When it comes to raising taxes, the obama supporters say..

[ironglow]

  The Democrats are all in a hubub..wanting to raise taxes!  If they can't raise taxes on upper incomes alone, they will raise taxes on all of us..
    So, I suppose it is only fair to see how well Obama & Co. pay their taxes.  Clearly; with the Obama administration it is a case of.."do as we say , not as we do .  Members of the obama administration alone owe back taxes approaching $1 million.. perhaps Obie should collect those taxes first..   How do we spell hypocrites?
  http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/shocker-obama-administration-owes-833970-in-back-taxes/
 
  If you read down further you will find that federal employees in general are behind on billions of dollars in taxes..

[magooch]

Taxation should be fair if nothing else and the fairest way to raise taxes would be to raise taxes on those who voted for the big spenders (dumycrats).  The rate should be 50% on everyone who voted for the Bamster and his crowd--with no regard for their income bracket.

[BUGEYE]

On the drudge report early this morning before they updated, there was an article that said when brittain raised the taxes on millionaires, 2/3s of them left the country.
Kalifornia people and companies are leaving the state, so what does obama the idiot think will happen with his new tax?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9707029/Two-thirds-of-millionaires-left-Britain-to-avoid-50p-tax-rate.html

[ironglow]

   If the obama supporters get their way on this issue..we can anticipate many of the wealthiest Americans to settle in places like Switzerland, Australia & Canada...and take their corporate headquarters with them..

[DDZ]

   If the obama supporters get their way on this issue..we can anticipate many of the wealthiest Americans to settle in places like Switzerland, Australia & Canada...and take their corporate headquarters with them..

Yes, its something the tax the rich crowd can't quite grasp.

[ChungDoQuan]

And the rest of the package is punishing tariffs for doing business with the US--- still the largest market in the world--- as foreigners. If they move away, others will just step up and fill the void.

[Shu]

You mean to say taxing the rich won't work? Sure it will. The democrats know best. Raise taxes on people creating jobs, demand more health care provided by buisinesses, raise mininum wage for unskilled workers to 20+ an hour. This will gauruntee prosperity through out the land. The rich don't mind paying more taxes.  It is their duty to everyone who refuses to work or better themselves.

[ChungDoQuan]

Very good summation of Righty mythology.

[scootrd]

You mean to say taxing the rich won't work? Sure it will. The democrats know best. Raise taxes on people creating jobs, demand more health care provided by buisinesses, raise mininum wage for unskilled workers to 20+ an hour. This will gauruntee prosperity through out the land. The rich don't mind paying more taxes.  It is their duty to everyone who refuses to work or better themselves.

I an exhausted over this Job creator argument.  The middle class are the true Job creators, not the wealthy. If the middle class don't have $$ in their pockets to buy product -  companies cannot grow ,expand operations and employ more peoples who in turn make more products. No monies in their pockets , no products purchased, economy stagnates, inventories sit on shelves(at a cost).

We need true tax reform ,
close Loopholes,
Extend tax rates for all (middle class and well to do alike) on first "negotiate a dollar amount" earned.
Negotiate a number for corporate rates and stick with it.
Eliminate waste in the system on entitlements side . If you cut the waste you can reach the goal.
Reward companies that create US  jobs and tax the heck out of those that outsource. and if they move their whole operations overseas , god bless 'em and then lets levi tariffs on their US imports.
And yes eliminate unnecessary defense spending.

BTW  -  When taxes first took roots only companies products were to be taxed, not individuals incomes.

When over 1/2 of the US corps pay ZERO federal taxes and their surrogates scream "the rate is too high" they get no sympathies from me. 

With regards to Taxes raised on the wealthy will  force them to move to Switzerland ,  Go for it , I'm all for letting a person be closer to their Tax havens.

Stop screwing around congress  -  this ain't friggin Rocket science.


Next time we want to spread our military all around the world to fight xx number of wars  -  don't put it on a damn credit card and avoid this economic situation in the future.

The closer we get back to a Jeffersonian style of govt , the better.

[ChungDoQuan]

Ditto, Scoot.

[magooch]

The main problem is that most people don't seem to understand the enormity of the problem.  It isn't going to be fixed by adding additional tax on anyone.  This silly crap about taxing the rich is a side show to distract from what really is wrong.  It's the spending--stupid, or in other words, it's the stupid spending.
 
The rich are already paying the majority of taxes and raising taxes on them by any amount won't even make a noticeable dent in the deficit, let alone the debt.
 
If you think you can deter the job creators from leaving the country by threatening them with tariffs--think again.  How do you distinguish between a company that has left our shores and any other importer.  If you want to really screw up the economy, just start a trade war with all the counrties we trade with.  Actually, taxing business is a silly notion, because in reality, they just collect taxes; the consumers pay the taxes and the cost of living just goes up.
 
 

[Cuts Crooked]

Heard on the news this AM that the democrats are making an offer: Raise taxes now to avoid "the cliff" and they will "consider spending cuts next year".

Does that have a familiar ring to it?

[scootrd]

The main problem is that most people don't seem to understand the enormity of the problem.  It isn't going to be fixed by adding additional tax on anyone.  This silly crap about taxing the rich is a side show to distract from what really is wrong.  It's the spending--stupid, or in other words, it's the stupid spending.
 
The rich are already paying the majority of taxes and raising taxes on them by any amount won't even make a noticeable dent in the deficit, let alone the debt.
 
If you think you can deter the job creators from leaving the country by threatening them with tariffs--think again.  How do you distinguish between a company that has left our shores and any other importer.  If you want to really screw up the economy, just start a trade war with all the counrties we trade with.  Actually, taxing business is a silly notion, because in reality, they just collect taxes; the consumers pay the taxes and the cost of living just goes up.
 
 

"Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

"Would it not be better to simplify the system of taxation rather than to spread it over such a variety of subjects and pass the money through so many new hands?" --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

"The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied. ... Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." --Thomas Jefferson to Thaddeus Kosciusko

"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

"It must be observed that our revenues are raised almost wholly on imported goods." --Thomas Jefferson to Gouverneur Morris.

"The simplest system of taxation yet adopted is that of levying on the land and the laborer. But it would be better to levy the same sums on the produce of that labor when collected in the barn of the farmer; because then if through the badness of the year he made little, he would pay little. It would be better yet to levy it only on the surplus of this produce above his own wants. It would be better, too, to levy it, not in his hands, but in those of the purchaser; because though the farmer would in fact pay it, as the purchaser must deduct it from the original price of his produce yet the farmer would not be sensible that he paid it... What a comfort to the farmer to be allowed to supply his own wants before he should be liable to pay anything, and then to pay only out of his surplus." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison.

[Ruskin]

"close loopholes".  What does that mean?  Tell me what loopholes we are talking about?  Maybe it is just retoric to make a deduction sound evil.  I would like to see the loopholes they are talking about before I get on the close the loophole bandwagon.

[BUGEYE]

just saw pelosi on the news saying that congress had already voted on one trillion in spending cuts.
that's the first I've heard of that.

[ironglow]

And the rest of the package is punishing tariffs for doing business with the US--- still the largest market in the world--- as foreigners. If they move away, others will just step up and fill the void.

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  Just like the average libby..be so overcome with envy that they are driven to PUNISH all hard work and success..
You still haven't offered any excuse as to just why the big "tax & spend" libbies with Obama..have reneged on so much of their FAIR taxes..
 
 

[garbhead]

The only reason taxes are going to be going up is the fact that the Bush tax cuts are expiring. The expiration date was part of the law that was passed by Congress.  They were scheduled to expire earlier, but the Republicans and Democrats made a deal to extend them to Dec 31, 2012. Part of the deal was that if disagreements over spending weren't resolved by now, then there would be automatic across-the-board spending cuts....so its not actually the Dumycrats raising taxes, its the Congress(House and Senate , Dumycrats and Repukicans) raising taxes for their failure to get anything at all done the past 4 -8 years.

[Defoe]

"It must be observed that our revenues are raised almost wholly on imported goods." --Thomas Jefferson to Gouverneur Morris.

scoot, it's not 1790 anymore.

[Shu]

Stop giving money to countries that hate the US. Create a budget that does not include spending more than what is taken in and stick to it. Taxing the ultra rich is just a popular mantra, it won't bring in the desired revenue much less pay down the ridiculous amount of debt.

[scootrd]

And the rest of the package is punishing tariffs for doing business with the US--- still the largest market in the world--- as foreigners. If they move away, others will just step up and fill the void.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
 
  Just like the average libby..be so overcome with envy that they are driven to PUNISH all hard work and success..
You still haven't offered any excuse as to just why the big "tax & spend" libbies with Obama..have reneged on so much of their FAIR taxes..
 
 

The hypocrisy in these threads astounds me. The right wing extremist part of the republican party has become so schizophrenic it borders just plain silly.  Big tax and spend?? The right wing extremists argued all during the campaign Obama cut 760 billion out of medicare , and Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan were was going to put it back. (actually they weren't per Ryans proposed budget , but I don't want to side track) Now that the election has ended they now argue he will not put cuts to entitlements (mainly medicare ) on the table.  So which is it. They are so twisted around spinning in the wind they cannot even stay consistent with their own talking points  anymore.

I don't know what I said, but I stand by it, whatever it was
  - Mitt Romney.


Under Republican administration the Tax and spend policies  that affect our deficits have gone up greater than at any other times in our history and that's just a plain fact.,,,,  And Under Reagan who all Republicans hold up as messiah for fiscal conservatism.  Well you cannot rewrite history , he ended up disproportionally  raising taxes on middle class seven out of his eight years during his tenure. The national debt rose from 33 percent of GDP when he first assumed office (lowest since World War II) by the time he left It was  44% of GDP.  He called it his "greatest disappointment" of his presidency.

Through history republicans have fared no better of worse regarding Tax and spend abuses on Americas credit card.

I am so glad to have walked away from this new dysfunctional republican Party, and threads like this just reinforce I made the right decision. 





 

[joeinwv]

Tax those over $250k at 100% - it isn't enough money to close the deficit, much less pay off any debt.

Obama wants Clinton era tax rates, while spending double the Clinton era budget.

The president knows that taxing the rich does not improve the US economy or our financial situation. That is not why he wants to tax the rich. It is about doing what is "Right" and "Fair". In his opinion, it is the duty of the government to seize assets from the top and redistribute them to the bottom.

Fundamentally, he believes that a marxist / socialist society is the most "Just".

I view taxes as the .gov holding a gun to my head and taking my money. I have no option. I have no recourse. They have legalized theft.

[BUGEYE]

   If the obama supporters get their way on this issue..we can anticipate many of the wealthiest Americans to settle in places like Switzerland, Australia & Canada...and take their corporate headquarters with them..

that's right, and here's a list of most countries corp tax rates.  note that the USA is the highest and going higher.
http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/pages/corporate-tax-rates-table.aspx

[BUGEYE]

I saw on the news that hussein will be asking for $50 billion stimulus, I guess he didn't get all his supporters paid off with the trillion $ stimulus.

[boomerralph]

There is only one way to get out of this deficit situation:
1. Cut spending
2. Decrease the size of the government (goes hand in hand with #1)
3.  Everyone will have to pay more in taxes (lower, middle, and upper classes)
 
Yes, this will be unpopular, and I'm sure that I'll get flamed, but we are nearing bankrupcy as a country, and if (when) this happens, we will truely have open class warefare.

[ironglow]

"close loopholes".  What does that mean?  Tell me what loopholes we are talking about?  Maybe it is just retoric to make a deduction sound evil.  I would like to see the loopholes they are talking about before I get on the close the loophole bandwagon.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
 
  Same goes for the "reduced spending" which Obammy promises he will "look at" a year from now..providing congress will right now "pass the bill so they can find out what's in it".
  I suggest the Reps furnish a list of guaranteed loophole closing and the Dems furnish a list of guaranteed spending cuts..   That's not  too much to ask of these clowns who spend OUR hard earned taxes.

[ironglow]

The main problem is that most people don't seem to understand the enormity of the problem.  It isn't going to be fixed by adding additional tax on anyone.  This silly crap about taxing the rich is a side show to distract from what really is wrong.  It's the spending--stupid, or in other words, it's the stupid spending.
 
The rich are already paying the majority of taxes and raising taxes on them by any amount won't even make a noticeable dent in the deficit, let alone the debt.
 
If you think you can deter the job creators from leaving the country by threatening them with tariffs--think again.  How do you distinguish between a company that has left our shores and any other importer.  If you want to really screw up the economy, just start a trade war with all the counrties we trade with.  Actually, taxing business is a silly notion, because in reality, they just collect taxes; the consumers pay the taxes and the cost of living just goes up.
 
 

"Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison  You likely missed the operative word, which is "spared"..Jefferson was correct however, since he evidently meant that a figure of 10% to 15% of what could be "spared" would be reasonable.  Back then, there were no food stamps, free cell phones, "green" energy projects or a hundred thousad silly studies at a $ million each.

"Would it not be better to simplify the system of taxation rather than to spread it over such a variety of subjects and pass the money through so many new hands?" --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison
Passing money through so many hands which are involved in a bloated central government..that is exactly what is happening now!!
  The problem is..many of those hands are sticky..and skim some off at each station.

"The rich alone use imported articles, not so today as unions drive producers offshore. and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied.  ... Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." --Thomas Jefferson to Thaddeus Kosciusko  That was when...about 1783?  ...Before welfare, food stamps, Pell grants, WIC and long before we started paying the promiscous to breed indiscriminately.

"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison  ...And this quote was made at a time when there was NO income tax, NO school tax..taxes were levied on imported goods only..(read your quote #3, also your quote below).
  More than likely, Jefferson was considering a drastic (for the time) measure...to soak the very rich at perhaps 8% to 10%..

"It must be observed that our revenues are raised almost wholly on imported goods." --Thomas Jefferson to Gouverneur Morris. Remember the Tea Party?  These same people raised a ruckus over a very small rise in a tax on tea..

"The simplest system of taxation yet adopted is that of levying on the land and the laborer. Do you think they haven't already done that? But it would be better to levy the same sums on the produce of that labor when collected in the barn of the farmer; because then if through the badness of the year he made little, he would pay little. It would be better yet to levy it only on the surplus of this produce above his own wants. It would be better, too, to levy it, not in his hands, but in those of the purchaser; because though the farmer would in fact pay it, as the purchaser must deduct it from the original price of his produce yet the farmer would not be sensible that he paid it... What a comfort to the farmer to be allowed to supply his own wants before he should be liable to pay anything, and then to pay only out of his surplus." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison.  Here, Jefferson seems to be suggesting a sales tax..most of us already have plenty of those...  Thomas Jefferson was talking at a time when the ONLY taxes were taxes on imported goods, I feel very confident he did not envision a time when citizens would be taxed nearly as heavily as they now are..
  Today there is no need to ask for more, WE ARE ALREADY BEING TAXED TO DEATH; JUST STOP THE STUPID SPENDING!!!

[magooch]

In all of this, there is one thing that is clear and that is that the Dumycrats are not serious about fixing what ails our economic woes.  Nothing they have proposed would do a thing about cutting the deficit, nor the debt.  And it's not about fairness either.  The wealthy already pay multiple times more than any other income level in taxes.
The president has proven for the umpteenth time that he is a punk--a lying deceiving sniveling, jivea$$ punk.

[jhm]

     We at our home are fairly comfortable as far as finances go, and here is what we have done moved  most of our incoming producing income into cash or liquid assets reducing our income to a minimum for the next 4 yrs or so, If I can do this dont you think that any major business that is sitting on CASH they were hoping to invest, expand, improve their business havent thought of the same!  They will operate their business at a minimum when their taxes go up, and pass the increases to the consumer who will be the one paying the tax, take any fast food resturant whose major customers are the young who suported Osama they are the ones who will be paying the Corporate Tax Increase, just havent figured it out yet, and their Idol Osama wont give a rolling turd about them as he has already gotten their VOTE, so just sit back and watch this great country go down to the dogs.  Jim

[BUGEYE]

I know that the liberals don't have an answer, so maybe one of you conservatives can answer my question.

What exactly is the goal of liberals with increased taxes and continued spending???
do they have a time frame where they'll have solved all the worlds problems and lower our taxes and restore our freedoms.
I honestly don't know how they think...

[magooch]

It's simple; you just have to accept that the liberal idea about spending yourself rich and borrowing your way out of debt is a proven theorem.  The tax increases are an absolute necessity to get the cash to prime the pump.  Even liberals have figured out that there is a limit to how much money you can print.  Those nasty millionaires who make $200 thousand a year didn't build that anyway.  Then you've got to get the money in the hands of the starving masses (guvmint handouts) so they will be able to spend and get the whole thing rolling.  It works every time it's tried--right?