Help! Advice needed - Submerged ammo

[OldSchoolRanger]

I know this thread probably better belongs in the reloading/ammo section.  But since I know that there are members here that live in Louisiana, and the parts of Texas which border the gulf, that have  dealt with similar types of problems, I figured that I would ask here first.

A friend of mine lives out in Long Island, NY, and after Sandy, I gave him a call, to see how he made out.  I was lucky with just having a tree land on my house, causing minor damage since it was growing close to the house and didn't have a chance to gain momentum, he wasn't quite as lucky since his house was flooded with 2 feet of water.  Luckily his firearms were stored above the flood line except for two handguns which when recovered were cover with rust.  We're working on trying to save them.

The problem, he had over 2K rounds of ammo which was submerged in salt water for an unknown length of time.  He went back to his house a week later after the water receded.  I helped him go thru the ammo, throwing out all the paper boxes plastic holders, and drying  them out.  The shotgun ammo is corroded beyond help.  I told him to cut the shells and save the shot.

As far as the 1K+ rounds of .223 ammo , and 1K+ rounds of .45acp, and .357Mag.  Some of the ammo is tinged with green, and some is corroded, and has rust (.223 ammo) on it.   What can be done.  Can they be safely (I sorted out the ones that looked better than the rest) used?  Just try to salvage the brass and heads? or just dump them?  If I dump/recycle them, what about the unfired primers?

The pistol ammo is all (US made) factory stuff, no reloads.  The .223 ammo is all Wolf (steel cases).

If you recommend we use it up as range ammo, should we rinse this stuff off with water first (to remove the salt), then dry.  Or just fire it?

I'm especially looking for advice from those that had this problem first hand (Katrina victims), Galveston folks, etc.   Thanks for any and all advice.

[stimpylu32]

First thing I would do is pick a few and wipe them down with Rubbing Alco. to remove any salt / dirt and test fire them , this will give you a good idea as to any damage from water leaking into the cartridges .
 
If they shoot ok , rinse them off in clean water and wipe dry , as for any minor rust / corrosion that can be wipped off while drying , the heavier crud could be removed with a few min. in a tumbler . Once that is done , put them in either Zip-Loc bags or even better a Vac. sealer system bag along with a table spoon of cheap white rice .
 
stimpy
 
 

[quickdtoo]

+1 on the rice suggestion, it works on cell phones, should work on the ammo too, just rinse it off in fresh water first since it was in salt water, warehouse stores sell rice in big bags, plenty of rice to work with all the ammo.

Tim

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/how-to/tips/4269047

[gendoc]

long as its target ammo, i'd rice it and use........ but if used for hunt'n, it needsta be pitched !!!!
wud'nt wanna mame'a critter due to incorrect ignition or combustion.
thats jus me an i'm kinda touchy bout stuff like that ya see...............

[Sourdough]

I've taken shotgun shells that people thought were unusable, wiped them down with a rag saturated with WD-40.  Most of the corrosion came off, the crusted parts any way.  We shot them during duck season and they all fired just fine.  We did throw the hulls away as not reloadable.

The wolf ammo, I'd wipe it down with WD-40 as well, that should neutralize the salt corrosive affect.  Not sure I would subject them again with water since drying they may have developed weak areas that might let water in.  Any that was suspect weigh them.  If water seeped in they will weigh different, heavier.   Storing in a vac sealer would be good I think as well.  It would pull any moisture sitting in a connalure ring or any between the bullet and brass case out.  The rice would absorbe it.

As for the guns, being in salt water was bad.  With no one being allowed in till waters subsided, I'm sure they air dried, that's bad.

[OldSchoolRanger]

First thing I would do is pick a few and wipe them down with Rubbing Alco. to remove any salt / dirt and test fire them , this will give you a good idea as to any damage from water leaking into the cartridges .
 
If they shoot ok , rinse them off in clean water and wipe dry , as for any minor rust / corrosion that can be wipped off while drying , the heavier crud could be removed with a few min. in a tumbler . Once that is done , put them in either Zip-Loc bags or even better a Vac. sealer system bag along with a table spoon of cheap white rice .
 
stimpy

+1 on the rice suggestion, it works on cell phones, should work on the ammo too, just rinse it off in fresh water first since it was in salt water, warehouse stores sell rice in big bags, plenty of rice to work with all the ammo.

