Author Topic: One Sad Tradgety (Read 1819 times)

308Win · « **on:** December 09, 2012, 07:30:35 AM »

Didn't know a round was in the chamber,kills Son 7 years old!

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Boy-7-Killed-in-Gun-Store-in-Pennsylvania-313230.shtml

lakota · « **Reply #1 on:** December 09, 2012, 07:36:05 AM »

always check that it is unloaded for yourself. You never know what dim bulb handled the weapon before you.

two-blocked · « **Reply #2 on:** December 09, 2012, 07:48:37 AM »

Loaded or not pay attention to where the gun is pointed.

PS- I feel very sorry for this guy

Brett · « **Reply #3 on:** December 09, 2012, 04:26:59 PM »

There are just 3 simple rules one needs to follow to avoid such a tragedy:

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.
		2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.
		3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use. Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.

A forth and good rule as pointed out by Magooch:

4. ALWAYS Wait then evaluate If something does not sound right or feel right.
If when shooting a weapon a round does not go off when you pull the trigger or the report sounds different than usual wait at least 10 seconds with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction then clear the weapon and check the muzzle for any obstructions.

powderman · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2012, 04:37:00 PM »

BRETT. Good post Sir. There are plenty of liberal democrats here, you probably saved a life or 2. POWDERMAN.

DDZ · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2012, 11:53:35 PM »

I had just read about this in the paper. Yes what a tragedy. I can not imagine the pain the man must be going through. He will have to live with that the rest of his life.
One of my first lessons from Dad, when introduced to firearms was, never have the muzzle pointed at something you wouldn't want to shoot, and as Brett pointed out, always, always make double sure the gun is unloaded when not in use.
How many times do we hear of an accidental shooting, and the gun was thought to be unloaded.

ironglow · « **Reply #6 on:** December 10, 2012, 12:11:24 AM »

Always cautioned in the military and I always repeat often as I teach hunter safety classes;
" Never point your gun at anything you do not intend to kill !!! "
Of course this incident highlights other cardinal rules; "always check your gun"..."never transport losded or with the action closed"..

Anna · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2012, 12:38:14 AM »

I had an old Winchester model 12 go off on me when I was bird hunting years ago. No one was hurt
thank goodness the shot went out into a pond. I didn't know about a pump shotgun a being double
action and I wasn't informed that it could do that. That's where if you continue to hold the trigger
down with each shot and ratchet the pump it will fire each time.

This shows that its a good idea to also know the gun, especially if its a loaner like this one was.
I was told the older Ithaca's will also do that, if your not expecting that it can come as a big
and very dangerous surprise. Slam fires on a semi are also an attention getter. I saw an FNH
f2000 do that out on a shooting range one day when they had first came out. It emptied the mag !
The owner contacted FNH and they picked up the gun immediately for some recall they had going on.
The owner had no control over this once it happened but he did manage to keep it pointed down
range.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2012, 01:19:55 AM »

Quote from: powderman on December 09, 2012, 04:37:00 PM

BRETT. Good post Sir. There are plenty of liberal democrats here, you probably saved a life or 2. POWDERMAN.

I'll bet some of the folks you call liberal democrats killed more deer this year than you, and are better marksman in real life than you are in your internet persona.

Brett · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2012, 02:49:20 AM »

Anna, Good point, it is important to know the operation the weapon as well. And please don't take what I am about to say as a dig against you because it is not meant to be. I just want to point out to you and others that your incident years ago would not have happened if you were following rule No. 2 - Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

As to the other incident you witnessed. Mechanical parts do fail and there is not much we can do about it. Thankfully the gentleman with the defective FNH was following rule No. 1 - Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction - when he racked the slide.

People there are only 3 very simple rules that if followed religiously will avert a tragedy like the one in the OP. Please review them often and practice them without failure as if someones life depends on it - because it just may.

Pray for this man and his family. It's a shame he had to learn this lesson the hard way.

Brett · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2012, 04:34:11 AM »

TM7,

Makes no difference what type/brand of weapon it was. If proper safety protocol was followed the tragedy would have been averted. Period.

Your question falls into to the "this gun is bad" trap that Liberals love to use in order to chip away at our freedom. Liberals have a long list of guns that are "bad" for one reason or another. This one is bad because it has a flash suppressor, that one is bad because it holds more than x number of rounds, etc. let's not ad another to the list because one example killed a 7 year old boy.

The tragedy was caused by human error not the inanimate object.

308Win · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2012, 05:07:35 AM »

Brett,You are so Right,it's apparent the poor Father knew nothing about guns,but what a horrible price too pay for ignorance!

magooch · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2012, 05:43:11 AM »

Okay, as long as we're talking gun safety, let's not forget that there are more than just three rules: When you're shooting and you pull the trigger and all you hear--if you hear anything at all--is a click. Keep the weapon pointed down range and wait at least 10 seconds (30 seconds might be advised), then investigate what happened. It's quite possible that the round was a hang fire, or maybe just a dud, but do not assume either. Eject the round and check to see if the barrel (not just the chamber) is clear. I have had the bullet shoved into the barrel by detonation of only the primer, or a very insufficient load on several occasions. You can imagine what would happen if you jack another round into the chamber and fire it with the bullet part way down the barrel.

