Old Colt Special Police - Jacketed ammunition?

[mannyrock]

Hey Guys,
 
    I'm not a handgun guy, but at the gunshow last week a man had an old Colt Police Revolver, made around 1934, and as I remember it, it was a Colt Special Police, 2nd issue.   It was only in about 50% blued condition (honest overall holster wear), but it locked up and operated like a bank vault.  Very tight, no rattle and no play.   Looking down the barrel, I could see  a bit of rust or erosion, but not much.  It was in .38 Special.  It was probably carried by a police officer for 30 years, and only fired once a year for qualifications.
 
    We started talking about the weak old 158 grain lead roundnose in .38 police special, and I mentioned that about the only use for the old Colt would be to keep it in a bedstand, with modern .38 factory ammo, 158 grain hollow point or soft point jacketed bullets, or other really good self defense bullets.
 
   He said that you couldn't do that.  That it would unsafe (or unwise) to shoot modern jacketed ammuntion in the old Colt, and that you would have to use the old lead round nose that it was designed for.   He couldn't explain why, but I didn't want to argue with him.
 
    Anyone have any ideas about this?   I thought that modern factory 158 grain .38 Specials, jacketed or not, are loaded to the same pressures as the original .38 specials of the 1930s. 
 
   Thanks for any comments.
 
Mannyrock
 
   

[FPH]

Just load up some low pressure wad cutters if you are concerned.

[spruce]

I'm sure you're already aware .38+P ammo should never be used in the older Colts, nor even in the later model Detective Specials (per Colt).
 
That said, I would have no qualms about shooting standard pressure jacketed bullets in it.  An option if someone were concerned about jacketed bullets would be the 158 gr. SWCHP lead loads as made by Winchester, and perhaps others.  I believe Win. makes them in both +P and standard pressure versions.  These are a distinct improvement over the LRN loads.

[Mike in Virginia]

I'm not too sure about the +P thing in old Colts.  No, they weren't designated for +P, but that's because there was no such thing at the time.  But I think they are plenty strong.  I never heard of one coming apart from stout loads. 
Concerning jacket bullets, they won't know the difference.  The jacket wouldn't wear on anythin but the barrel, and I don't believe the barrels of the old Colts are of inferior steel. 

[gcrank1]

Somewhere I have info on the steel..........somewhere (if I find it I will post it).
Agree that +P is a NO, but jacketed non-+ will be fine. Colt's used some of the best metallurgy of its day especially compared to the competition, as well as tighter bore dimensions and a faster twist in the 38Spl. I suspect the model you saw was the Official Police; for sure, one of the best. Before that model was introduced it was the Army Special.

[wolverine_1]

Could also be a Police Positive Special.  I don't hesitate to shoot std. .38 Specials in mine or in my Officers Models either.

[gcrank1]

Yes it could be, and in that one FOR SURE DO NOT SHOOT +P's. Ive handled several that are shot loose (what a shame).
FWIW, the Army Special/Official Police are about the size of the S&W K series, the Police, Police Positive and Police Pos. Spl. are a smaller frame gun; ie, more of a .32 cal. frame.

[wolverine_1]

Agree, no P+ in older Colts or others, by the way.

[Mike in Virginia]

I have to say that being afraid to use +P in the old all steel Colts is only opinion.  It's the opinion of known authorities and gun writers, but anyone can have an opinion.  +P is nothing more than a designation that came along after the old Colts were made.  NOTHING has been shown or proven about stronger ammunition in the old guns.  If anything, the old Colts were over built, with solid steel, to handle a lifetime of shooting.   
 
Some of the bogus information is based on not using hot modern loads in the Colt Peacemaker, which is one of the weakest weapons ever made, referring to it's ability to withstand anything stronger than full blackpowder ammo. 
 
I think the shooting public got caught up in the incorrect hype concerning +P .38 loads.  If the Colt Police revolver could be fitted with a .357 chambering, it would handle it very well. 
 
That said, the aluminum frame Cobras, etc. that came along before +P ammo, were not even strong enough to handle continued regular loads.  I had a Colt Diamondback, bought new before +P was ever heard of, and shot it and shot it handloads much more potent than the common +P.  Then when +P arrived, I used that.  When I let that gun go, it was still tight. 
 
The same thin applies to the Detective Special. 
 
When Charter Arms came out with the "smallest and lightest" .38 revolver," I put +P loads in it, jacketed 158 grains.  It did not get loose. 
 
Remember SuperVel?  The fastest .38 Spl. loading ever commercially developed?  They harnessed more pressure than the later +P's.  SuperVel was the forerunner of +P, but because no one called it +P, it was deemed okay in any .38, and it was okay. 
 
A S&W Model 10 is an S&W Model 10.  It didn't get beefed up when +P ammo came out, but lots of people stuffed the cylinders with the new more powerful stuff. 
 
Lest we lose perspective, a .38 at any power setting is still a weak round.  It sits in the realm of the 9mm.  I don't know of any old pre-+P era 9mm that cannot tolerate +P fodder. 
 
Before I get blasted for saying the .38 and 9mm are weak, I mean relatively.  I carry both, and believe in both, and I put +P in both. 
 
Ruger's LC9 warns against +P+, but says +P is okay.  That's because the LC9 is a "little" gun.  It ain't a Beretta.  But a full frame Colt Police .38 is a full frame gun made out of real steel.  You can't put enough powder into a .38 case to damage it.     

[gcrank1]

The metallurgy of the Official police model was really good, and from the reports Ive read it was better by a smidge than that of S&W (oh,oh, now Ive started it.....) of the same vintage, but the Colt's heat treating was changed on the 357 model and subsequent models that take that cartridge. If I can find that reference material I will post it.
FWIW we have a 1932 O.P. 38Spl. that was my wife's father's as a career LEO and it is OK, but not the tightest anymore. The bulk of its wear and tear was from him pre 1969 as my loads have all been mild cast bullet reloads, and not all that many either. I am not even sure if +P designated existed pre '69, though, IIRC, the S&W 38/44 'Heavy Duty', later 'Outdoorsman', circa 1930, had a heavier load available, the 38Spl. High Speed,  and it was very likely used by many LEO's of the day. About 1931 Colt's said theirs could handle that load; perhaps that is why ours is 'worn'?
And the lighter framed Police positive was never intended to take the then 'High Speed' loads. Ive seen quite a number of them that were 'shot loose', WAY loose.
To add confusion, modern factory loads seem to be downloaded from those old loads, perhaps in deference to the aging metallurgy?
The driving caveat is, as always, shoot the proper ammunition for the gun as designated on it, it will be safe and the gun will last.