Author Topic: corporate profits all time high, wages all time low (Read 13391 times)

45-70.gov · « **Reply #30 on:** December 01, 2012, 05:41:11 AM »

it is so easy to be generous with other peoples money

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #31 on:** December 01, 2012, 06:01:18 AM »

Oh, and speaking of natural gas. Here is the tax structure:

Drilling company sells gas to a cross country transmission company. Drilling company is taxed on it's profits by the feds, state, and local governments where the gas is found.

Cross country pipeline transmission company pays taxes on its profits to fed, state, and local governments where it sells the gas along the way.

Distribution company buys gas from the transmission company, then they pay taxes on their profits when they sell this to the homeowners and industries along their routes to the fed, state, and local governments.

Net result, half the price you pay for natural gas to your home is tax. Corporations pay 35% tax on their profits. They can get tax write offs if they donate to charities or buy new equipment. They also get tax write offs for providing health care for their employees. This I think is changing, since they are now FORCED to provide health care with GOVERNMENT MANDATED health care services like abortions even though that was once unconstitutional for religious reasons. So, if they are FORCED to provide health care with NO tax write offs, then why bother, just put everyone on 30 hour work week.

Lets vote for it to see what is in it, then blame the big bad corporations and NOT the big bad government.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #32 on:** December 01, 2012, 01:29:44 PM »

Mr. Dude

you forgot something

they also give a lot of people jobs....another by-product of greed

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #33 on:** December 01, 2012, 03:55:27 PM »

GuzziJohn,
In a normal business cycle if companies are seeing high profits it encourages inovation and new entries into that market. New entries into that market drive up wages to get the best workers.
What stops new companies from starting are the excessive taxes, the endless regulations, and the inabliity to build due to enviromental punnishing laws.
The current business sindrome promotes monopolies, driving down wages and driving up prices.
Now on the other side of this Guzzi you should be happy with record profits as that is what is taxed and in corperate situations it is double taxed. once as profit and again as income.
liberals keep saying things that sound good but only keep the rich rich and the poor poor.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #34 on:** December 02, 2012, 02:58:27 AM »

mcwoodduck, your post is greek to a liberal....

45-70.gov · « **Reply #35 on:** December 02, 2012, 03:17:12 AM »

know matter what the government does

the smart will keep getting RICHER
and to stupid will keep getting POORER

not rich richer and poor poorer

Anna · « **Reply #36 on:** December 02, 2012, 05:50:51 AM »

No one thinks that cooperations are only here to pay taxes. And we all know they have share holders that depend on profit margins. All that is being said here is how about a little self governing ?
A lot of complaining about unions has been said here, but it was these sort of practices by corporations that originally caused those unions to form in the first place.
And look what we have now! Massive government intervention who takes the side of the unions.
Hundreds of government satellites who operate more like a Gestapo than someone there to help.
We reap what we sow, and our elections are now reflecting those past mistakes with open cheating
and votes that don't count like with our milllitary overseas. We took the mussel off our banks and
lawyers and allowed them to run wild, making the common man pay dearly for an economy he
himself did not create.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #37 on:** December 02, 2012, 05:57:45 AM »

what has profit your boss makes have to do with what you are worth to him??

you don't like him or are envious of him...
..find some else that thinks your worth more than he thinks your worth
sorry.....you can't...or won't

what is the difference between greed and ambition ?

i pondered that question for many years....and the difference is not in the ambitious or the greegy

the difference is the amount of ENVY that is felt by the observer

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #38 on:** December 02, 2012, 08:52:55 AM »

You do realize that these evil corporations raise the revenue to pay taxes by simply raising the cost of the products they sell don't you? In the end they care not what the taxes are as they are simply passed on to the consumer. Exports will suffer as the products become less competitive financially. For those unconcerned about export it is simple math 20% rise in tax obligations results in a 25% rise in price (they will demand a return on the cost of product therefore an increase above and beyond the cost to them.

