Michigan might be # 24

[jimster]

Looks like we might be the 24th state for right to work. It's in the fast lane.
http://www.examiner.com/article/michigan-likely-to-become-next-right-to-work-state

[Anna]

The right to work is only fair.

[Drilling Man]

The right to work is only fair.

  I AGREE!
 
  DM

[woodsie57]

"Right to work" was passed recently here in Indiana-Didn't seem like all that big of a thing to me; if the union is earning their keep, people will stay in. My union officials [I'm in a union] were going nuts, organizing protests and such-lots of pressure to conform to their way of thinking. They see their income dwindling away. The only gripe I [and a lot of other members] have is the financial support of the Dem.party-Now that members can vote with their dues,some overdue changes should be coming!

[scootrd]

"This is about workplace fairness and equality." - Rick Snyder

No Rick This is all about Labor vs Management. Right to work states have lower paying Jobs.

Hmm well if it's such a good thing why you rammin it through without allowing it put to a referendum so the people of  Michigan can decide for themselves? 

What is fair in a workplace where non-union people benefit from union negotiations without having to contribute?.
It's about as fair as allowing persons to collect social security without ever having contributed.

I find the hypocricy in general so interesting on both sides. Republicans get all up in arms when dems ram legislation through in lame duck sessions, but when they do it  -  it's OK.

Some folks have strange interpretations of the word FAIR.


JMHO

Semper Fi.

If you want fair , put the bill to the voters to decide. they wont,  because they know the vote in Michigan would be a resounding "NO".

[woodsie57]

If the union [mine is UAW] weren't using such a large precentage of dues to push a Democrat agenda many see as destructive to the country,they would have little to worry about.

[SHOOTALL]

What right to work really says is if you don't wish to join a union you don't have to and you don't have to pay union dues if you don't.
Lower wages in right to work states , that might have some merit since those workers who do not meet expectations don't get paid the same as the workers who do meet expectation. So what's your point ? Also it seems that there is less need for these gold brickers since the workers who produce are not held back and get more done. Not to mention in right to work states where cost of govt etc is held in check the cost of living is less and often better. I don't seem to hear much about folks retireing to a union state where it cost less to live when they retire 
 So in right to work states the lazy are on their own 

[tobster]

Wouldn't the right to decide if you wanted to be in a union or not be be considered "pro-choice"? As a member of the Teamsters it always bothered me that my money was going to back politicians I despised.  Detroit has to be the epitome of over zealous unions. Right-to-work states might have lower paying jobs, but at least they HAVE jobs. Norther Michigan is full of retired UAW workers that have been drawing a pension for more years than they actually worked. That's a boat that can't float for too much longer.
 
  On the flip side I had a friend that was a postal worker in Florida and he claimed that the union was forced to represent employees that weren't union members and didn't pay dues. That sure doesn't seem right.

[BUGEYE]

I've been watching this all day on TV and what I see is some really gutter mouth mob types.
nothing like an unruly mob to to get a point across.
I've had too many friends lose their jobs to union stubborness...
and I wouldn't pay dues to some DNC lackeys.

[Cuts Crooked]

 
  On the flip side I had a friend that was a postal worker in Florida and he claimed that the union was forced to represent employees that weren't union members and didn't pay dues. That sure doesn't seem right.

This little piece of BS is just that. The union is only required to represent an non union employee up to the point where money gets involved........if it cost the union anything, they can step out at that point.

People should join unions because they WANT too, not because they HAVE too.

[SHOOTALL]

 
  On the flip side I had a friend that was a postal worker in Florida and he claimed that the union was forced to represent employees that weren't union members and didn't pay dues. That sure doesn't seem right.

This little piece of BS is just that. The union is only required to represent an non union employee up to the point where money gets involved........if it cost the union anything, they can step out at that point.

People should join unions because they WANT too, not because they HAVE too. best statement on unions posted yet. If the union offers a benifit people will want to join. If they have to pass laws to force them to join the union must not be that good . Why would politicans pass such laws ? hummmmmmm

[Cuts Crooked]

If they have to pass laws to force them to join the union must not be that good . Why would politicans pass such laws ? hummmmmmm

Good question. Easy to answer....Unions are one of their biggest sources of MONEY, direct from your union dues! And politicos from both sides have their snouts in THAT trough!

[scootrd]

The truth about the partnership between corporations and and right to work states are right to work states provide corporations with higher growth margins for stakeholders. 

corporations in right to work states (mostly southern, but not all) tend to offer a much lower Pay scales while these states tend to also have higher unemployment. Corporations love that scenario because they can set up shop and have an immediate pool of the unemployed they can hire at much lower pay scales.  This allows  the right to work state corp to further line the pockets of CEO's and board members with higher salaries and huge bonuses all the while still enhancing profit margins. Then right to work state corporate management steps in and does their part by communicating "Be happy living off just the crumbs of the Kings Table".   translated  just be happy you still have a job even though your only getting barely above poverty wages.......


