Author Topic: Anyone else use the 3 inch rise rule for sighting in. (Read 1261 times)

jpshaw · « **on:** December 04, 2012, 02:21:04 AM »

I started this by accident when sighting my .30-30 for a grown over clear cut. All shots would be within 30 - 50 yards with the exception of a timber line coming out to a dirt road that was 150 yds. Set for 3" high at 100 and thought that would work for both distances.

Later while hunting another stand I had a 200 yd shot. The 1/2 8 point (he got whupped during the rut and the right 4 points were missing) went about 50 yds down the creek bottom and folded. I was shooting pretty much dead on.

Then I found this chart. It stated that as long as your bullet flight was within 3" of your line of sight you were OK for deer and had less problem fiquring holdover. I should say "plain of sight since sometimes bullet path never touches LINE of sight.

Round Bullet BC 100 200 MRZ MDZ
yds yds yds yds

7 - 08 140 .485 +2.6 +1.9 3"@140 285

.30-30 150 .268 +2.9 -0.6 3"@110 225

.444 265 .191 +3.0 -3.3 3"@100 197

Rule is bullet never reaches over 3" over line of sight and the final fiqure is when the bullet is 3" under line of sight. MRZ is the point bullet is 3" high. absolute zero is not known but with .30-30 it's probably about 90 yds and with the 7-08 it seems to be about 240 yds. Neat little table I might sight my 7-08 with it.

My 100 yds used to be 1" high and I never really knew when it crossed or how low it was at 200.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #1 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:47:41 AM »

it's called point blank aming. Another trick is to shoot at 25 meters sighting in so your bullet strikes 2 inches above point of aim to get on target. What I line to do is get sighted in at say dead on at 175 yards then shoot at 25 meters or 30 yards what ever and record where I hit then use the short distance to check when a longer distance is not aval.

jpshaw · « **Reply #2 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:03:17 AM »

I'm using the table with a grain of salt. My .30-30 150's are moving at 2400 in front of a healthy dose of RE15 and are spire points so should drop a little less.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:20:17 AM »

Alot of guys shoot short distance most of their hunting then one day get a long shot for them and many will let a bit of light between the aiming point and critters back causing a miss.

FPH · « **Reply #4 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:29:06 AM »

I use 2.5 " high at 100 M. I calculate my elevation from 25 M to 500M from there.

bucmeister · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:30:51 AM »

Nothing replaces practice at the given distance, maybe not a hundred rounds, but at least a few to know what your rifle and given load actually do.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2012, 04:36:26 AM »

Ive used the same concept but only 2" and it has served me well in my environment. For open sight guns I pick MMD (my max distance) that I should be shooting and -0- for it or about 25yds. less.

jpshaw · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2012, 04:46:13 AM »

From my vague memory from the Army we sighted our M14's (yes I'm old) for 25 yds that was also crossing back down around 275. My son thought we were still shoving the rounds down the muzzle when I was in.

Doc Fillem · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2012, 04:53:03 AM »

Chuck Hawks has a good article about "Maximum Point Blank Range".
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm

cwlongshot · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2012, 05:07:08 AM »

Yup, that's max point blank range. IMHO it's a pretty good method for the majority of hunters as most our hunting calibers are gonna fall within about a 50-60 yard "slot" centered about 315 yards.

I don't do it with my handis as I don't shoot them that far. But I certainly do on my bolt guns!!

CW

jpshaw · « **Reply #10 on:** December 04, 2012, 05:28:01 AM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on December 04, 2012, 05:07:08 AM

I don't do it with my handis as I don't shoot them that far. But I certainly do on my bolt guns!!

I did it with my .30-30 Handi just to reach 200 yds and it does do that but you'll notice that 225 is max 3" drop so the poor thing is running out of gas past 200 yds. No biggie it's still my favorite rifle to hunt with. My 200 yds shot this year was from another stand. My box stand the max is 175 yds.

You will notice I charted the 7mm 08 and .444 too. They are my other rifles and no the 7-08 is not a Handi but a Remington 700 short action.

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **Reply #11 on:** December 04, 2012, 05:59:12 AM »

In MY opinion,
the only acceptable way to determine this is to SHOOT YOUR WEAPON at all the distances and SEE where it ACTUALLY hits.
Period. All else is simply and estimation with many variables.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** December 04, 2012, 06:25:53 AM »

Quote from: jpshaw on December 04, 2012, 04:46:13 AM

From my vague memory from the Army we sighted our M14's (yes I'm old) for 25 yds that was also crossing back down around 275. My son thought we were still shoving the rounds down the muzzle when I was in.

I have copies of those targets and they work. It's a battle sight . The same thing is in the miliytary service bulitian that goes with a 30 carbine and I expect other weapons also. It must have been hard to check zero on a troop ship before landing and someone came up with these targets . Someone mentioned the only way to sight in was at every distance , that is a good way but could you imagine the 4 million + soilders in WW2 all shooting up that much ammo ?

FPH · « **Reply #13 on:** December 04, 2012, 07:12:39 AM »

I always paper at 50 , 100, 250 and 300 meters. I extrapolate from there. Heck, I've only take one shot ( on meat ) over 75 yds in the past 15-20 years.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2012, 07:42:52 AM »

I have taken only a very few one over 250 and maybe 4 over 100 . But I like to hunt and here there is alot of cover.

tomtomz · « **Reply #15 on:** December 04, 2012, 08:04:06 AM »

What is the distance from the center of your bore to the line of sight?

Most tables assume 1.5 inches at the barrel, which isn't very common with my overscoped
weapons.

I think that your method is likely very good, Chuck Hawks' is better.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2012, 08:05:06 AM »

Is that the guy who has Hawks scopes ?

knight0334 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 04, 2012, 04:22:17 PM »

I used the 3" high rule for my 22" 45-70 Handi using Winchester's 300gr JHP Super-X ammo at 50yrds. When I turned to the 100yrd target it was dead frig'n center.

All my other guns got sighted in at whatever yardage respectively the old fashion way.

Wagguy80 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 04, 2012, 04:27:18 PM »

I sight mine in high based on cartridge and muzzle velocity of whatever I'm shooting for a 300 yard zero. Except for my .444 I set it for a 200 yard zero.

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #19 on:** December 04, 2012, 05:45:06 PM »

it all depends on the game animal, and the farthest out your bullet is still lethal

every game animal is a different size, and every cartridge/bullet combo is different...

I used to use a 8" zone for MPBR, but now, use 10" for Deer, 14" for Elk and 18" for Moose.

Calculate your max range and confirm it on paper.

I like my guns to be "Instamatic" Get within range and Just point and shoot! Aim for the Center of the chest.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** December 05, 2012, 01:05:48 AM »

ya'll must have some big deer here the kill zone is about 6 inches .

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #21 on:** December 05, 2012, 06:58:14 AM »

Well, I AM from Saskatchewan....

there have been a couple biggies shot up here. Even the does offer a pretty large target.

if I am only going out for does and bambi's I will take a different rifle, than if going for "either sex" where bucks MAY be on the agenda.

but even a bambi will be meat in the freezer with any hit inside the 10" zone.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** December 05, 2012, 09:10:26 AM »

Never been to you place but have hunted Manatoba many times and can assure you the deer there are way bigger than in the area of Va. I hunt. Does here may get to 120 lb but 80-90 is more the norm. But then also I'm talking a circle not just up and down. On alot of deer a 10 circle would be a shot a bit to far back. provided the front of the circle was even with the front of the deer.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** December 05, 2012, 09:31:17 AM »

MPBR is based on a 10" kill zone. Traditionally a 9-10" paper plate has been used as a general kill zone size for deer, has worked for our family for 60yrs or so.

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/kill_zone_game_animals.htm

http://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/shooting/ballistics/understanding-mpbr-for-better-shooting/

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** December 05, 2012, 10:05:17 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on December 05, 2012, 09:31:17 AM

MPBR is based on a 10" kill zone. Traditionally a 9-10" paper plate has been used as a general kill zone size for deer, has worked for our family for 60yrs or so.

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/kill_zone_game_animals.htm

http://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/shooting/ballistics/understanding-mpbr-for-better-shooting/

What works for others is fine , I say if you can put shots in a 6 inch circle from fireld positions under no stress then hitting a deer should be easy . If hitting a paper plate around the edges is you qualifyer and you get buck fever ( why hunt if you don't feel at least some rush) then where is there margin for error ?

mechanic · « **Reply #25 on:** December 05, 2012, 11:18:45 AM »

Bear in mind this is subjective. I have a brother that shoot "see thru" mounts and has a scope that must be 2" over the line of sight. That can make a big difference at 200 yds. Different ammo and bullet wt.s as well.

I understand you are referring to already calculated charts, and they are pretty good, but I still like to actually shoot mine at the distance intended just to feel confident.

Ben

Sourdough · « **Reply #26 on:** December 05, 2012, 12:42:30 PM »

Different guns totally different point blank range. My .44 mag is sighted in to be dead on at 100 yards. My 30-06 is sighted dead on for 200 yards. My weatherby 338/378 is sighted in for 400 yards.

What I am saying is there is a whole bunch of variables. Velocity, bullet weight, Bullet shape/coefficient, No one rule fits all cases. I always sighted in for 2" high at 100 yards till I started shooting a lot more than once a year. It worked at the time, but I never shot beyond 150 yards either. Most shots were at 80 yards. Back then I only had one gun, a .308. Today I have specialty guns some for devastating effect at close range, 15 to 30 yards. (45-70, 350 Rem Mag Black Bears over bait). Others for shooting moderate ranges, 25-06 30-06 500 to 700 yards. Then long ranges 337/378 Weatherby out to 1000yards.

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #27 on:** December 05, 2012, 01:47:10 PM »

Quote from: Sourdough on December 05, 2012, 12:42:30 PM

Different guns totally different point blank range. ... My weatherby 338/378 is sighted in for 400 yards.
....Then long ranges 337/378 Weatherby out to 1000yards.

exactly. you wouldn't use the 338/378 for deer but for trophy moose?? for sure!

I have heard rumours the Alaskan Moose (same sub species as the Yukon?) is noticably bigger than the Saskatchewan Moose, (AND the Manitoba Moose which, from my limited experience, are bigger than the Saskies.)

I shot a moose in Lynn Lake area Northern Mb, and there was easily 30" from hump to heart that would have been the kill zone.... perhaps 30" front shoulder to liver area also... Huge.

I also hear those Alaskan Moose give you another target above the head... hit them horns and you knock them out for a few minutes!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #28 on:** December 06, 2012, 02:51:17 AM »

when you sight in any rifle at 25 meters ( 30 yards what ever ) the bullet is traveling what would be in its upward arc to cross the line of sight for the scope or iron sights for that matter. At this point one has to know the trajectory of his bullet with in reason to understand where his shot should go. What I have found with 2506 , 708 , 308 , 3006 , 300 win mag and a few others is your bullet will pass back thru the line of sight somewhere between 250 to 350 yards . The bullet will not rise above 4-5 inches above line of sight . If yo have no other option to sight in this will work on short range shots. It is also an aid for getting on paper . As noted it's better to shoot at ranges you hunt or target shoot . But once you have your rifle sighted in if you set a target at say 25 meters and take a good shot at it you have a short range refference you can check your rifle with anytime.
What some forget is the military developed these short sight in targets for sight in of a particular rifle and load. They had everything worked out for each rifle load combo. If you use it you have to work out your load rifle combo. That said if handed a 308 rifle that needed sighting in and only had a 25 meter target to use if I got the bullet strike 1 3/8 " above the sighting point and correct for windage I would have no reservations hunting with the rifle and taking shots out to 100 -150 yards If I was using 150 -165 gr bullets at standard velosity.