So what I'm getting to is this. The entire tax structure needs to change. If the reason for taxes is to simply run the business of government the tax policy could be simplified exponentially. Sadly it is not, it is a means of social engineering plain and simple. Until that is addressed we are wasting band width.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #39 on:** December 02, 2012, 09:11:22 AM »

i still don't understand the point the original poster was trying to make

other than peoples jobs may be more secure than some people say

that is what i get from the O P

BUGEYE · « **Reply #40 on:** December 02, 2012, 09:35:38 AM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on December 02, 2012, 09:11:22 AM

i still don't understand the point the original poster was trying to make

other than peoples jobs may be more secure than some people say

that is what i get from the O P

I think guzzi is saying that when a company makes a profit, they should dole out most of it to the IRS and the rest to the employees. they forget about upgrading equipment, adding capacity so they can hire more workers and least of all THE SHAREHOLDERS. I guess it's a jealousy thing because they were to lazy to make enough money to invest.

Anna · « **Reply #41 on:** December 02, 2012, 12:22:08 PM »

Everyone is leaving out the brown noser factor, it eventually catches up with these people but they
can do a lot of damage in the mean time. Damage that includes company / employee relations as to
the truth of what's really going on in productivity. Like when a dedicated worker turns in thier service
or work report and someone else's name ends up on it.The company's are to lazy to go find out who
really did do the work. We here in America have all ran into this, and it can ruin the morale of any
work force real fast.

jhm · « **Reply #42 on:** December 02, 2012, 02:43:20 PM »

Does anyone know if the picture TM posted was one of him? Just wondering. Jim

billy_56081 · « **Reply #43 on:** December 02, 2012, 04:22:49 PM »

Glad to hear this, if you aint happy with how much they are paying you go work elsewhere. just remember this coporation is their property not yours. i see the parasite mentality is still strong in America.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #44 on:** December 03, 2012, 01:53:27 AM »

Quote from: Anna on November 30, 2012, 01:23:47 PM

Quote from: clum sum on November 30, 2012, 07:23:23 AM
Lets blame it on Unions.

No lets blame it on the illegals, it is them who are holding down the wages.

Not really 100% true , My experince was as long as wealfare is being given out and under table or illegal income is aval. there will be a shortage of workers . I will only speak for my industry , we could not get enough workers before 2007 . We had as many as 40 hispanic workers on payroll at one time ( note all were checked thru. SS and approved for work only to find out later that most had irregularties in their paper work ) . They worked for the same wage as any other people . They would not work for less. The same is still true.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #45 on:** December 03, 2012, 01:57:49 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on December 03, 2012, 01:47:02 AM

Quote from: Empty Quiver on December 02, 2012, 08:52:55 AM
You do realize that these evil corporations raise the revenue to pay taxes by simply raising the cost of the products they sell don't you? In the end they care not what the taxes are as they are simply passed on to the consumer. Exports will suffer as the products become less competitive financially. For those unconcerned about export it is simple math 20% rise in tax obligations results in a 25% rise in price (they will demand a return on the cost of product therefore an increase above and beyond the cost to them.

So what I'm getting to is this. The entire tax structure needs to change. If the reason for taxes is to simply run the business of government the tax policy could be simplified exponentially. Sadly it is not, it is a means of social engineering plain and simple. Until that is addressed we are wasting band width.
.
You do realize:
....corps can only raise prices according to what the market will bear and according to competiton; i.e. if its not a monopoly..
....only those buying a corps product or services are paying its taxes; not shifted to the entire middle class
.....you and I have the choice whether we buy those products or services
....admist highest corp profits and highest CEO incomes,,,corps % tax share is lowest ever, but middle class is going backwards.
.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.
Louis D. Brandeis
.
.
...TM7

We should get rid of all corp. taxes as they are all passed on to the consumer ! Consider if all taxes were paid by the citizens then none would be hidden and voters would have a better idea of where their monies were being used or wasted. How many know they pay taxes on sporting goods or tires before they pay sales tax on the same products ?

