Author Topic: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.  (Read 838 times)

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Offline powderman

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Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« on: December 03, 2012, 05:21:15 AM »
Veterans' gun rights a sticky issue in defense bill  Published December 03, 2012
Associated Press     
  •    Sen, Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., left, talks with Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., on Capitol Hill in Washington, during President Barack Obama's State of the Union address in Washington. (AP)
  WASHINGTON –  Should veterans deemed too mentally incompetent to handle their own financial affairs be prevented from buying a gun?
The issue, for a time last week, threatened to become the biggest sticking point in a $631 billion defense bill for reshaping a military that is disengaging from a decade of warfare.
Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., sought to amend the bill to stop the Veterans Affairs Department from putting the names of veterans deemed too mentally incompetent to handle their finances into the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which prohibits them from buying or owning firearms.
 
Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., objected, saying the measure would make it easier for veterans with mental illness to own a gun, endangering themselves and others.
"I love our veterans, I vote for them all the time. They defend us," Schumer said. "If you are a veteran or not and you have been judged to be mentally infirm, you should not have a gun."
Currently, the VA appoints fiduciaries, often family members, to manage the pensions and disability benefits of veterans who are declared incompetent. When that happens, the department automatically enters the veteran's name in the Criminal Background Check System.
 
A core group of lawmakers led by Sen. Richard Burr, R-N.C., has for several years wanted to prohibit the VA from submitting those names to the gun-check registry unless a judge or magistrate deems the veteran to be a danger. This year's version of the bill has 21 co-sponsors. It passed the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee by voice vote, a tactic generally reserved for noncontroversial legislation. Coburn's amendment to the defense bill contained comparable language.
"All I am saying is, let them at least have their day in court if you are going to take away a fundamental right given under the Constitution," Coburn said in the Senate debate last Thursday night.
 
Congressional aides said Coburn will likely drop his effort to amend the defense bill with his proposal, but that he intends to try again on other bills coming to the Senate floor.
The number of veterans directly affected by the VA's policy doesn't appear to very large. Only 185 out of some 127,000 veterans added to the gun-check registry since 1998 have sought to have their names taken off, according to data that the VA shared with lawmakers during a hearing last June.
 
Still, the legislation over the years has attracted strong support from the National Rifle Association and various advocacy groups for veterans.
"We consider it an abject tragedy that so many of our veterans return home, after risking life and limb to defend our freedom, only to be stripped of their Second Amendment rights because they need help managing their compensation," Chris Cox, the NRA's chief lobbyist, wrote last year in an editorial.
 
The NRA did not respond to queries from the AP about Coburn's latest effort.
Dan Gross, president of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said gun control advocates consider the VA's current policy reasonable.
"We're talking about people who have some form of disability to the extent that they're unable to manage their own affairs," Gross said. "If you're deemed unable to handle your own affairs, that's likely to constitute a high percentage of people who are dangerously mentally ill."
 
Tom Tarantino, chief policy officer for Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, said veterans with a traumatic brain injury or post-traumatic stress disorder but who pose no threat to others are possibly being barred from gun ownership. The current restrictions might even be a disincentive for veterans to seek needed treatment, he said.
 
"We want to remove these stigmas for mental health treatment. It's a combat injury," Tarantino said. "They wouldn't be doing this if you were missing your right hand, so they shouldn't be doing it if you're seeking treatment for post-traumatic-stress-disorder or traumatic brain injury."
 
VA officials have told lawmakers they believe veterans deemed incompetent already have adequate protections.
For example, they said, veterans can appeal the finding of incompetency based on new evidence. And even if the VA maintains a veteran is incompetent, he can petition the agency to have his firearm rights restored on the basis of not posing a threat to public safety.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/03/veterans-gun-rights-sticking-point-in-defense-bill/#ixzz2E0Sd7ugv
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
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Offline Mikey

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 05:28:15 AM »
schumer is lower than pond scum and is a lying pos.  If veterans began sending his office letters expressing their disgust with both he and his senate squeeze kristan gillibrand maybe, just maybe he would think about shutting his cake hole.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 06:00:19 AM »
Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.


