Author Topic: Thunder Mug handle question. (Read 1220 times)

Doc Brown. · « **on:** December 08, 2012, 09:57:34 AM »

Would it be completely retarded to drill shallow pockets into the side of a thunder mug and slip fit the handle into pockets of JB Weld?

I was border line about to do it last night but since I have never seen or heard of it being done I changed my mind.

moose53 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2012, 10:19:17 AM »

JB weld has its place , but most of my experience with it is fixing more permanently what others have tried to use it on. Its not a substitute for welding

cannonmn · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2012, 01:34:52 PM »

If people could see pix of the mug and handle they'd probably suggest another way to do it, like drill, tap, and bolt, or perhaps welding then grinding. With a thunder mug, at least if I were doing it, I wouldn't be at all worried about drilling a bolt holes top and bottom. Holes are drilled in a lot of cannons for all different reasons, often for sights etc., and it doesn't seem to be safety issue. I'm guessing the practice is ok if the hole is not too huge and if it doesn't go all the way through the wall of the cannon tube, but I'm not smart enough to give you a rule on how much of a hole is too much.

Doc Brown. · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 2012, 03:19:52 PM »

Quote from: cannonmn on December 08, 2012, 01:34:52 PM

If people could see pix of the mug and handle they'd probably suggest another way to do it, like drill, tap, and bolt, or perhaps welding then grinding. With a thunder mug, at least if I were doing it, I wouldn't be at all worried about drilling a bolt holes top and bottom. Holes are drilled in a lot of cannons for all different reasons, often for sights etc., and it doesn't seem to be safety issue. I'm guessing the practice is ok if the hole is not too huge and if it doesn't go all the way through the wall of the cannon tube, but I'm not smart enough to give you a rule on how much of a hole is too much.

I went up to Lowe's and was looking at some kitchen cupboard handles and considering ways to attach them. All of them would have required spacers to give enough room for your hand to get a nice handle on. All of them are made from some kind of nickel plated steel.

I don't mind welding the handle on but I want to do it however would be best.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #4 on:** December 08, 2012, 06:28:33 PM »

I agree with Cannonmn that bolting the handle would be strong and an appropriate way to fasten the handle to the thunder mug. Please see the photo of the large 14 to 16 inch X 4 inch diameter thunder mug Mike and I found at the Fort Ticonderoga Museum on Lake Champlain in eastern New York State in 2007. It was really heavy, 30 to 40 Lbs. of bronze in that beast! Looks like the square head bolts have been replaced since the late 1700s or early 1800s with hex head ones, but we are betting that rivets were not used because there is no impact damage around the four holes in the handle. So now you have a historic precedent for attachment with bolts. See pics.

Tracy

It was a beautiful day in June of 2007 when we visited Fort Ticonderoga on sparkling Lake Champlain. This was the Fort that Ethan Allen and less than 100 "Green Mountain Boys" captured from the British on the night of May 10, 1775 during a bloodless night raid. Surrounded by strategic geographical features, it played a significant role in the French and Indian War and the Revolutionary War.

Quite a chunk of bronze, this thunder mug has a large handle held on by 1/4-20 thd. bolts, at least. The bore is 1.25" dia. One blast from this would put the entire garrison on alert!

Artilleryman · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2012, 03:19:59 AM »

The handle on this mug reminds me of a door handle. I didn't know that they bolted handles on, and I always thought thunder mugs were smaller. Thanks for sharing.

Zulu · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2012, 04:01:48 AM »

Tracy,
That mug is very cool! Thanks for the picture.
Wasn't Benedict Arnold also involved someway in the taking of Fort Ticonderoga?
Zulu

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2012, 04:46:21 AM »

Zulu, Not according to Ethan Allen's account of the capture of Fort Ticonderoga. In reality Arnold was there as an unwelcome patriot leader of a small band of men from Connecticut and a few from Massachusetts. Historians are split about 50/50 on his role, however. Half say it was a joint command agreement and half say Arnold was allowed to come along for the "Fun" by Allen and his Green Mountain Boys!

Tracy

flagman1776 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2012, 05:16:20 AM »

One of my mug firing breech loaders has hemispherical handles welded on... Very difficlt to handle & on my plans to replace them. The other one's handle is elongated so it's possible to set the heavy mug down upright with one hand.
One of my swivels is a half scale replica of one recovered from the lake near Crown Point, North of Ft Ti.

Doc Brown. · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2012, 07:31:23 AM »

Thanks Seacoast for this info. Its very nice to know that this was done before and on such a nice looking mug. Im defiantly going to be trying to find a nice door handle. That thunder mug is awesome. Somehow it looks very fat for only being 4" diameter and so tall.

Double D · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2012, 08:06:15 AM »

Quote from: dockholidaiy on December 09, 2012, 07:31:23 AM

Thanks Seacoast for this info. Its very nice to know that this was done before and on such a nice looking mug. Im defiantly going to be trying to find a nice door handle. That thunder mug is awesome. Somehow it looks very fat for only being 4" diameter and so tall.

As the King of Typos I am reluctant point out the errors of of others along this line. But I need the one above clarified.

Defiantly or definitely?

Doc Brown. · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 2012, 08:16:39 AM »

Quote from: Double D on December 09, 2012, 08:06:15 AM

Quote from: dockholidaiy on December 09, 2012, 07:31:23 AM
Thanks Seacoast for this info. Its very nice to know that this was done before and on such a nice looking mug. Im defiantly going to be trying to find a nice door handle. That thunder mug is awesome. Somehow it looks very fat for only being 4" diameter and so tall.

As the King of Typos I am reluctant point out the errors of of others along this line. But I need the one above clarified.

Defiantly or definitely?

Yes that makes for a funny typo. My spell checker didn't help me with that one. I didn't mean defiantly. I meant definitely.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #12 on:** December 09, 2012, 09:06:53 AM »

I saw that two but figured it could go either way.

Double D · « **Reply #13 on:** December 09, 2012, 02:17:14 PM »

I figured it was definitely definitely, but defiantly was funny.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #14 on:** December 09, 2012, 03:42:58 PM »

Definitely funny,

Cannoneer · « **Reply #15 on:** December 09, 2012, 07:57:48 PM »

Quote from: cannonmn on December 08, 2012, 01:34:52 PM

If people could see pix of the mug and handle they'd probably suggest another way to do it, like drill, tap, and bolt, or perhaps welding then grinding. With a thunder mug, at least if I were doing it, I wouldn't be at all worried about drilling a bolt holes top and bottom. Holes are drilled in a lot of cannons for all different reasons, often for sights etc., and it doesn't seem to be safety issue. I'm guessing the practice is ok if the hole is not too huge and if it doesn't go all the way through the wall of the cannon tube, but I'm not smart enough to give you a rule on how much of a hole is too much.

Are you simply suggesting this method of attaching the handle for a contemporary build, or are you saying this was actually a historic way that handles were attached in the late 18th and early 19th centuries?

Doc Brown. · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2012, 02:41:39 AM »

My thing is just getting away from welds on this. In this picture they look huge but they really aren't as big as they look in pictures. I forgot to scrap that bit of spatter there. Tig welds cost me doe so thats not an option really. I love the idea of bolting a handle on. I can weld flanges on to a nice handle or onto my current handles.

GGaskill · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2012, 11:46:57 AM »

I think your handle looks to small in diameter for the size of the mug. Plus it would be easier on the hand when carrying if it were twice as large.

Victor3 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 11, 2012, 02:37:59 AM »

Quote from: dockholidaiy on December 10, 2012, 02:41:39 AM

My thing is just getting away from welds on this. In this picture they look huge but they really aren't as big as they look in pictures. I forgot to scrap that bit of spatter there. Tig welds cost me doe so thats not an option really. I love the idea of bolting a handle on. I can weld flanges on to a nice handle or onto my current handles.

Wasn't that a lot of work to polish it up (your earlier pic), just to bead blast it?

Doc Brown. · « **Reply #19 on:** December 11, 2012, 04:26:13 AM »

Quote from: Victor3 on December 11, 2012, 02:37:59 AM

Quote from: dockholidaiy on December 10, 2012, 02:41:39 AM
My thing is just getting away from welds on this. In this picture they look huge but they really aren't as big as they look in pictures. I forgot to scrape that bit of spatter there. Tig welds cost me doe so thats not an option really. I love the idea of bolting a handle on. I can weld flanges on to a nice handle or onto my current handles.

Wasn't that a lot of work to polish it up (your earlier pic), just to bead blast it?

This is a different mug all together but it was polished just as nice before it was painted bronze. I went with a oil rubbed bronze so it could pass as a black and not offend those who think a bronze model made from steel is sacrilege. Filing and polishing this takes about 45 minutes. I do it to remove tool marks more than I do it to make it shinny. This was my first mug on a base and I messed up a little bit. I cut off the piece used to chuck it up before I put the base on. It was shrunk on so then I had no way really to chuck it back up and sand off the blue.