ChungDoQuan · « **Reply #46 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:19:11 AM »

What, because big corporations, being so benevolent and all, will lower their prices if they get more tax breaks, like they've done for the past twelve years?

guzzijohn · « **Reply #47 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:41:42 AM »

What the OP is trying to say is that conservatives keep saying that when the corporations make money they in turn make more and better paying jobs. Well...it appears that the corporations are making money just fine but where are the jobs and the pay?
GuzziJohn

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #48 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:49:08 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on December 03, 2012, 01:57:49 AM

EO incomes,,,corps % tax share is lowest ever, but middle class is going backwards.
.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.
Louis D. Brandeis
.
.
...TM7

Whoops! I see you found a quote from someone who makes the same mistake most liberals do....THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY IT'S A REPUBLIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #49 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:35:03 AM »

The falacy of this debate is we have those who live the life of a cooporate leader be it a mega company or just a small business that is incoporated , read deal with the problems and realities of business everyday or those who are educators that deal in the abstract and theory. Of course there are many with no experince taking one side or the other but they are little more than static. What is happening is some in govt. have promised to take care of speical intrest groups etc and now its comming up short. The best fix is to force business to take over the burden . Second is for years we have paid in the form od aid to keep other countries from attacking us and our intrest around the world. Now over seas as has been the case at home those on the dole want more.
It's one thing to tax business enough to pay for fair regulation it is not good to strip profit from business to cover poorly thought out and run programs.
The more a company pays out in wages the more employees pay the govt. in taxes

so when a govt. is in trouble it is easy to see how they could be hostile to corp's and encourage unrest from workers.
Workers should be wise enough to look past their own greed and see what happens when profit is no longer allowed or even free enterprise encouraged ? But most won't and the educators won't as they want revolution in the market. If for no other reason to test their theory .
So all things considered would it be best to let those who know business to see us thru a bad time or to try methods that have failed in other countries in the past ?

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #50 on:** December 03, 2012, 04:40:28 AM »

GE,who's CEO is a big Obama supporter, has shut down factories in the US and moved them overseas. Jobs are there, but the free trade agreements are not FAIR trade agreements. If the products sold in the US required the companies to have a minimum of 40 hr work week laws, child labor laws, and provided social security, and medical benefits to their foreign workers, then maybe they might come home and provide these jobs here, thus relieving the health care problem and the tax revenue problem.

We need a flat tax on all income whether earned income, or income from investments.

We need to keep mortgage, dependents, health care costs, and charitable contributions deductable, but simple.

Tax write offs for corporations should be for jobs created, American made equipment purchases, charitable contributions, health care provided to employees.

No government expense for farmers NOT to grow crops, but allow them to grow, and buy excess with the same money for stockpiling food for bad years, emergencies, etc.

No government support for the arts, we really can't afford it.

No government support for welfare over a certain length of time for able bodied people. No child supports over two children.

Eliminate FEMA, turn this over to the national guard. The guard has all the equipment and training necessary for emergencies. People who loose homes, should be scattered to nearby towns not affected and help the families get relocated either temporary or permanent, not in government ran trailer parks that sit idle.

Military bases in friendly foreign bases should be closed, like Germany, and troops brought home and placed on the southern border to help keep illegals out.

Manufacturers who make things in America shouldn't either be taxed or have low taxes because they provide jobs here.

I don't see why any of this would be so hard.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #51 on:** December 03, 2012, 05:35:35 AM »

Quote from: guzzijohn on December 03, 2012, 02:41:42 AM

What the OP is trying to say is that conservatives keep saying that when the corporations make money they in turn make more and better paying jobs. Well...it appears that the corporations are making money just fine but where are the jobs and the pay?
GuzziJohn

is that what you and the OP do with your corperations??

45-70.gov · « **Reply #52 on:** December 03, 2012, 05:39:42 AM »

Quote from: ChungDoQuan on December 03, 2012, 02:19:11 AM

What, because big corporations, being so benevolent and all, will lower their prices if they get more tax breaks, like they've done for the past twelve years?

they didn't get to be big corperations because they are stupid
they will make wise business decisions

they will charge what the market will bear

WHY WOULD THEY DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT??

WHAT IS YOUR POINT??

with your low prices you should be able to take their business
quicker than a mexican can steel a job

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #53 on:** December 03, 2012, 05:48:45 AM »

The standard of living in America was higher than England at the begining of our country. Ownership of private property and means of production created the wealth. Also, 90% of Americans lived on farms, not in the cities. Even as late as 1900 80% of Americans lived on farms. By 1940, only 40% lived on farms. Expanded mass production in the early 1900's up to and through the 1960's destroyed the small farms. Jefferson wanted a nation of farmers. He said he didn't want us to have big corrupt dirty cities like Europe. That is one reason he made the Louisiana Purchase.

I know that both Dems and GOP has done a lot of things wrong. However what do we do except start over at the local level.

For instance:

I don't believe in gun control, Republicans primarily do not either.
I don't believe in abortion, Republicans primarily do not either. No matter how you look at it, from evolutionary point of view or religious, it is a unique human life, not a part of the mother's body. It is actually like a parasite in the mother until born, because the baby needs her for at least 5 months.
I don't believe in they way the free trade agreements were worked out, both parties at fault here.
I believe we should close the southern border, Republicans primarily give lip service to this.
I believe in less government in our private lives, I may rub some the wrong way here, but maybe we should legalise some drugs like pot and tax it.
I don't believe in gay marriage, but am willing to allow for "civil unions". Marriage is a religious concept by all religions of the world between a man and woman.
I believe we should go back to the gold standard, libertarian view.

I believe if some corporations are too big to fail, then they should be broken up into smaller corporations. Like the big banks, or big oil companies, or even the big pharmacutical companies. This is what monopoly laws are for. This would allow many who manage their finances to stay in business and not hurt so many people when one big one goes down. Also keeps the government from having to bail them out. Back in the early 70's congress was considering breaking up GM into GM and Cheverolet. Cheverolet was half of GM's business, but GM had 75% of the American car market. Ford had about 13% and Chrysler had about 8% with American Motors, and VW and some foreign imports the rest. Maybe this should have been done to make companies more competitive.

Microsoft was considered for breakup because of their 90% monopoly of the computer software business. One reason they didn't is because every country in the world had to use MS systems to operate their networks, computers, and internet. CIA didn't want them broken up, because it was easier to check on, shut down, and use software viruses against potential enemies. Is this right? Their only real competitor was Apple, and they only have a nich market.

dwalk · « **Reply #54 on:** December 03, 2012, 06:04:57 AM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on December 01, 2012, 05:17:09 AM

Here is something you libs haven't considered. You hire someone, you have to pay half the social security tax. You have to provide health care. You have to pay part of his UNEMPLOYMENT benefits, if he gets laid off. Now, with the economy just barely sputtering along, everyone is afraid to hire anyone right now. THEY DON'T KNOW HOW THE OBAMACARE TAXES ARE GOING TO PAN OUT, for one thing. Also, they don't know how much additional tax they are going to pay because Obama wants to tax the rich more. Lots of unanswered questions if running a business. I work with three SMALL business contractors installing pipelines. They don't want to hire because of these reasons. They need to hire one or two here or there, but it also EASIER TO HIRE A GREENCARD than an American, because of less benefits. So, two of them have hired Hispanics, so they can lay them off when they are not needed.

You liberals just have never ran a business and really don't know. Bite the hand that feeds most Americans and pays the most taxes to the Feds.

If everyone worked for the government or got government benefits. Where would they get their money to operate? Ahh, Soviet Union?

America produced the richest, most powerful nation in history with the capitalist system. Sure there were problems along the way, but by the 1950's most were worked out. When the feds started meddling in everything, becoming the nannie state, giving money to the poor without a commitment from them to get out of poverty, etc, that is when we started having problems. Check your history.
Rockafella got rich providing cheap kerosene for lighting.
Ford got rich providing cheap cars for people.
It wasn't their fault, but they figured out how to provide cheap goods and services so MOST people could afford them. Yes, they got rich, but, don't you think the hard work and good ideas should be rewarded.

Jobs and Gates got rich providing computers and software at low prices so everyone could afford one.

Where would we be without these thinkers, inovators, inventers? Edison stayed awake for about 18 hours a day working on inventions.

Singer, Colt, Browing, McCormick, Whitney, all invented things and got rich from their inventions. If you do that today, you are evil, and took money from the poor.

Liberals don't understand, GROW the economy, EVERYONE's boat rises with the tide. The economy isn't a finite resource like liberals, socialists, and communists think. If one thing gets in short supply, in a capitalist economy, a substitue will be found.

For instance, I work in the natural gas industry. Right now we have plenty of natural gas because of fracking. However we can produce all the residential natural gas in America from cow manure from dairy farms and feed stalls. This would cost about twice as much, but it will be doable WHEN we need to do it. We also have a 30,000 year supply of natural gas in hydrates off shore in the Gulf and the Alantic seaboard. It too is not yet cost effective, but it will be doable WHEN we need it. I see this as the same with solar, wind, etc. Coal is cheap, why not use it right now instead of shutting down the coal plants. Cheap abundant energy will bring industry back to America, especially high energy use companies. Obama doesn't want this. He has this pie in the sky utopian idea of renewable energy, even though oil and natural gas are still being made in nature at the bottom of the ocean. In his book, he wants gasoline to be the same price Europeans pay for theirs. He wants coal plants to be shut down. This will come in time when the price of conventional fuel goes high enough for the alternatives. Right now isn't the time. He wants government to FORCE it to be. Why? Capitalism will find a way, it will find alternatives. Copper is high, so no new phone cables are copper wires. So, they are installing fiber optic cables which are made from glass (sand) which is far more abundant. Plastic water piping is also cheaper than copper now. Copper can therefore be saved and used for wiring.

You guys need some economic courses, from a conservative economist to get balanced.

^^^^this...probably...is the most sensible post in this thread.

something i find disturbing is the fact that oil, lead, mercury, coal, natural gas and other elements, are a part of our NATURAL environment and we HAVE founds ways to deal safely and effectively with them, so why not continue use and development at the same time as 'alternative' energy sources?

i was in the energy distribution business (gas and electric) before i retired. when i first became involved, the cost of electric energy was very affordable...now...skyrocketing..natural gas...the same..gasoline/diesel...wow!

just the increase in cost for those things is devastating to many in this economy...

if..IF...by some "Miracle"...gasoline/diesel were to drop back to $1.00 per gallon...this economy would skyrocket...OIL is what drives this economy...predominately diesel.

scootrd · « **Reply #55 on:** December 03, 2012, 06:43:27 AM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on December 03, 2012, 04:40:28 AM

GE,who's CEO is a big Obama supporter, has shut down factories in the US and moved them overseas.

GE is one of the largest abusers of tax avoidance.

G.E.’s Strategies Let It Avoid Taxes Altogether
By DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI New York Times
Published: March 24, 2011

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States. Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

That may be hard to fathom for the millions of American business owners and households now preparing their own returns, but low taxes are nothing new for G.E. The company has been cutting the percentage of its American profits paid to the Internal Revenue Service for years, resulting in a far lower rate than at most multinational companies.

Its extraordinary success is based on an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore. G.E.’s giant tax department, led by a bow-tied former Treasury official named John Samuels, is often referred to as the world’s best tax law firm. Indeed, the company’s slogan “Imagination at Work” fits this department well. The team includes former officials not just from the Treasury, but also from the I.R.S. and virtually all the tax-writing committees in Congress.

Corps can Spin "We are taxed to death " crud all they want , they get no sympathy from me. Any corporation that openly seeks tax avoidance and ways to shelter US profits to avoid US taxes should be considered a threat to our national security and economic stability. They should never be awarded any Govt contracts. period.

And it's pretty disgusting when corp lobbyist are allowed to write the tax code for our Govt.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #56 on:** December 03, 2012, 06:55:06 AM »

well it's a republic , with a federal form of govt.
the paper work is always more descriptive .

BUGEYE · « **Reply #57 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:21:18 AM »

Quote from: scootrd on December 03, 2012, 06:43:27 AM

In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

that's how many companies finance themselves. they pay the profits to the SHAREHOLDERS and pay zero tax. the SHAREHOLDERS gain a bigger dividend and they are the ones to pay the tax which works out to a lower tax rate and everyone wins except the IRS.
the difference is miniscule. ah, class warfare, bleed to death those with enough smarts and gumption to be successful.

do your homework on tax benefits and then you'll understand. or not, being a liberal.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #58 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:32:26 AM »

the more government control there is

the further the bribery money goes

billy_56081 · « **Reply #59 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:38:24 AM »

we see here the result of the dumbing down of America weh have a group who has been educated by the school of hard knocks, and a group who has been trained by the public schools/unions prpaganda. the institutionalised group cannot grasp the simple, and to folks with even a moderate amount of intelligence, common sense truth. this simple truth is, the taxes and regulation costs levied on the businesses WILL BE PASSED ON TO THE CONSUMER!