This post title is misleading - Schumer didn't say that vets in general, or all vets, are incompetent to own a gun. I think is this what they call a logical fallacy... right? Any lawyers here?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline two-blocked

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2012, 06:03:52 AM »
logical fallacy or maybe incompetence!  ;)

Offline lakota

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2012, 06:29:33 AM »
This issue is full of pitfalls. I agree that if someone is mentally infirm they should not own a gun. But who gets to decide what "mentally infirm" is? It seems that it is getting way too easy to be judged "mentally infirm" and then be stripped of your 2nd Amendment rights these days just like it is way too easy to become a felon and be stripped of your 2nd Amendment rights.
 
I dont trust these politicians. This is more back door gun control only it is deeply disguised.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2012, 06:29:41 AM »
logical fallacy or maybe incompetence!  ;)

 
Anybody who voted for or supports hussein has already shown mental incompetence, I'll trust a vet over a libbydem any day. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline dwalk

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2012, 06:38:55 AM »
it's already law that the mentally incompetent may not own firearms.


IMO, there's nothing wrong with that.


but, using veterans who are troubled, in order to pass legislation, is NOT commendable IMO[size=78%].[/size]








don't squat while wearing your spurs...will rogers

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2012, 06:46:43 AM »
My wifes former boss has a brother that's a little slow and needs help with his finances.
however, he drives, HUNTS, fishes and TARGET SHOOTS.  it would be nice if each situation could be judged fairly, but there's too many liberals calling the shots(no pun intended).
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Offline SwampThing762

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2012, 07:01:26 AM »
Schumer, and his buddy Obammy, are only interested in disarming America to facilitate their communist revolution.  We should all remember that, and vote all the b#$@&%*s in the next election.   if we cant use the ballot box, it may come down to the bullet box; but, I really hope that day never comes.

ST762
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 07:03:35 AM »
This issue is full of pitfalls. I agree that if someone is mentally infirm they should not own a gun. But who gets to decide what "mentally infirm" is? It seems that it is getting way too easy to be judged "mentally infirm" and then be stripped of your 2nd Amendment rights these days just like it is way too easy to become a felon and be stripped of your 2nd Amendment rights.
 
I dont trust these politicians. This is more back door gun control only it is deeply disguised.
I agree. And Schumer in particular is suspect - he's a gun-grabber at heart, everyone knows this - but that's no reason for a disingenuous thread titles that misleads, rather than informs.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2012, 01:05:35 PM »
Hmmmm?

A fairly complex issue, made so by those with a vested interest in disarming America!

A persons ability to make rational descisions about firearms use should not be directly tied to their ability to manage money. If that were true then no liberal should ever be allowed to vote either! ;)

In my state a persons right to own firearms can only be abrogated for mental illness if they have been ajudicated as mentally ill. Means: a court must make the determination. Which sounds reasonable to me. Thhis means someone has to take the time to decide if taking away someones rights is a rational and valid action. Instead of some buracrat making that descision arbitrarily, which may mean that said buracrat may make said descision based soley on a perception that "guns are bad", or......"any excuse is a good excuse!"

I have known people in my life who couldn't balance a check book, but they were good people, good workers, and yes.... good gun owners.
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Defoe

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2012, 01:28:44 PM »
Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.


This post title is misleading - Schumer didn't say that vets in general, or all vets, are incompetent to own a gun. I think is this what they call a logical fallacy... right? Any lawyers here?
so what.  do you read the article before or after you make your remarks??
have you ever made a positive comment on anything Powderman posted??
 ::)

Offline Anna

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2012, 01:34:53 PM »
Notice the use of financial difficulties. So what's next, are you going to have to pass a credit check
to get a gun ? After Obama ruined our economy in his first term,there is not to many people left that
don't have some kind of a black mark on their credit anymore.
So was this all planned ? Bad credit no gun, just like businesses are doing bad credit no job ?
( Oh but Anna that shows they are irresponsible, because my credit is just fine )
Ok, but most of these people had no control over what happened to the economy. That self indulged
chest beating is what they the gun grabbers love to see. Divide and conquer, if a person was competent enough to own a gun BO ( before Obama ) how does his calling the shots now make them
any different ? This is why we lose people,because we are not organized and we victimize each other.
 

