and combination gun.  I do own a Lee LoadAll for 16 for plastic hulls for one of my newer drillings and an Ithaca Flues in 16 bore but have never used it on brass hulls....I don't know if it would work given that the brass hulls use large pistol primers and the Lee tool uses 209's....and I have yet to resize my brass hulls.
 
About the only thing I would emphasize is what Pete said about not crimping brass hulls, don't do it, not even once.  That, and one thing that has happened to me, is that even when glued in with Duco cement one should alternate barrels or move the unfired shell to the barrel most likely to be fired first.  If left in one barrel for several shots I have had the overshot card shoot loose and dump the shot.  Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I don't see how.  First time it happened I was on a woods walk on my place killing rocks with the rifle barrel of my combination gun.  When a squirrel presented itself the shotgun barrel made the most unusual report when I fired at the squirrel.  Pressure doesn't build nearly so well when there is no shot load present....nor does a squirrel seem to care much, except for the noise.
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Offline darkgael

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Re: 12 ga guns/brass casings and black powder
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 11:23:42 PM »
Quote
and I have yet to resize my brass hulls.
You don't need to resize them. I have hulls that I have been using since 1990 that have never been resized. They are drawn brass hulls like the Magtech brass.
If you really want or have to, I would be wary of that little resizing ring on the Lee press.
Both RCBS and CH4D make resizing dies. Pricey.

Offline sharps4590

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Re: 12 ga guns/brass casings and black powder
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2013, 03:04:30 AM »
dark, I have seen those dies for sale....yes sir, pricey!!!  And no, I don't believe I would attempt to size my brass hulls with that little steel ring the Lee uses.  Obviously it's ok for plastic or paper hulls but full length brass hulls....frankly I don't need to know.  I use my hulls interchangeably between a German 16 bore combination gun and a German 16 bore drilling and have never needed to size them.  Just lucky I suppose.
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