Author Topic: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low  (Read 13357 times)

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #270 on: January 06, 2013, 01:46:52 PM »
Quote
OK lets line up some of the Hypocrite tax cheats first.
John Kerry, Timmy Gietner, Hillary Clinton, Warren Buffet, Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi.  All Owe the nation or state collective millions and are calling for more taxes for you and me while skipping out on their own fair share.
. Sure,,,,,fine, no prob.  But appears in your lexicon that libbers that fudge on taxes are 'cheats', but so-called conservatives or corps that fudge and avoid taxes are just doing what's legal.. So why not have fair equitable laws and apply them equally....every entity paying their fair share.? And keep the predators from shifting burden on regular folks. In old days they use to shoot predators that endangered the community of farm....TM7
What is the difference between the Corperate people you want to lop the heads off of and these people?  Other than the Business people's job is to take the current laws and maximize profits.  While the list I gave you were extremely rich people that have bent the tax rules to breaking them and all think they are above the laws and it should not apply to them, especally Kerry, Pelosi, Barney Frank and Gietner.  And Buffet made the plea for more taxes on everyone else to get out of the over 500,000 he owed to the IRS for his private jet rental. 
I am simply showing if you want to start with someone why not grab the hypocrites first. 
But then again all you liberals and communists are willing to forgive the actions of people you think are on your side.
Clinton for Sexual harrasmnet and rape
Frank for Tax evasion and Swiss bank accounts as well as causing the housing collapse
Kerry for buying a boat made in Australia, shipping it here, registering it in another state all to avoid sales taxes, Property taxes, and registration fees.  Things he said the Millionaires and billionaires are not paying enough of, while married to a billionaire.

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #271 on: January 06, 2013, 01:49:49 PM »
I suppose a busness owner could fire every employee, then sell the product inventory and manufacturing equipment, then the building and grounds, and have an all time high profit and all time low wages - ONCE.




HOSTESS
Not quite.
The owners lost everything as the share holders are not going to see a return to the amount of the stock price.
So they bought at $35 a share and may see after everything is sold off and all the debts are paid $8 a share.
A loss of $27 a share is not a profit.  And really not an all time profit.

Offline Anna

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2263
  • Gender: Female
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #272 on: January 06, 2013, 02:07:51 PM »
They are all looking for cheap labor, the unions have become worthless . They are nothing anymore
other than a corrupt bunch of good ole boys .

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #273 on: January 07, 2013, 05:03:12 AM »
Mcwooduck...a tax cheat is a tax cheat, whether you label them libber or so-called conservative...there's no difference.
.
Now in a different vain, the 16th amemndment was never ratified, there is no statute produced that says you or I have to pay income tax on wages. Such a statute has never been produced.  Wages are not profits or gains_ _they're 'exchanges'.
.
 The Founder's set up a tax system that was based on profits and gains...this means a corporate or consumption styled tax_ _which is only fair in that citizens would only pay taxes in proportion to how much corporate transactions they have, instead of socialisticly illegally shifting-spreading taxes among all citizens on wage exchanges. Such a corpo-consumption would be your real flat tax.
.
.
..TM7
Ok lets go back to the founders tax system.
But unfortunatly there is more than enough tax law that says you have to pay income taxes on your wages.
And again the tax system is needed to do what government is set up for.  But we are being over taxed that cripples the economy.  Now I am all for reducing the tax rate to a flat 5 to 9% with a standard deduction of 4X the poverty level and eliminating all deductions.  Along with that I want a law passed that if congress over spends we cut their pay and retirment pay of all ex congress people and we cut the tax rate by the amount they have over spent. 
And again if payingtaxes and the richest needs to pay a little more should the people calling for more taxes not tbe the ones cheating?

Offline scootrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #274 on: January 07, 2013, 07:21:48 AM »
I suppose a busness owner could fire every employee, then sell the product inventory and manufacturing equipment, then the building and grounds, and have an all time high profit and all time low wages - ONCE.