Semper Fi

[Cuts Crooked]

The truth about the partnership between corporations and and right to work states are right to work states provide corporations with higher growth margins for stakeholders. 

corporations in right to work states (mostly southern, but not all) tend to offer a much lower Pay scales while these states tend to also have higher unemployment. Corporations love that scenario because they can set up shop and have an immediate pool of the unemployed they can hire at much lower pay scales.  This allows  the right to work state corp to further line the pockets of CEO's and board members with higher salaries and huge bonuses all the while still enhancing profit margins. Then right to work state corporate management steps in and does their part by communicating "Be happy living off just the crumbs of the Kings Table".   translated  just be happy you still have a job even though your only getting barely above poverty wages.......


Semper Fi

And another socialist tries to explain all the wrongs of capitalism.

[BUGEYE]

Just saw some union thugs beat up a reporter.  I would never want to be identified with a mob like that who is trying to remove the freedom to spend your own money as you see fit.

back when delta fell on hard times, THE EMPLOYEES volunteered to give back until the bad times were past.  delta not only restored our wages, but gave us a raise and bonus when they were again in the black.
at the time, my wife and I lived in a very large house, so the future being unsure, we sold it and bought a more modest house, and guess what, we can pay cash for whatever we want.

my point?  If delta had been union, we might have followed eastern airlines into oblivion.

[jimster]

No Rick This is all about Labor vs Management. Right to work states have lower paying Jobs.

No Scootrd...false statement...union shops are not making what others do in the private sector.  I work for a non union place, everyone there makes more then GM does now...of course GM is not paying what they used to...unions broke their backs, we all had to bail them out. Poor track records for unions these days. Lots of small union shops around town...some now are voting out the unions.
I make about 9 bucks an hour more than people in GM do...the hourly folks here make an average of 6 bucks an hour more than GM employees do. Plus bonuses.
Bottom line is for this state...the unions should have left well enough alone...they tried to ram proposition 2 down our throats after "Rick" asked them not to change our Constitution...so we then gave them a round house and knocked em down for good. They started it...we finished it. Our governor told them proposition 2 was too divisive and went to deep.  They did not listen. After we voted that down, the legislation took the next step...make sure they don't try that again. The governor warned them.
If the unions here want people to join...they can...they just can't force it down their throats anymore. They need to OFFER something that attracts us. Well...it ain't money...they take that out of your check and send it to dems in D.C....so what do they have Scootrd? What do they have to offer us? Besides bankrupting government motors and making me pay....?  Now they don't even get their members decent money in the private sector. Not in this state anyway. Public sector needs to realize a few things as well..stay tuned for that...we can't afford them either in some cases.
There was a time for unions...way past..it's over.  We have labor laws now, we have safety laws, we have inspections...and we pay what an employee is worth where I work...no union did that. And never ran the company in red ink until bankrupt, or ask anyone to bail us out. No union here where I work. No union needed.
We can vote one in if we want...which is fair enough. But get your facts straight...unions do not mean more money in the private sector, not in this state.
Well the unions were itching for a fight this past summer trying to change our constitution...we gave em one...they asked for it, they got it. 
 

[jimster]

Not only do non-union states have much lower pay, they have:
less equal pay
for women, and far less equal pay for minorities
less benefits or HC
benefits
lots more wrongful and discrimnatory dismissals
.
..and so
on
.
..TM7

By the way....my boss is black...makes a lot more than I do...and he's a great guy.  Of course none of the other things you say is true where I work either...but you kind of know that I reckon...nice talking points though. If it were true. I think you guys are living in the past...like 50 years ago maybe.

[BUGEYE]

One thing that unions don't tell people is that once the employees vote in the union, they lose their pay and ALL benefits...  everything must be negotiated.  coffee breaks even have to be negotiated.
so folks who are voting had better think hard.  you may end up with a lot less than what you had.

http://www.1-888-no-union.com/aboutunions/collectivebargaining.html

you'll still get paid etc. during negotiations  but when that contract is okayed, you could be saying "why was I so stupid"

[mcbammer]

I  saw  where  this  legislation  only  effects  the  private   sector .  the   government  unions  are  the  real  problem  IMO  .I  live  in  a  right  to  work  state.  Currently   there  is  Mercedes  ,  Honda ,  Hyundai ,  and  three  more  in  neighboring  states  pumping  out  cars left   right  .  Michigan   saw  this  as  a  way  to  compete in the market place but   will  we  see the price   of  a  Ford  or  Chevy  come  down ?

[scootrd]

Not only do non-union states have much lower pay, they have:
less equal pay
for women, and far less equal pay for minorities
less benefits or HC
benefits
lots more wrongful and discrimnatory dismissals
.
..and so
on
.
..TM7

By the way....my boss is black...makes a lot more than I do...and he's a great guy.  Of course none of the other things you say is true where I work either...but you kind of know that I reckon...nice talking points though. If it were true. I think you guys are living in the past...like 50 years ago maybe.