Tim

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/how-to/tips/4269047

stimpy & quick,
I was thinking about that solution, but I was also trying to see if there was a way to get the salt crystals off.  I assume use cold water right? 
I'll try rinsing the ammo off a small batch at a time.  The tumbler was a consideration, but someone told me years ago to never tumble loaded ammo, because it affected the powder inside the shells.  Is this true?

long as its target ammo, i'd rice it and use........ but if used for hunt'n, it needsta be pitched !!!!
wud'nt wanna mame'a critter due to incorrect ignition or combustion.
thats jus me an i'm kinda touchy bout stuff like that ya see...............

gendoc,
Never use anything but good fresh ammo (reloaded myself or factory stuff) for hunting.  I agree, game deserves respect.

I've taken shotgun shells that people thought were unusable, wiped them down with a rag saturated with WD-40.  Most of the corrosion came off, the crusted parts any way.  We shot them during duck season and they all fired just fine.  We did throw the hulls away as not reloadable.

The wolf ammo, I'd wipe it down with WD-40 as well, that should neutralize the salt corrosive affect.  Not sure I would subject them again with water since drying they may have developed weak areas that might let water in.  Any that was suspect weigh them.  If water seeped in they will weigh different, heavier.   Storing in a vac sealer would be good I think as well.  It would pull any moisture sitting in a connalure ring or any between the bullet and brass case out.  The rice would absorbe it.

As for the guns, being in salt water was bad.  With no one being allowed in till waters subsided, I'm sure they air dried, that's bad.

Sourdough,
Not home right now, using nephews computer while wife visits with sister.  But when I get home, I'll post some photos of the shotgun ammo.  Don't think anyone would use this ammo.  I'll let you see what it looks like, and you comment.  If you think it's usable, it's yours.

[mechanic]

Run them through the tumbler.  I've done over a thousand "green" WWII era Garand ammo that way.  Then do the vacuum bag and rice.
 
Ben

[hoytcanon]

Wipe em, dry em, tumble em, bag em with rice, shoot em... 

[blind ear]

Weigh them all against a known quantity. Pull bullets and dump and see if salvageable any heavy rounds. WD 40 will penetrate spaces that water won't. Might kill some good rounds, primers especially. ear

[Brian P.]

NEVER tumble loaded ammunition!
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/09/why-you-should-not-tumble-clean-loaded-ammo/
 
I would either pull the bullets and junk the rest or, if they're not that bad, save them to use as fowling shots after cleaning a gun.

[OldSchoolRanger]

I just spent a couple of hours helping my friend rinse off his ammo with fresh water.  I was surprised at the color the water turned after rinsing.  It had a bluish tint to it probably due to the salt, and corrosion.  The was also a lot of sediment mixed in.  After rinsing off the ammo, we spread it on newspaper to soak up most of the moisture, then bagged them, and added rice.  Will leave ammo bagged for a couple of days to pulled out the moisture.

Sourdough,
I attached some photos of the ammo, and photos of some of the shot shells.  I think you'll agree the shotgun ammo is damaged beyond saving.  We're going to stick with original plan, and cut the shells to save the shot for later use.  Glad we could save most of his ammo stash, it hurts to spend all that cash for ammo, then to have to  throw it  out. 
I learned an important lesson from my friends misfortune, I bought a bunch of military surplus 50 cal ammo cans, and some MTM ammo cans for my ammo.  Never know when your gonna need the extra protection for the ammo.

Brian P. - Thanks for the link, I knew I read some where the warning to not tumble (in this case vibrate) loaded ammo.

Thanks to everyone for their advice, we managed to save most of the ammo, we'll find out in a couple of weeks how the saved rounds shoot.

[cwlongshot]

Use a soft wire wheel and you can salvage those shotgun shells!!

I slant many a season in salt water marshes hunting ducks. Every trip the usual was to clean the guns and wire brush the shells!!

If you see that the integrity of the case has been compromised toss it and I would not reload any cases I wore wheeled. BUT I have done this hundreds upon hundreds of times. NO issues whatso ever.
Just use a soft wire wheel. The idea is to remove the tarnish as as little brass as possible.

BTW the "brass" of a shotgun shell has little to nothing to do with its strength. Lo and hi brass is for quick identification. Not strength. I don't know if you remember the brand ACTIV from the eighties. There shells had NO brass and only a disc of Nicole steel I. The head to support the primer hole.

CW

[Sourdough]

I agree with your assesment.

Many years ago I went to an auction at the military salvage yard.  Did not read the plackard completely missed the part about there being a total of four pallets, not just the one on display.  Thought I was bidding on 100 ammo cans.  Luckily I had also gotten the bid on an engine, so I took my auto trailer along.  Ended up with 500 .30 cal cans, 120 .50 cal cans, and some huge cans that held some kind of mortor rounds.  Some about a hundred of the .30 cal cans were the tall ones about 24" tall.

Sold ammo cans for ever it seems.  Mounted them in the boat, under trailers, gave some to friends.  but today I keep my powder, bullets, and loaded ammo in ammo cans.  If the Tanana or Chena ever flood again like they had flooded in the past, I'm ready. 

[Dinny]

NEVER tumble loaded ammunition!
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/09/why-you-should-not-tumble-clean-loaded-ammo/
 
I would either pull the bullets and junk the rest or, if they're not that bad, save them to use as fowling shots after cleaning a gun.

Wow! I thought I had read somewhere that some manufacturers tumble their loaded rounds to give it a sparkling look just for consumer's curb appeal.


Thanks, Dinny

[Airsporter]

Personally, I would save the shotshells.  Neutralized the corrosion as described, wire brush, and go for it.  The "brass" in current offerings (plastic) does nothing more than provide extraction - pressure is not an issue.

[OldSchoolRanger]

Personally, I would save the shotshells.  Neutralized the corrosion as described, wire brush, and go for it.  The "brass" in current offerings (plastic) does nothing more than provide extraction - pressure is not an issue.

I didn't post photos showing the bottom of the shells, the primers are toast.  The shotshells shown are probably the best of the batch.  I think two or at best three or four might go bang.

Take a look, remember, these are the best of the lot.

[YRUpunting?]

Hit them with the brush as suggested and give them a try.  I bet they go off.  If they don't then salvage the shot.

I'd put the center fire shells in the tumbler with some walnut media.  I don't buy the standard vibrator tumbler with can shake the powder hard enough to cause a problem.  Give them 45 minutes and see what you get.

[gcrank1]

I was gifted some old shotshells that had been in damp, not flooded basement, and many were pretty grungy. I wiped, steel wooled, and even wire brushed the particular bad spots on some, and few went off.........wasnt worth the trouble other than for flinch practice.
So I cut 'em, saved the shot and even messed with some of the powder just to see if it was good, and it was.
Set up a little wood jig , put it in a pan and use a utility knife; roll the shotshell on the jig and cut the shell where you want. Its quick, clean and you will save a trip to the ER for cutting your thumb........

[yukondog]

I think my main concern would be salt from the ammo getting in the barrel or action.

[SHOOTALL]

Run them through the tumbler.  I've done over a thousand "green" WWII era Garand ammo that way.  Then do the vacuum bag and rice.
 
Ben

yep it works well add brasso or such if you want it shinney. I had the opertunity to shoot a winchester shell that layed in a boat for a couple weeks short of a year out in the sun and weather , it was fine. I had 5 gal buckets of reloading bullets and loaded bullets that got filled with water when I move . It was weeks before I found the mess. It was bad enough that the cardboard was stuck to the bullets on the boxes that dried others were still wet. Run thru tumbler and loaded and shot bullets and same with loaded ammo. Some was really ratty looking. I would trash pitted ammo though.

[stimpylu32]

NEVER tumble loaded ammunition!
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/09/why-you-should-not-tumble-clean-loaded-ammo/
 
I would either pull the bullets and junk the rest or, if they're not that bad, save them to use as fowling shots after cleaning a gun.

I read the link , what a bunch of BS - load a few hundred rounds and drive from Ohio to the OK Panhandle , see what that does to ammo . As for tumbling after loading , does Remington or Federal have people hand polishing every case as it comes off the line -- I DON'T THINK SO !!!!!!
 
stimpy

[SHOOTALL]

if shaking mattered how on earth could one arm a fighter jet , tank or chopper ? really !

[cwlongshot]

Modern shot shells are nearly sealed compaired to just crimped shells of old

What do you have to loose. I would clean and shoot them just like I have been doing for years.


As for tumbling live shells, I must admit I have done it a few times with no ill effect.
Good point stimpy, take that trip in a HD2500 Cheby with a light load and I'll bet they get shook even more!! LOl

CW