HOSTESS
Not quite.
The owners lost everything as the share holders are not going to see a return to the amount of the stock price.
So they bought at $35 a share and may see after everything is sold off and all the debts are paid $8 a share.
A loss of $27 a share is not a profit.  And really not an all time profit.
and lets see who makes out like bandits.
Shareholders  -  nope
supply chain businesses -  nope
Surrounding economic businesses in local community- nope
Employees and their pensions  -  nope

Hostess Execs - BINGO,  They win pin the tail on the scumbag

A federal bankruptcy judge finalized the liquidation of Hostess Brands and approved a bonus plan for senior executives involved in the wind-down of the company which approved $1.75 million in bonuses.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline scootrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #275 on: January 07, 2013, 07:23:49 AM »
The only Constitutional Law on taxation is taxing gains and profits; not wage exchanges

TM7

Bingo!!!
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #276 on: January 07, 2013, 07:42:24 AM »
I suppose a busness owner could fire every employee, then sell the product inventory and manufacturing equipment, then the building and grounds, and have an all time high profit and all time low wages - ONCE.

In college it was offered that if all management were insured the fastest way to make a profit would be to fly them some where and crash the plane  ;)  It happened to a company here , they were almost bankrupt . It was determined there was no wrong doing . That was in the 80's and the company is still in business.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline scootrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #277 on: January 07, 2013, 09:33:48 AM »
I suppose a busness owner could fire every employee, then sell the product inventory and manufacturing equipment, then the building and grounds, and have an all time high profit and all time low wages - ONCE.

In college it was offered that if all management were insured the fastest way to make a profit would be to fly them some where and crash the plane  ;)  It happened to a company here , they were almost bankrupt . It was determined there was no wrong doing . That was in the 80's and the company is still in business.
.
ummm, ahhh-heh, mmmm_ _ _ever hear of 'peasants insurance'; more common than you might think.... ???
.
..TM7
Yep  Just ask WALL MART.
Usually taken out on top execs , Wall mart even collects of low wage employees.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline 45-70.gov

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7009
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #278 on: January 08, 2013, 05:05:43 AM »
i see  2 things


11 pages  of envious cry babys


11 pages  of  why  people  need to start a corporation
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline scootrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #279 on: January 08, 2013, 06:19:15 AM »
i see  2 things


11 pages  of envious cry babys


11 pages  of  why  people  need to start a corporation
I see 2 things  - 

11 pages of why de-regulation was the wrong course of action and allowed the corporate foxes to watch the hen house with no oversight and get away with tax evasion murder.

11 pages of why TRUE, non-regressive , equally applied,  and more fairly administered U.S Tax reform is required.

JMHO

Semper fi
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline Cuts Crooked

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3325
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #280 on: January 08, 2013, 02:23:33 PM »
The only Constitutional Law on taxation is taxing gains and profits; not wage exchanges

TM7

Bingo!!!

Please show us case law and court decisions wherein someone won based on this in federal court, to avoid paying income/payroll taxes.
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Cuts Crooked

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3325
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #281 on: January 09, 2013, 03:30:59 AM »
Well...that was a stupid waste of time. ::)

Not one single case with docket number, or a federal judge handing down a descision. Just out there propa media. :P
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Cuts Crooked

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3325
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #282 on: January 09, 2013, 03:34:25 AM »
Well...that was a stupid waste of time. ::)

Not one single case with docket number, or a federal judge handing down a descision. Just way out there propa media. :P

Now how about something real? A court case number, with real descisions from an actual judge instead of some cobbled together and invented trash media circus for the unwashed masses who are fool enough to fall for that stuff?

I'm guessing you aren't trying to get away with not paying your income taxes right now, are you? Yer jist a little smarter 'n dat!  ;)

Quote
"Hey Joe Bob...this here neat lil' Film sayz we don' halfta pay no danged axes! It's all laid out neat 'n orderly fer ya to see how it's dun!"

"Yeah Jim Bob.....Leroy tol 'me all 'bout dat stuff a few yearz ago. Said he wuz gonna follow dat advise 'n not pay hiz taxes! Wundeer he is theze dayz? Ain't seen him since them revenoo men wuz here lookin fer 'im. Oh well, you go 'head 'n give it a try Jim! Ah'll set back 'n see how it werks out fer ya!"
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #283 on: January 09, 2013, 03:49:19 AM »
I suppose a busness owner could fire every employee, then sell the product inventory and manufacturing equipment, then the building and grounds, and have an all time high profit and all time low wages - ONCE.

In college it was offered that if all management were insured the fastest way to make a profit would be to fly them some where and crash the plane  ;)  It happened to a company here , they were almost bankrupt . It was determined there was no wrong doing . That was in the 80's and the company is still in business.
.
ummm, ahhh-heh, mmmm_ _ _ever hear of 'peasants insurance'; more common than you might think.... ???
.
..TM7
What does Pesant Insurance have to do with corperate profits?  I have pesant insurance on me at my company.  If I die in a car wreck on the California Freeways then the company will take the policy they have for 5X my salary and give it to my loved ones.  When My mother died suddenly it was pesant insurance that made it possibel for my father to burry her.  Not sure where you are going with this, but pesant insurance can come in many forms and not all are plots for a bad detective TV movie where the owncers of a company about to fail sabotage a plane filled with ecutives so they save the company. 