.
 Not a conspiracy..I was just quoting FOXy News.  BTW FOXy also said average UAW auto worker pay is $59/hour....the only way for you to achieve that pay rate is thru union activity ......so seems not only are you riding the coat tails of organized labor in your reward for working, but also seems management is putting something in your coffee.. .......
......Because If anybody here thinks that wages, age and discriminatory terminations, job security, women's and minorities equal pay, benefits packages, etc are better overall in 'at will' employment compared to organized labor employment...I have a bridge to Manhatten for sale...cheap.
.
.
..TM7

Forget it TM,
It's like talkin to a wall. Some will defend to the end and accept unfair mgmt practices and be happy with the crumbs. Quite a few threads support . Even when faced with the facts and stats, those hear will ignore and debate Corpo MGMT always has the workin guys best interest at heart.

Kinda along the same lines as not believing in Science and how old the earth is. Ostriches.

This was purely a political move back by Koch types.

[Drilling Man]

Hmm well if it's such a good thing why you rammin it through without allowing it put to a referendum so the people of  Michigan can decide for themselves? 

  On the other hand, if the unions are such a good thing, then why are they so worried now?  The people can now choose if they want to join the union, if it's such a good thing, they will!
 
  BTW, the people of Michigan spoke pretty loud when THEY voted down every referendum the unions wanted in the last election!  They spend a LOT of union dues trying to get them pased, the vote wasn't even close!
 
  The unions got waaaaaaay too greedy and now they are paying for it.
 
  DM

[45-70.gov]

how can....in america... 26 states can  mandate you belong to a union to work??


what  do they mean  by  a non-right to work??


how  can a state mandate you support an organization that supports one political party!!


i quit the carpenters union after 12 years  over their support of DEMOCRATS


i  made   MORE money working  no-union anyway ,,,as  i usually rent right into supervision


you mean in some states i either support unions/democrats  or not work??

[scootrd]

2014 is right around the corner.  Good luck to Snyder and legislative body.

Michigan Republicans attached a spending measure to the bll, which means it cannot be undone by referendum. However, unions say that they can still undo the new law by statutory initiative.
Under this approach, would have to file petitions with signatures of registered voters equal to eight percent of the total votes cast in the last gubernatorial election. The legislature would then either enact or reject the petition — presumably the latter. After that, it would go on the ballot for the next general election, in 2014.

Union officials say that the damage might not be so great, because existing contracts and the dues arrangements in them are exempted from the new law. The United Auto Workers contract, for example, is not up again until 2015.



 

[SHOOTALL]

One could almost see the union situation as a micro look at the nation. Those not wanting to be union were forced to support unions in closed shop states much like voters were forced to pay for things like forgin aid , wealfare , HC etc that they didn't wish to support. Now conditions are proving that unions have cost workers more than they have recived and so has the tax payer starting to get taxed for poor management and also not getting benifits from their taxes . The tax payer is seeing others who pay little or nothing getting benifit. An awaking is on the making .

[gypsyman]

Well, he did sign the bill. I'll bet the DNC in Mi. is holding their breath. What'll really hurt the unions, is a couple years from now, when industry picks up in Mi., and they can see how they wasted time and money making such a big deal out of this. gypsyman

[BUGEYE]

Forcing a man to pay union dues to work, is robbery without showing your gun.
If you are a union member is it okay to destroy private property and endanger some old men and women.  please explain how that is different from an organized gang of criminals.
they are guilty of assault on the elderly, and vandalism.

[45-70.gov]

so   you are saying you are against some ones right to work?


or against some ones right to work with out paying a 3d and 4th party?.....taxes and  union dues

[BUGEYE]

so   you are saying you are against some ones right to work?


or against some ones right to work with out paying a 3d and 4th party?.....taxes and  union dues

LOL,  all along I had thought this was a free country... unions are against anyone trying to rise above the rank-and-file, kinda like communism.

[SHOOTALL]

bugeye , that's correct everyone gets paid the same and everyone works at the slowest mans pace .

[Drilling Man]

The thing that inflamed these Michigan union people is that Gov Synder swore he wouldn't sign this right to work bill....then went ahead and signed it....TM7

  Can you show me where HE said that?  All i saw, over and over was him saying that it origionally wasn't on his agenda...  He said, that he had NOT planned to look at it.  Then it did come up, so he looked at it and dealt with it.
 
  I don't care how it got there, now the people have a choise!  Kinda put the thugs back in their place, didn't it??
 
  The unions have cost a LOT of jobs in Mi...  I personally know of several shops that closed down and moved to "right to work" states!
 
  NOW, if they can get those usless union teachers in line, maybe THAT problem will get headed in the RIGHT direction too!!
 
  DM