Offline Casull

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2012, 01:39:19 PM »
Quote
so what.  do you read the article before or after you make your remarks??
have you ever made a positive comment on anything Powderman posted??

 
 
 
Good questions.  However, don't expect an answer.  A reply possibly, but not an answer.   ;)
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline Anna

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2012, 01:59:56 PM »
What this all boils down to is, sometime within the last four years the banks, lawyers, and special
interest groups have all had their mussels removed and allowed to run mad dog all over the
American public. Big government ? Then why hasn't this big government done anything to reel in
the problems it has caused ? Or the sharks that are benefiting from this namely lawyers ?
People getting a second mortgage on their homes ( here we have the banks ) just to defend themselves from a frivolous law suit ( the special interest groups ) .
A snake eating its own tail .

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2012, 02:23:14 PM »
so what.
So what? I'll tell you what: the truth matters.
Quote
  do you read the article before or after you make your remarks??
sometimes one, sometimes the other, oftentimes both
Quote
have you ever made a positive comment on anything Powderman posted??
 ::)
I have. You ever made a critical one?


does Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun give an accurate flavor for Schumer's position?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2012, 02:38:42 PM »


does Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun give an accurate flavor for Schumer's position?

Yes!
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Defoe

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2012, 02:39:52 PM »
I have. You ever made a critical one?

I haven't been here very long, but my impression of Powderman is that a lot of his posts are simply interesting items without a personal comment.
I've noticed that he is anti islam, and more people need to wake up to his warnings.
they killed about 3000 people on our soil, but too many people have forgotten. many countries are waking up, except us.
no, I've never made a post critical to him.  plus he gave me a warm welcome when I registered.

and, now that I think about it, you seem to be hostile to almost everyone... :o

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2012, 03:59:28 PM »
and, now that I think about it, you seem to be hostile to almost everyone... :o
Hostile? How so? I'm not hostile towards you, Rat. Don't confuse my feelings towards you, with what yours may be towards me.


we're moving off-topic. got something personal? Confine to PMs, please...
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline powderman

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2012, 04:22:52 PM »
WHARF RAT. Thanks, but when it comes to that individual of which you speak I find him pathetic but mostly amusing. TRy reading his posts without grinning and thinking about how patheticly transparent they are. Try it, you'll get a good laugh, I know I do. POWDERMAN.  ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Anna

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2012, 12:45:42 AM »
But if we didn't have opposing views this place would get pretty boring. Some of his post have been
in total agreement with the critical issues we all discuss here. So what if he rides a rice burner,we all
can't ride Harley's.  ;D

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2012, 02:15:18 AM »
wharf rat, you could yt on ignore like I did.
the remaining members are more rational. ;D
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2012, 03:46:01 AM »
But if we didn't have opposing views this place would get pretty boring. Some of his post have been
in total agreement with the critical issues we all discuss here. So what if he rides a rice burner,we all
can't ride Harley's.  ;D
I've thought about getting a Harley. Benefits? Well... I'd get club membership, which is the main thing with a Harley. I'd prob get a wider seat with backrest for my sweetie. And it would be low to the ground. On the downside... I wouldn't be able to pass five or six cars at a wack on the two-lane on the way to work, wouldn't have near the cornering/braking, it would shake more, and I wouldn't look near as cool.


trade-offs everywhere...
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline rkeltner

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Re: Dems schumer says vets incompetent to own a gun.
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2012, 03:16:19 AM »
concerning financial difficulties, in my state several years ago, the property taxes were adjusted because a judge determined that the  system was not 'fair'. result? no small number of people had to go belly up on motgages as property taxes increased by 150%, 200%, 300% or more! these people would be knocked out of the system, and most by no fault of their own!