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #284 on: January 09, 2013, 03:57:27 AM »
Not all insurance pay offs go to the family , often the company uses the money to find a replacement or offset the profit they lost by you no longer working . In some cases it is used by the company to buy back stock the employee owned .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline 45-70.gov

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7009
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #285 on: January 09, 2013, 05:23:11 AM »
i see  2 things


11 pages  of envious cry babys


11 pages  of  why  people  need to start a corporation
I see 2 things  - 

11 pages of why de-regulation was the wrong course of action and allowed the corporate foxes to watch the hen house with no oversight and get away with tax evasion murder.

11 pages of why TRUE, non-regressive , equally applied,  and more fairly administered U.S Tax reform is required.

JMHO

Semper fi


de-regulation  is ''the FOX watching the hen house''
in the  case where ''the fox owns the hen house''.....who else had a say so in who watched it


oh  yes..i forgot....ALL wealth must be re-distributed EQUALLY
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Empty Quiver

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2847
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #286 on: January 09, 2013, 06:51:46 AM »
Our current tax code has much more to do with social engineering and much less to do with financing the country. It is both the carrot and stick that makes happen what our so called leaders want to happen.
 
Want a new wind turbine? Tax coal fired power plants, and give the receipts to a wind farm operator. Want to stop smoking among the young? Tax cigarettes at a rate that makes them nearly unobtainable to the underemployed. Want to get the housing industry jump started? New home owner tax credits. Can we all agree that this seems to be the plan? It is certainly what has been done. I have plenty of experience with the two latter examples and they worked as planned. The first is only speculation on my part, but the thousands of turbines I pass every week lead me to believe that project has taken off just fine as well.
 
So if you wanted to keep corporations in the U.S. what would you propose a government should do as far as  tax code is concerned? How would you go about driving an industry off shore if again taxes were the tool you chose to wield? 
 
If you are able to see the former why can you not see the latter?
 
Does it really matter who pays the freight and were the payment is made from? Are evil corporations able to print money? Do they raise all tax payments from sales? Price to bring a product to market includes the tax liability. How would you go about raising the cash to pay taxes if you were a business owner? Sell your wifes jewelry, pawn your kids bicycle, sell the boat and motorhome? Sure, that will work once, how about next year?
 
Lay off a few less productive employees, like Sid who having been with the company 35 years is now sweeping floors and emptying waste cans. Sid is liked by the entire staff and it is heartening to know some day you might just have Sids position. Well guess what, every department has a few spare moments to empty the trash, and a broom is available to clean your own wok station, and Sid can go pound sand. The tax man cometh. Now the third year gets to be a problem now doesn't it?
 
The toys are sold, Sid is off pounding sand somewhere, and the tax man has assured you he will be returning again next year. What is left to do I ask? Raise prices (will the competition allow that)?  Abandon the facility and move production off shore (thereby avoiding the tax burden and possibly lowering wages as well)?
 
Winchester has moved assembly to Portugal. Red wing shoes are easily double the price I once paid, especially for the U.S. built product. Filson clothing is off the hook price wise and quality too, but damn, $370 for a simple wool coat? They have a few foriegn made clothes these days too. These companies have chosen to stay in business, how many have gone tits up?
 
A goodly half of my check is sent to some government entity at the end of the day. I don't think the government is able to spend my money as wisely as I can. Maybe some are too damn dumb to spend their money "properly" I am not one of those. I want my money back. Let me decide if Apple is making too much profit for their product. I can choose for myself if GM should still be making autos. Apple deserves to be making large profits GM as well if they start building a product that is worth the price charged. 
 
Ask yourself this. Who should be blamed, the professional athlete asking for millions a year for throwing a baseball. The owner for writing the check? Or the athlete for cashing it?
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #287 on: January 09, 2013, 01:12:05 PM »
Not all insurance pay offs go to the family , often the company uses the money to find a replacement or offset the profit they lost by you no longer working . In some cases it is used by the company to buy back stock the employee owned .
Oh I am sure that the company has me insured for more than 5X my salary so they can use some of it to hire a headhunter to replace me, so what it is the companies money and they can do with it what they want.  I am greatful they are offering me the life insurance. 

