Unidentified signal cannon, I think?

[justin2500]

Hi there, I have just purchased 2 cannons which are either brass or bronze. I can not find anything that looks like these. I am wondering if they are reproductions or ornamental etc. they weigh 102Lbs each. Overall length is aprx 21". The bore is 1 5/8". each one is stamped on the mounting pegs one reads 1881 B.W.W other cannon reads T.R.W 1872. Any information would be grate I cannot find anyone here near Bangor Pa. that has any knowledge on the subject.

[cannonmn]

I've seen iron cannons similar to them.  The iron ones slide in a long rectangular recoil slide, which if yours is the same type, are missing.  The long track pivots in a huge cast iron arc, which again if yours is similar to rhe iron ones, is missing from yours.  Your cannons, if same as iron ones, were intended as models and not for saluting.  Someone has at some time added a percussion nipple which that type of model never had.

[Cannon Cocker]

Don't know anything about the model type, but the patina looks very old.  You don't get that type of color naturally for many decades. 

[jeeper1]

You don't get that type of color naturally for many decades. 

I believe Zulu has reproduced that finish on at least one of his works of art.

[flagman1776]

At 102# they are larger than they appear in the photo.  There's nothing to scale from like a soda can or powder can. 
Measurements?  What is the diameter at the vent (touch hole).  Today we like to see 3X bore diameter, though earlier designs may not have complied.  I think the others are correct that the rest of the mounting is missing.  Look at Seacoast Artillery makes...   a swivel & sliding recoil assembly.
I think you likely have a nice find, signal cannons, if you like that style of piece.

[justin2500]

Here are some more pictures. thanks for every ones replies. I did fire one of them today, after a thorough cleaning and inspection of course. it worked great some one did question the touch hole. The hole is aprx 1/4" with a cast iron percussion cap nipple installed in it. Any one have any idea of what one of these is worth? or how old it is.

[cannonmn]

IMO,not made to be fired; percussion cap added to the nonfiring model at some time after manufacture.  I collect models, and am basing what I write here on other pieces I've seen, which are iron but very similar to yours.  Don't know who made yours or why, unfortunately.  I have not seen that exact shape of tube, it is a bit like a Rodman but with noticeable differences..

[Cannoneer]

I admire your models, but they're also kind of odd. To me they more strongly resemble Dahlgren shell guns, although the "cascabels" are wrong, as are the carriages.

[little seacoast]

These guns look almost exactly like the Dahlgren barbette mounted gun that Dominic made me last year, carriage and all. The wheels of the carriage are not there on this one so I don't know if it ever had the slide portion of the mount. Sure would like to own one though.

[flagman1776]

I agree that these were probably made to be looked at a lot & shot little but we commonly see shootable models.  I don't think they were made for percussion, probably fuse, so that was added.  Yes, they don't match exactly the originals.  Not my style of gun but a nice find.   

[Delkal]

Just wondering about the comments on these not being shootable.  The cannons look to have the 3 to 1 Chamber/bore and the casting looks smooth.   Probably a quality cast.  Do you think they might have voids in the casting to make it just a decorator?

[Double D]

Where's Intodeep?  Doesn't he work with these Yacht guns--starting guns for yacht races.

[Cannoneer]

These aren't breech loaded blank firing signal/salute guns, DD.

[cannonmn]

these Yacht guns--starting guns for yacht races.

I'll just say once again that these are models, not made for firing, whether or not they are physically capable of firing.  I collect and study old cannon models, have seen and handled hundreds of 'em, and I knows one when I seize one!

[Double D]

These aren't breech loaded blank firing signal/salute guns, DD.

That's correct and they are dated in the very early days when cartridges were first being developed. Yacht guns would more likely be muzzle loading then.

Cannonmn, may be right, but then maybe not

[Cannoneer]

I'm sorry for misinterpreting your post Douglas, but when I read "yacht gun" coupled with intoodeep's name, I jumped to the conclusion that you were referring to the breech loading, firing pin activated variety. There certainly were muzzleloading yacht cannon, but these two models aren't them; also, I wouldn't put all that much faith in the dates marked on these barrels accurately reflecting when they were cast.

[KABAR2]

I am wondering if these were perhaps commishioned for a GAR post?  I could see these possible being used now and then for cerimonies fired with blanks with no real recoil a percussion cap and a small brass hammer might have seemed an easy soulution to firing.....

[Double D]

I'm sorry for misinterpreting your post Douglas, but when I read "yacht gun" coupled with intoodeep's name, I jumped to the conclusion that you were referring to the breech loading, firing pin activated variety. There certainly were muzzleloading yacht cannon, but these two models aren't them; also, I wouldn't put all that much faith in the dates marked on these barrels accurately reflecting when they were cast.

What makes you say that John?  You could be right of course.  So could JohnM of course.  But then so could Allen. In fact I like the idea of JohnM  and Allen combined.  They are models that some GAR post  got a hold of and fired. 

On the other hand JohnM alludes to seeing similiar guns in iron and not  bronze.  The fact they are  bronze and patinated and have some heavy hammer marks around the nipples says these are something different.  They have been display outdoors or at least exposed to the elements.

I think the markings are relevant,  I just don't know in what sense they might be relevant.

And, I could be completely 100% wrong.


I just don't think we should just casually pass these guns off as irrelevant.

[Cannoneer]

Douglas,
These models simply don’t correspond to any yacht guns that I’ve ever seen, especially in regards to the carriages. I’m also inclined to agree with John, that they were originally intended to be display models.   
The marked initials and years probably do have a real significance, but I wouldn’t make a big bet that they record the dates of manufacture.
I believe that Allen offers a valid speculation, those dates might even represent GAR charters.
I don’t think these models are irrelevant, to the contrary, I wish they were mine.

[Machine Tom]

I have been to a cemetery that I racking my brain to remember where, and seen a memorial with a pair of cannons like that, mounted on a masoleom.  It was in upstate NY, just can't remember where.