Brett · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2012, 05:50:01 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on December 10, 2012, 03:39:27 AM

Did the article say what kind of weapon discharged.....or why and how it discharged. I'm not sure it was a finger pulled the trigger kind of discharge. We do know a round was in the chamber and it fired. Very sad.
.
...TM7

TM7,

With all due respect.

Your question really struck a nerve with me and I can't seem to get it out of my mind. I really don't understand Liberal 'logic' when it comes to the subject of guns.

If the article were about a drunk driver who ran a red light killing his 7 year old boy in a wreck would you question what brand of beer he drank or what make car he was driving? Why question what kind of gun was involved? I'm not trying to flame you or be a jerk I'm really trying to understand the thought process here because the question never would have entered my mind.

Brett · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2012, 06:01:34 AM »

Quote from: magooch on December 10, 2012, 05:43:11 AM

Okay, as long as we're talking gun safety, let's not forget that there are more than just three rules: When you're shooting and you pull the trigger and all you hear--if you hear anything at all--is a click. Keep the weapon pointed down range and wait at least 10 seconds (30 seconds might be advised), then investigate what happened. It's quite possible that the round was a hang fire, or maybe just a dud, but do not assume either. Eject the round and check to see if the barrel (not just the chamber) is clear. I have had the bullet shoved into the barrel by detonation of only the primer, or a very insufficient load on several occasions. You can imagine what would happen if you jack another round into the chamber and fire it with the bullet part way down the barrel.

MAgooch,
Good point and another good reminder. I'll ad that to my first post as follows. No.4 - If something does not sound right or feel right wait then evaluate.

lakota · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2012, 06:26:59 AM »

Quote from: Brett on December 10, 2012, 04:34:11 AM

TM7,

Makes no difference what type/brand of weapon it was. If proper safety protocol was followed the tragedy would have been averted. Period.

Your question falls into to the "this gun is bad" trap that Liberals love to use in order to chip away at our freedom. Liberals have a long list of guns that are "bad" for one reason or another. This one is bad because it has a flash suppressor, that one is bad because it holds more than x number of rounds, etc. let's not ad another to the list because one example killed a 7 year old boy.

The tragedy was caused by human error not the inanimate object.

Good point. For all we know it could have been a freak accident, million to one chance hit with a pellet gun that killed the kid.

bulletstuffer · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2012, 07:45:33 AM »

This story though very tragic makes no sense. First, if the father went into the gun store to sell the handgun the guy behind the counter would have surely opened the action to see if it was loaded. Second, why would the gun not be in a case coming or going from the shop? Third, did the dad have the gun in his hand with the finger on the trigger pointed at the child while he was backing up? If that were the case it goes beyond stupidity.

It seems like there is a lot more to this story.

Bulletstuffer

AtlLaw · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2012, 08:04:46 AM »

Quote from: bulletstuffer on December 10, 2012, 07:45:33 AM

This story though very tragic makes no sense. ... It seems like there is a lot more to this story.

Without a doubt. $:-\$ Now, I don't read the newspaper or watch the news, but my wife does. And she tells me everything I need to know...

Anyway, when she told me about this she said "I knew it was Twigg's as soon as I saw it!"

For years we would stop by Ms. Twigg's place every time we were in PA. Kathie is from that area BTW. I've bought a bunch of stuff from her including guns and watched her handle firearms I don't know how many times. If someone handed her a firearm I'd be willing to bet she checked to see if it was loaded. $:-\$

But that is a minor point compared to the tragedy of this incident...

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2012, 08:12:38 AM »

AtlLaw , I was thinking that maybe the guy was reloading his gun in the car as he backed out and had a brain fart and pulled the trigger or maybe dropped it. Who knows but tragic dosen't seem to cover it I can't imagine the pain .

Brett · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2012, 08:14:39 AM »

Not to diminish from the sadness of this families tragic loss in any way. But it will be interesting to see if the family, their lawyers and insurance company and of course the Liberal media will attempt to fix the blame on the gun manufacturer and or the gun dealer when the father's negligence is the only real issue here.

scootrd · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2012, 08:24:01 AM »

What role does politics have in anything to do with this story.
what on earth would compel someone to interject a silly political slant into such a tragic story?

lakota · « **Reply #21 on:** December 10, 2012, 08:34:55 AM »

Quote from: scootrd on December 10, 2012, 08:24:01 AM

What role does politics have in anything to do with this story.
what on earth would compel someone to interject a silly political slant into such a tragic story?

It is a tragic story and it wont be long before the liberal vultures circling overhead land on the tragedy and use it to call for more gun control. It happens everytime something sensless like this happens. There is no denying they shamelessly use any sensless tragedy to further their agenda
Everytime something like this happens liberals come out of the woodwork blaming the gun, the gun dealer, the ammunition, the gun manufacturer, the ammo manufacturer, they point fingers and place blame everywhere except where the blame truly shoud go and that is on the guy who pulled the trigger. Guns dont shoot people by themselves, cars dont start up and put themselves into gear and run people over by themselves. An inanimate object cant do something without first being activated by a man.

Brett · « **Reply #22 on:** December 10, 2012, 09:38:31 AM »

Sorry TM7 I just can not agree with most of your response with this one notable exception and I quote: "Fact is there was some kind of operator error...".

The guy was responsible for being in control of that weapon period. Does not matter if it fell of the seat, got caught in a seat belt or his cloths, etc. He should have taken the appropriate cautions so that none of these things would have happened.

The gun should not have been loaded or if it was his CCW it should have been secured in an appropriate holster which covered the trigger. The weapon should definitely not been within his child's reach. None of this has any bearing what so ever on what type/make gun it was. No gun, I don't care what kind or brand, goes off by it's self.

Anna · « **Reply #23 on:** December 10, 2012, 01:39:45 PM »

Quote from: Brett on December 10, 2012, 02:49:20 AM

Anna, Good point, it is important to know the operation the weapon as well. And please don't take what I am about to say as a dig against you because it is not meant to be. I just want to point out to you and others that your incident years ago would not have happened if you were following rule No. 2 - Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

As to the other incident you witnessed. Mechanical parts do fail and there is not much we can do about it. Thankfully the gentleman with the defective FNH was following rule No. 1 - Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction - when he racked the slide.

People there are only 3 very simple rules that if followed religiously will avert a tragedy like the one in the OP. Please review them often and practice them without failure as if someones life depends on it - because it just may.

Pray for this man and his family. It's a shame he had to learn this lesson the hard way.

That's ok Brett no offense taken, and your right me bad. I was young and had just came back to the
US. But I did learn my lesson, not only did it scare the crap out of me. It tossed me on my behind
into a mud puddle . My hair is very thick and I was washing and combing nasty black mud out of it
for two hours while my brothers teased me.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 10, 2012, 02:00:50 PM »

the ten commandments of gun safety:

#1 always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Brett · « **Reply #25 on:** December 12, 2012, 11:31:43 AM »

TM7,

Sorry I may have over reacted to your question. However, you have to admit that you have a history of stirring the pot on this Forum.

Reading between the lines I'm guessing that the boy was shot with a hand gun of some type.

from the article: "Apparently, the father was in the store to sell a hand gun, which, for some reason, he could not do. As he was backing out of the parking lot, his gun accidentally went off, hitting the boy in the chest and killing him on the spot."

The article does not mention any other guns being present besides the hand gun the father tried to sell.

None of this changes the fact that if all the proper gun handling safety measures were followed the boy would still be alive.

ironglow · « **Reply #26 on:** December 12, 2012, 04:07:36 PM »

Often where we (the local "good old boys" have coffee each morning, somebody decides to show the group his gun. This is at a large trucking co.. The regulars are gun conscious (2 of us hunter safety instructors)..but occasionally one of the truckers will bring his gun in from his pickup. Most are also safety conscious..but now and then, someone doesn't keep his gun in a safe direction..I can sense the shuuders..
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
My grandson, the gunsmith..has a small slogan over his work bench which says;

" The two worst sounds for a gunsmith are;
#2) When it is supposed to go "bang"..but instead, goes "click".
and...
#1) When it is supposed to go "click"..but instead, goes "bang"..

mechanic · « **Reply #27 on:** December 12, 2012, 04:15:57 PM »

My Dad was as knowledgeable about guns as anyone I've known, and he had a 45 ACP discharge accidentally once...yep it was operator error, he let the hammer spur slip out of his grip...BUT he had the gun pointed straight up when it happened...not at someone.

Ben

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #28 on:** December 13, 2012, 02:03:22 AM »

The Colt 1911 style pistol is one of the most dangerous pistols ever made . The operator/shooter must have extreme caution and knowlege of its manual of arms . They must have present of mind while handling it. It can have a very light trigger and it has a very short lock time . Once the safety is off and the grip safety depressed there is little movement needed to make it go bang. And that is what makes it dangerous but -
THIS IS WHY IT IS ONE OF THE BEST IF NOT THE BEST COMBAT HANDGUNS EVER INVENTED.

Brett · « **Reply #29 on:** December 13, 2012, 02:45:00 AM »

Mechanic,

Glad to hear your dad was practicing the 1st Rule of Gun Safety (muzzle always pointed in a safe direction) when he had his slip and no one was hurt. Sometimes thumbs slip, sometimes mechanical safeties fail... that is why the No.1 Rule is the most important to follow.

Shootall,

Funny isn't it that the 1911 design with both a grip safety and thumb safety is considered by some to be more dangerous than say a GLOCK, S&W M&P and many others which can have neither depending on the model.