Offline scootrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #288 on: January 10, 2013, 05:13:00 AM »
TM , GOOD START ,

I would also like to add. Stop providing largess subsidies to big guys who do not need them , and little guys who never received  them. Providing subsidies to select few big boys who just bank 'em also inhibits growth for other companies trying to compete in same sector space and creates additional shortfalls in taxes that middle class has to pick up.



"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #289 on: January 10, 2013, 09:56:59 AM »
EQ:
Quote
So if you wanted to keep corporations in the U.S. what would you propose a government should do as far as  tax code is concerned? How would you go about driving an industry off shore if again taxes were the tool you chose to wield? 
 
....stop offshore tax avoidance schemes How do you have a international sales organization with out having forgien bank accounts? 
....excise tax foreign produced goods All this does is raise prices it does not change the percentage of onshore or off shore products.
....promote more production capitalism and far less finance capitalism We need to curb the power of the EPA that is driving companies offshore.
....continue or enhance domestically produced tax incentives, but not allow escape from taxes Lower all tax rates and jobs will come back here. 
....tax capital gains at normal rate to promote re-investment So I paid taxes on my pay, and I invested or saved my money and now you want to tax what I make on money that was already taxed?
....otherwise create a tax scenario that promotes domestic production, less offshoring, and less capital hoarding Lower tax rates dramaticly and cut out special interest deductions that only do social programing and design. 
.
 Current tax and politial policies promote offshoring, tax avoidance, and capital hoarding (right at the point that it is better to save $ than invest it you are going to have capital hording / Saving or buying solid assets)...this needs to be cleaned up and a level playing field maintained, with far less tax shifting to the middle class consumers(taxes are builtinto prices and the higher the taxes on items the middle class wants or needs the higher the prices) . Results of deregulation creating de facto tax avoidance(the regulatins and price fiing are what is causing the problems.  How many people want a Large SUV, how many can afford one with 7,000 to 10,000 gas guzzler tax built into it?  If a suburban were 30K rathen than 40K I would beable to drive one. have proven they only promote offshoring and disadvantages to domestic production for the last 40 years (No taxes, over taxing, and Regulations by unellected agencies are what is driving manufacturing off shore)    Also interesting that the more that we drive offshore the more Diane Feinstiens Husband makes as being one of a few Importers from China.  Political coruption? 
.
..TM7..

Offline Cuts Crooked

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3325
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #290 on: January 11, 2013, 03:44:24 AM »

.
Aaron Russo was a well know maintsream film producer...He was best known for producing such movies as Trading Places, Wise Guys, and  The Rose among others. Exercizing his libertarian rights he produced Freedom to Fascism, a Cannes film festival winning documentary.
 

 
Here's a few law cases you requested:
 


I'll send you some cookies in prison.........if you really intend to follow the advise of a film maker who does fiction. .....and if you really intend to use those supposed case laws above. (hint: dig deeper...you will find they didn't win on appeal, most ended up cutting deals)
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Cuts Crooked

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3325
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #291 on: January 12, 2013, 08:30:53 AM »
And no reason to send cookies to me, I have generously paid income taxes for years, in spite of the dubious basis for the program which is contrary to Founders and Constitution.
.
.
..TM7

Thank you, I rest my case! I knew you really weren't THAT stupid.
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #292 on: January 12, 2013, 08:43:42 AM »
TM7,
So if we do not have to pay taxes on our wages then why do the multimillionairs not pay them self $50,000 an hour and call it wages rather than profit and eliminate paying millions a year in taxes?
Clearly Warren Buffet that complains that he pays less (actually pays about 50X more in total dollars) in percentage than his secratary could be paying himself a wage and pay nothing in taxes. 
My only question to you is if you paid taxes and thought that corperations needed to pay more, why not just pay more?
Why did you take the deductions?
Why not write a check now for the amount you underpaid plus interest to the government?
By your writtings it must be simply sitting in a mattress, as hard assests like gold and silver, or as T bills?  You vilify anyone that owns corperations so we know that none of your money can be in a Pension fund, 401K, annuity, Life insuirance, Mutual fund, savings account, or as stocks.
As a holder of a pension fund, mutual fund, 401K, bonds, stocks, life insurance, or annuity all make you an owner of a corperation as those funds are invested.
If you hold T- Bills or Government bonds  just send them back to the government and forgive their debt and allow them to spend more rather than sending you your principal and interest. 

