The One Rifle

[Ranch13]

That 500 yd business is mostly crud. I'm betting there's more wounded elk lost to 500 yd shots from 300 magnums, than there ever has been or will be from a 30-30. The chances of some slob hunter lobbing a bullet from a 300 into an elk at 500 is a lot greater , than someone ever getting a 30-30 bullet lobbed into one at 500 yds. The amount of elevation needed and the winddrift from the 30-30 is going to rule out 99.9% of the hits on anything at 500 yds on the first shot. And even if someone were to get the 5+ft of wind drift at 500 yds in a 10mph crosswind, a 170 gr 30-30 bullet is still carrying over 400 flbs of energy at 500 yds...
Bottom line, the 30-30 works a whale of alot better on game of all sizes than most with zero experience with the cartridge think it does.

[FPH]

I've owned and shot a 30-30 since 1968.....you are full of rationalizations......we disagree.....to each their own.  Oh FT lbs at 500 for a .300 weatherby 180 gr. about 1400 .......200 gr-over 2000.....you say 400 for the 30-30?

[JPShelton]

I'm bias toward the 30-30 myself.  The first large bore rifle I was given was a 1928 Savage 99 in 30-30 when I turned 13.  That does not make me take a rifle of inappropriate caliber into the field for Elk.  There are too many better and larger calibers for that.  If you have taken all your Elk with one shot kills with a 30-30, you must be quite the stalker.

I am "quite the stalker," actually.  That's probably because my first gun was a lever action .30-30 and I learned fairly quickly to work within its "limitations" instead of fretting over them.  It turned out that the .30-30 really wasn't all that limiting to me, in spite of the fact that I have spent most of my hunting career on ground that was relatively "wide open" country, with some of that being in terrain where trees were a rare sight.  Starting off the .30-30 forced me to exercise some discipline before pulling the trigger, and to conduct my hunting in a manner that would put my intendend quarry within range of my rifle, even when there wasn't a tree in sight for miles.
 
I don't mean to be a stickler for accuracy, but I didn't take all of the elk I've killed so far with a .30-30. I've only killed six of them with the round.  I've taken another six with the .270 Winchester, and a few more with a .495" patched round ball from my muzzleloading Lyman Great Plains Rifle.
 
I could have killed all but one of the 14 elk I've taken with a .30-30, though.  My hunting game doesn't change much due to the rifle I've got in my hands.  Even if I still had my No. 1 in .300 Weatherby, or the No. 1 Tropical in .375 that replaced it, I'd still want to get as close as possible before pulling the trigger.  And I still would. 
 
Fourteen elk in a lifetime doesn't make me an expert on the subject, but the novelty of killing one wore off the first time I lined up the sights on one and squeezed the trigger.  If I have to pass up shots because my rifle isn't up to the task of taking them, that's okay with me.  I'll go find another than I can shoot with the rifle I've got.  Or I might even go home as elkless as I was when I arrived in elk country.  That's okay, too.  I've got plenty of seasons left to shoot another one.
 
I doubt if they've become even more bulletproof in the here and now than they were in the late 80's and 90's when I was hunting them actively.  I didn't need a belted magnum for elk hunting then and I doubt I'll need one going forward.
 
I could use a good trail horse, though ....  And a trailer to haul it around in.....  And maybe a mule or two.....
 
JP

[FPH]

 
I am "quite the stalker," forward.
 
I could use a good trail horse, though ....  And a trailer to haul it around in.....  And maybe a mule or two.....
 
JP


Well I'm happy to see you operate within the parameters of your rifle and enjoy the outdoor experience as much as the "hunt".  Mules and horses are music to my  ears......I'm tired of hearing ATVs in the field ( same for boom boxes).....I sure as heck won't be packing an Elk out anymore.

[mcwoodduck]

Problem is, too many people will take that 500 yd shot with the 30-30.  This far exceededs it capabilities.  I love the way you  throw out mathmatical data like hard ballistic facts and rationalize their way to their contention.  The 30-30 is a great round..,...just not an Elk round.  I know a guy who killed a cow Elk with a .22lr when he was 12......is the .22lr an Elk round?

I think there is a big difference between a country boy shooting out to 500 yards and a city boy shooting out ot 500 yards.
First the coiuntry boy knows what 500 yards looks like and has shot at things that far before.
Granted the 30-30 is not what many would want for a 500 yard gun but to each his own.  An elk is not bullet proof and a 30-30 round will not bounce off at 500 yards. 
300 yards is as far as I am confidant shooting with either my 308 or my 338WM.  I know either is capable of shooting farther and I have taken a 350 yard shot at a running pig I had already hit and needed to make the shot before it got over a ridge and disapeared.  I think I understand may shooting capabilities and the rifles I use. I would suspect if I had a 30-30 as my sole rifle I would have learned to shoot it to pushing the envelope and may even use 30 American ammo in it (pointed bullets) making it a two shot lever gun.

[FPH]

I have found 30-30 bullets(150s) that have traveled between the hide and the muscle of an Elk.  I found this as a City boy shot( at about 300 yds)and chased the Elk into my range where I killed it with my .300 Weatherby( at about 250 yds).  We had to get a game warden to weigh the bullets to determimne the kill shot, as he would not believe he had not killed the Elk.  I have to give him credit though..... he hit the Elk 3 times (all in the butt).  I have also seen a cow take about eight gut shots from a 30-30 at about 50 yds and make it over a ridge where I'm sure she died......great shots and of course no tracking attempted.

[Ladobe]

Just because some folks are not confident in a 30-30, there are those of us who are confident in them from their getting it done just fine for decades.   My opinion won't change because of what some ACE says when very long experience has proven otherwise.    Doesn't matter what firearm a slob hunter is carrying to wound game, it's not the rifle, its the slob.

[Ranch13]

I noticed in the example given why a 30-30 isn't a good elk rifle, that none of the shots mentioned went anywhere that would be considered into the vitals. Matter of fact I have witnessed elk shot in the same spot as mentioned in the example from both 300 winchester and 300 wby shooters, that drew the exact same results.
 Bottom line is some road hunter splatters a handful of rounds into the south end of a north bound elk, or blows the paunch full of holes from his trusty 300, if a bullet doesn't get into the vitals and disrupt the lungs or heart it's going to be along trail to find the dead elk.
 Put a bullet from a 30-30 thru and elks vitals, put a bullet from a 300flinchmaster thru the vitals of an elk and neither elk will achieve any higher degree of dead than the other.

[FPH]

[quote    My opinion won't change because of what some ACE says


Well. I didn't know we gotten to the name calling stage.....heh ACE?

[pastorp]

Somehow I believe the OP said he wanted a all around cartridge. Not a Elk cartridge. Boy have we gotten off track with this discussion. 

The question was raised that since FPHs friend killed a cow elk with a 22lr was it a elk gun. My answer is to him it was. Just like my missionary friends 22HP was a tiger gun to him, & he had the tiger skins to prove it. Or my western friends 22-250 was a elk rifle because he killed elk with it.

The older I get the more I believe it's really not the gun. It's a hunter that knows the limitation of his gun. And chooses to stay within them. I used a .308 mostly when I lived in elk country. But I used a bow too. Both worked, they just needed a different hunting style.

Regards,

[RevGeo]

Problem is, too many people will take that 500 yd shot with the 30-30.  This far exceededs it capabilities.  I love the way you  throw out mathmatical data like hard ballistic facts and rationalize their way to their contention.  The 30-30 is a great round..,...just not an Elk round.  I know a guy who killed a cow Elk with a .22lr when he was 12......is the .22lr an Elk round?

Once again an adequate round (the 30-30, not the .22) is blamed when the fault lies with the shooter. I rest my case.
I hope the OP finds himself a good single shot for his 'one rifle'.
Happy New Year to all.

[SHOOTALL]

I have read where the 30-30 has killed ELK . the new leveraloution ammo was used and worked well. Of course range was short. I find it offensive that we limit our choice of gun based on a few who are of slobs . The better the hunter the less powerful the arm need be with in reason. Yes I got over the magnum crase .

[Mike Scott]

The 7x57 Rimmed on a Ruger No 1 is a great idea.  Maybe the 45/70?  You may be able to make a 307 Win from a 308.  You might also look for custom falling blocks rifle on the auction sites.  Some of them sell for highly discounted prices compared to the cost to build them.  Did anyone suggest the B78/1885 Browning/Winchesters?

[Flynmoose]

A Ruger #1S in 45-70 has a 22 inch barrel, making it easy to carry and pack away for transport. It also has open sights if that is preferred over a scope. I have "old eyes" and use scopes. I only mantioned this because it is an easily carried rifle in a rimmed caliber. Hard lead 405s with TrailBoss powder make an accurate plinking load with a high yield of fun! Ruger #1 loads will make a large hole in any animal in North America, and some in Africa as well.
FM

[gunther66]

 Nevadan
I'm surprised no one has suggested  a Handi or other switch barrel rifle.
Barrels in 308 or 30/06  and  35 Whelen should suffice for your needs. If you reload,send  'em to a good gunsmith  and have a rim cut made on both barrels  so you can fire rimmed cases.  The beauty of this is you can still fire factory rounds in each if you wish.
Food for thought maybe?  G66

[critter44]

I like my Ruger #1 in 45-70 and it has a rim! Quite a thumper but not so much at very long range.

[Nevadan]

  Sorry I been gone so long, I didn't receive any more e-mail notifications since my last post for some reason and I never thought to look back.  I have been reading other post though and I gotta say, I like this forum.<

First I have to say thanks to everyone for their input it is appreciated.<

Winter Hawk: Thanks for the pictures of your reloading kit and scale; I got everything I need to put one together except the box and scale.  Now I                              know what kind of scale to look for.  Also thanks for mentioning the H&R 30-30 reamed to 30-40 Krag, it’s not the platform I would                            want to take with me but it would be a relatively inexpensive way to try out the cartridge.<

Several people have asked why the rim or suggested Rimless cartridges.  I know that allot of Ruger no1 and Winchester 1885s have been chambered for rimless cartridges and are accurate and function fine but rimed cartridges do have an advantage in falling blocks and most importantly, I just like them.<

gunther66: several people have mentioned Encores and such but I am set on a falling block.  wganz point me to a company that makes switch barrel Falling Blocks, I am definitely going to have to give them a call to find out what the cost.
<

I agree with those who say that the 30-30 is sufficient for Elk if ranges are reasonable.  I have know several men who the only rifle they ever owned was a 30-30 Winchester lever-action and they would not hesitate to take elk with that cartridge.  I would only be comfortable taking the shot out to a maximum of a hundred yards (never having owned or shot one).  Since an Elk hunt would be a rare occurrence for me, I  don't want to go home empty handed because I couldn't get closer than 100 yards.<

At the moment I am leaning towards 30-40 krag, the more I read about it the more I like it especially the ackley improved version.  7x57R would also be good choice but brass is expensive.  Others have mentioned bigger bore cartridges like the 45-70, I have to admit I do like these.  38-55 and 375 Winchester are all cartridges I like but are somewhat overkill for coyotes and not well suited for varminting which will be a use I will put the rifle to at times.

[45-70.gov]

of all the guns  i shoot/have......
i shoot  my handi 357 max the most....with  38s...probly  more than all others together
but  the 30-30 power  level is there is needed
and the  ammo for the revolver in my pocket  now.. is the same ammo  for this handi

[Drilling Man]

I have found 30-30 bullets(150s) that have traveled between the hide and the muscle of an Elk.  I found this as a City boy shot( at about 300 yds)and chased the Elk into my range where I killed it with my .300 Weatherby( at about 250 yds).  We had to get a game warden to weigh the bullets to determimne the kill shot, as he would not believe he had not killed the Elk.  I have to give him credit though..... he hit the Elk 3 times (all in the butt).  I have also seen a cow take about eight gut shots from a 30-30 at about 50 yds and make it over a ridge where I'm sure she died......great shots and of course no tracking attempted.

  And i saw a brown bear shot several times with a 378 Wby., only to run off and be found dead more than a week later.
 
  AND i've seen a 30-06 drop a brown bear in it's tracks...  SO, what do we determine from that???  The 30-06 is a better brown bear cartridge than a 378Wby.
 
  Let's get real!  A properly loaded 30-06 is certainly more than enough cartridge for ANY elk and if you can't get it done with one, that's on YOU not the cartridge!
 
  DM

[BUGEYE]

The .303 British is a good rimmed round, now try finding a single shot for it.

This is a great round, and you can still get rifles in great shape.
If I was still young and could run fast, I'd take on a grizzly with it.

(that run fast thing includes .460 Weatherby)

[pastorp]

Believe me you can't outrun a brown bear.  you just half to kill him if it comes to that. 

Regards,

[twoshooter]

 The Ruger # 3 was made in a 30/40 Krag, that is substantially more powerful than a 30/30, is rimmed, and is plausible for elk if need be. A 376 Steyr or 338 Marlin are rimmed, if you could find a single shot for them. The Marlin itself would make a fine single rifle battery rifle, but it is pricey and the ammo would be hard to find. A 9.3 X74R was also made in the #1 I believe.

[DEACONLLB]

I know a dealer that has a number one in 338 and also a 9.3x74 I almost traded for them at the last big gun show but gave it some thought and changed my mind oh well he will be at the next big show in Tulsa may still trade him out of one. That is all he deals in is Rugers mainley number ones and black hawks but a little of Rugers other stuff throwed in.
Deacinllb

[SHOOTALL]

Problem is, too many people will take that 500 yd shot with the 30-30.  This far exceededs it capabilities.  I love the way you  throw out mathmatical data like hard ballistic facts and rationalize their way to their contention.  The 30-30 is a great round..,...just not an Elk round.  I know a guy who killed a cow Elk with a .22lr when he was 12......is the .22lr an Elk round?

I think there is a big difference between a country boy shooting out to 500 yards and a city boy shooting out ot 500 yards.
First the coiuntry boy knows what 500 yards looks like and has shot at things that far before.
Granted the 30-30 is not what many would want for a 500 yard gun but to each his own.  An elk is not bullet proof and a 30-30 round will not bounce off at 500 yards. 
300 yards is as far as I am confidant shooting with either my 308 or my 338WM.  I know either is capable of shooting farther and I have taken a 350 yard shot at a running pig I had already hit and needed to make the shot before it got over a ridge and disapeared.  I think I understand may shooting capabilities and the rifles I use. I would suspect if I had a 30-30 as my sole rifle I would have learned to shoot it to pushing the envelope and may even use 30 American ammo in it (pointed bullets) making it a two shot lever gun.

Don't know if its country vs city or not BUT there are alot of folks who don't know what 500 yards looks like. We have a 500 yard range and many a shooter I have taken to the range thinks its a 1000 yards .
another thing with my 44 RedHawk I can hit the gong at 500 yards with open sights . Takes 2-3 sighters then its hit after hit. And I would not attempt a shot at a deer much over 60 yards with the gun. Shooting paper or steel at 500 yards from a bench is not shooting game at that distance from a field position. A few yards mis judgement in distance can send the bullet over or under the elk or worst wound it.
there are guys who can make the shot but they pratice it alot . Its not a shot you can buy .

[Ranch13]

I believe there is a bit of difference between a city boys outside experiences with gun in hand and a country kid.
 How many city kids know how far it is across a 10 rod wheat strip, or how long from one end of an 80 acre hay meadow to another, and how wide is that hay meadow? County kid is more apt to know how small a milk cow looks on the far end of a 1/4 section pasture, and how many steps it'll take to get to her to bring her back to the barn for milking. The list could go on....

[sharps4590]

If you can come off the Ruger #1 or 1885 there are lots of European single shot rifles out there in rimmed cartridges, IF you are going to reload.  The first that comes to mind is the 9.3 X 74R.  Good for anything on this continent and as with any can be loaded down.
The 7 X 57R has been mentioned and it's a fine cartridge, I have one in a drilling.  The 8 X 57R would be a fine cartridge also.

[jedman]

  I just bought a Win. 1885 ( used )  at a good price.   Seems that right now the bulk of gun buyers are looking for semi auto, assult type rifles or something they think will soon be forbiddin.
 Like several have mentioned there are the Ruger #1 and # 3, the 1885 models some are made by Italian and other Euro countries plus many customs that have been rebarreled on fine German or other falling block actions.   I have a eye out for such guns all the time and you can find many of them in the $ 600.00 to $1000.00 range.
  Find one you like and dont fret so much about the caliber.  I did mention the 7 X 57 R before and  the OP thought that brass would be expensive.  Graf.s for example has 3 brands of factory loaded ammo for under $ 20.00 a box.  I shoot that caliber alot and its no more expensive than a 30-06.
 Just my thoughts .              jedman

[wganz]

I just picked up my T/C Dimension rifle this morning. That is one nice feeling rifle. There are about a dozen different calibers that you can get it set up for.

[351 power]

.303 in the ruger. they have them here in canada, wish i could afford one

[darkgael]

Maybe the 45/70

Took three pages. I was thinking that it might be a viable option.
Pete