Offline Empty Quiver

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2847
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #293 on: January 12, 2013, 09:17:17 AM »
EQ:
Quote
So if you wanted to keep corporations in the U.S. what would you propose a government should do as far as  tax code is concerned? How would you go about driving an industry off shore if again taxes were the tool you chose to wield? 
 
....stop offshore tax avoidance schemes
....excise tax foreign produced goods
....promote more production capitalism and far less finance capitalism
....continue or enhance domestically produced tax incentives, but not allow escape from taxes
....tax capital gains at normal rate to promote re-investment
....otherwise create a tax scenario that promotes domestic production, less offshoring, and less capital hoarding
.
 Current tax and politial policies promote offshoring, tax avoidance, and capital hoarding...this needs to be cleaned up and a level playing field maintained, with far less tax shifting to the middle class consumers. Results of deregulation creating de facto tax avoidance have proven they only promote offshoring and disadvantages to domestic production for the last 40 years
.
..TM7..
Would there be some sort of provision to imprison corporate owners so they cannot move to another country to avoid taxation? As far as I can tell planes leave this country every few minutes, the expertice is in the mind.
 
Secondly the tax code is once again, a thing of social engineering. Fairness is not part of the income tax code, if it were I would pay the exact same percentage of my income as does Warren Buffet.  I have no delusions that fairness is part of the equation or will ever be.
 
Life is not now nor has it ever been fair. Is it fair that humans eat cows? Is it fair that goats eat tree bark? Is it fair that lions attack the poor innocent baby gazelles? Is it fair one of the kids is not as smart or talented or good looking or pleasant as the others? None of the animals are as equal as the other animals.
 
I'm pretty tore up about the fact I'm smart enough to run this computer, yet I can't hit a 90mph baseball. It simply is not fair. When can we address the disparity? I can hit a 50 mph fastball danged well, could I ( should I ) be paid at 50% of what Sammy Sosa was bringing down? My daughters are useless at baseball what does MLB owe them?
 
I'm tired of untalented crybaby's wanting a free ride. A chimp eats your face off, suffer from a birth defect, dad set you on fire, you have a good reason to hope for compassion from society. Lazy bastage drug down by the man, F - you and everyone who comiserates with you, you deserve modern society's contempt. How did your ancestors possibly make it? My God they should have been died out generations ago to hear this current crop blubber.
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline Empty Quiver

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2847
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #294 on: January 12, 2013, 10:29:17 AM »
I can see where big goverment wants big corporations. What is easier to control a single elephant or thousands of mice?
 
Big corporations are about making money, period. If they could sell one pencil a year for one billion dollars they would happily do so, and spend 363 days trying to figure out how to sell one more and lay off the pencil maker after he got the two finished. a corporation has no soul and desires none.
 
This government is about getting elected, staying elected and retaining all the power bestowed on an elected official.
 
We are at a point where the way to stay in power is by paying the electorate. Government has no money that it has not taken from the citizenry.
 
You want to kill the host I want to kill the parasite, the goal is much the same, freeing the public from it's lazy ass ruling class elites. With out big government who would hand out the largess to corporations? With out the huge corps where would government extract the blood and money to keep the rabble happy?
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #295 on: January 14, 2013, 05:29:59 PM »
TM7,
You are confusing a few things.
Communism is where the state picks products to be produced and the amount of those products to be supplied and the state owns all elements of production.  The factory, the equipment and the labor are all owned by the government and quotas of production are set based on a perceived need.
Fascism is where the government will mandate the amount of profit that can be made and direct what products are illegal to make.  The government will pick winners and losers in the market by allocating resources to them. And will nationalize an industry as it sees fit, do to excessive profits or for the good of the state.  In nationalizing the companies they are stealing investments, equipment, and intellectual property of the owners of the company without recourse.  Always pointing the finger at some other cause or person for their misery or the failure of their policies.   
Capitalism is a free market allowing the most effective use of natural resources, capital, labor and creates new products and innovation.    Free markets will pick winners and losers based on the product, the price, the competition, and the substitute goods.
I think you are correct and we do have more and more fascist leanings in our economy.  But we disagree on the cause.  You think it is based on corporations and I think it is based on an over reaching and over intrusive government.  We have a mix of communism as well in our transfer of wealth where we need a larger government to take care of the ever growing amount of poor caused by massive taxes and regulations.
We have a president that wants to raise taxes, more and more to control you, he uses massive tax dollars to fund companies for products that were not viable in the free market and made many of his donors wealthy with tax dollars.  He used donor rolls to reward dealerships that supported him and punished dealerships that opposed him when he temporally took over GM.    We have multiple un elected government agencies that are making regulations that act as laws and levy taxes called fees and fines.  We have a tax code that punishes you if you do not agree with the social engineering done by congress.  This same tax code makes people do things that are not made for their business but to avoid paying taxes and as long as doing the thing costs less than the tax they save they will do this.  These things are often a payoff to some industry or company in a transfer of wealth.   If this does not sound like fascism I am not sure what does.
Now I do not understand how you can say that corporations are bad and that they are all part of an evil plot, and in the same posting say you were a corporation but when I jokingly say you need to give up your ill-gotten gains and pay more in taxes and return your profits.
You remind me of a friend of mine that was all for Obama Care and was shouting about making a profits in the health of others.  I then asked if he was going to sell his equipment at his costs.  He looked at me and said “No way, my stuff is not health care”.  I pointed out that he sold boilers and water heaters and they were used for the health of people providing heat and hot water to clean and sterilize.  He was all for taking profits from someone else but then justified how his equipment did not qualify.  I also asked at what point should the profit train stop or start back up?   Should Doctors work for free?  Should the research teams not be paid?  He did not have an answer as to who should and should not make any money on their skills or equipment.    We also talked about the limit of payment for doctors and how it would drive the best out of the industry to make more in another industry.  Clearly you fall in this same group of people that think the rules should apply to anyone but them.  Sounds like congress exempting themselves from laws they write for the rest of us.

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #296 on: January 15, 2013, 05:06:27 AM »
What we have is Facism or Nazism.  Both allow private corporations, but one party rule government, who can tell the corporations what to do, or reward them for supporting the party with government contracts.  The dems are in the process of splitting the republicans by demonising conservatives with Christian values.  Demonising pro lifers, demonising the TRUE TEA partiers, calling them right wing extremists, when they are nothing but old fashioned Americans. 
 
Government hasn't used monopoly laws since breaking up AT&T.  They could break up some of the big oil companies.  There are also only a handful of aircraft manufacturers.  Two biggest are Boeing and Lockheed.  Boeing bought out a few and so did Lockheed.  There was once Consolidated, North American Aviation, Curtis, McDonald-Douglas, which was one of the first mergers of aircraft companies.  We had all these different aircraft companies making all kinds of planes in WWII.  Government bought everything everyone of them made due to the war.  Mergers started after the war till we ended up with two main players.  It is easy for them to support one party or the other with very little competition.  GE is the largest manufacturing corporation in the world.  They make generators, windmills and solar panels as well as appliances and lights.  They also make jet engines.  They gave a lot of money to Obama's campaign to get solar and wind power pushed so they could make sales. 

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #297 on: January 15, 2013, 06:02:24 AM »
TM7,
We seem to see the same or similar problems with the system,
You see that the corperations controling the government as a problem and want to make government bigger and corporations smaller
I see that a large government and large corporations go hand in hand and the larger government the larger the corporations.  The large government that is left leaning is only going to drive industry out of the country with rules and regulations, fees and fines.  There is a problem when you pay govenment as much to build a new building as you do for the materials to build the building.
If we cut government and cut the welfare state then private industry can flurrish and the seeking of profits will generate new innovations and industries.  Look what happened in the 80's when we deregulated and lowered taxes, we ended up with computers, cell phones, cheap air fare, and a lot of disposable income that got spent making more income for others.  We need to go back to a small government that does not need more poor people to grow.  It needs More rich and middle class people to grow and you can not have someone being paid middle class salaries by a poor person.   

Offline ChungDoQuan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1417
  • Eisenhower Conservative
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #298 on: January 16, 2013, 01:50:24 PM »
And as long as the middle class has to kowtow to the rich just to stay the middle class, they will be slaves. Fairly well-off slaves, but slaves nevertheless. You want a REAL free market economy? Let the federal government COMPETE with the corporations--- let them go toe to toe with industry and service as a not for profit provider and let the big money compete for real, rather than letting them buy up their competition and then set their own prices.
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low
« Reply #299 on: January 17, 2013, 03:23:45 AM »
let the govt. compete with the corps. With all due respect that is about the most asine thing we could do . It's like letting the fox guard the hen house . What would keep the govt. from passing laws to make more money ? Why in the he-- would you want the govt. who's job it is to protect the consumer / citizen being part of the industry ? It goes aginst all common sense .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !