Right to work in Michigan! Wow!

[Conan The Librarian]

I never thought I'd see Michigan become a right to work state. There may be hope for it yet.
 
But I still would not want to live there. The whole state seems really run down, even Upper Penninsula. If I did live there, I'd rent instead of own, that's for sure.

[jhm]

     Right to work,  WHERE there are NO real jobs avail. in Michigan!!   Maaybe in a few years some will move into the state but for now you will still see signs NOT HIRING.  Jim

[Conan The Librarian]

Yeah, really! I can't imagine what it's going to take to turn things around there. I wonder if Ohio is next. Indiana went Right To Work, and it made a big, positive difference for them. Essentially, they took a lot of Michigan's former business away from them.

[magooch]

Seems to me that Michiganders have already spoken--via the ballot--on the first steps to turning things around.  Apparently they've decided that liberalism wasn't the right direction.

[Conan The Librarian]

It seems so weird that this could even happen. The news this morning said that the unions were up in arms because this was done as a midnight legislation by the republicans. I didn't know there were republicans in Michigan. It seems to me that anyone with conservative leanings would have been gone long ago.

[magooch]

Well, everyone knows that only libs are allowed to do midnight legislation--whatever that is.

[ironglow]

    ..But they still have to deal with union barbarism..
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VTPo1PC54A
 
   PMSNBC.. Says the union was "set up"....
      ...I wonder how those Americans For Prosperity folks in the tent convinced the union thugs to cut their tent with knives, hurl curses and racial slurs and trap handicapped individuals under the tent?

[SHOOTALL]

I would tell you IG but it's not my job man the stewart would send me back to the hall if I did 

[KIMBER45]

Time will tell. We will see how big business takes care of it's employees without unions.

[Cuts Crooked]

Time will tell. We will see how big business takes care of it's employees without unions.

Yup! We will! They've been awfully good to employees in my state, which is "right to work". I don't imagine they will be any different there.

[SHOOTALL]

Better yet we will see how unions take care of their people when they are not the only show in town.

[BUGEYE]

    ..But they still have to deal with union barbarism..
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VTPo1PC54A
 
   PMSNBC.. Says the union was "set up"....
      ...I wonder how those Americans For Prosperity folks in the tent convinced the union thugs to cut their tent with knives, hurl curses and racial slurs and trap handicapped individuals under the tent?

These are the guys that will slash your tires and commit drive-by shootings if you attempt to work without paying union extortion.  nice bunch of guys.

[Casull]

Time will tell. We will see how big business takes care of it's employees without unions.

 
 
 
Now, wait a second.  Unions have not been outlawed.  They simply can't require EVERY employee to pay union dues against their will.  So, are you saying that the unions won't try to help their member UNLESS they can extort EVERYONE to pay union dues?

[kshantz]

There are actually a lot of conservative people in Michigan, and many, like myself, were told that if we wanted to have a job, we had to join a union that supports politicians we despise. Northern Michigan is rural and mainly conservative, without the votes to compete with the liberal, industrialized south.
The unions cut their own throat by driving industry out of the dungheaps called Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, etcetera, and a lot of people who voted Democrat every election left.
Well guess what? Republicans took over the state legislature and elected a Governor who didn't have his nose up the UAW's backside. The Right To Work legislation wasn't passed like a thief in the night. I beleive it was broad daylight.

[Conan The Librarian]

Kshantz,


Very interesting! I didn't know that.


What do you think the future is for Michigan? Do you think industry there can rebound and compete again?


I didn't realize the north was conservative, but my experiences in the north have only been on UP near Houghton and northward. I got the impression it was very union friendly and democrat even though I don't think I ever talked politics much.

[ironglow]

Time will tell. We will see how big business takes care of it's employees without unions.

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   The answer is already obvious:  http://blogs.automotive.com/uaw-and-why-honda-and-toyota-workers-are-not-interested-1478.html#axzz2EtZ7sUMl
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
...And before you start in...The Toyota Camry is the "most American" car made today..
       http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/07/toyota-camry-beats-ford-f-150-as-most-american-made/1
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      I have worked both union and non-union, the only real difference was that the union forced me to be in effect, LAZY.  If I got caught up with my task, I couldn't do other things..such as clean the shop or do a job of some other "job description".  Sorry; but it is my belief that if my employer hires me to work 8 hours @ $XX.00 per hour, I owe him 8 hours work..not 6 working and 2 loafing!,        Before I retired, I worked for a "Fortune 500" company..often union thugs would be waiting by the drive on the way out with brochures, trying to get us to join them..   Perhaps 2 out of 500 on my shift accepted their toilet paper..the other 498 told them what they could do with their toilet paper..
 
 

[kshantz]

Conan, I honestly don't know. We still have a skilled workforce. If Snyder can make it attractive for businesses to come here they probably will. I just hope that if they do, that workforce will remember that companies aren't in business to provide jobs, but to generate profit.
I can't speak of Houghton because I've never been there, but isn't it a college town? Their usually more liberal. I live on the other end of the U.P.

[Victor3]

 Lemme get this straight... Some people in this country actually gained a tiny bit of freedom back? Must be some mistake. 


 Hopefully it's a trend. Few weeks back a bunch of workers here in CA at LAX told their union to stuff it; they wanted to take what they felt was a better deal directly from their employer.


 My company employs ~60,000 people in the US and ~25% of the facilities are union. Since 2008, four have closed. All union shops. Fact is, all things considered it costs ~30% more for a company to operate a union facility over non-union in the US. Folks in our factory are made aware of the risks of the place going union. No threats; just simple reality due to shrinking margins and competition for market share.


 I was associated with unions (UAW, IAM, ILWU, UTLA) for decades and learned their game. They could care less about workers' rights. 25 years ago while contemplating a vote to strike, my IAM union steward told me "we're gonna show management who's in charge." I guess we showed 'em alright.... Within a year most of the factory buildings were converted to warehouses and ~2800 of us were out the door.


 As Rush recently said about Hostess, "Ding Dong, your jobs are gone."

[ironglow]

Lemme get this straight... Some people in this country actually gained a tiny bit of freedom back? Must be some mistake. 


 Hopefully it's a trend. Few weeks back a bunch of workers here in CA at LAX told their union to stuff it; they wanted to take what they felt was a better deal directly from their employer.


 My company employs ~60,000 people in the US and ~25% of the facilities are union. Since 2008, four have closed. All union shops. Fact is, all things considered it costs ~30% more for a company to operate a union facility over non-union in the US. Folks in our factory are made aware of the risks of the place going union. No threats; just simple reality due to shrinking margins and competition for market share.


 I was associated with unions (UAW, IAM, ILWU, UTLA) for decades and learned their game. They could care less about workers' rights. 25 years ago while contemplating a vote to strike, my IAM union steward told me "we're gonna show management who's in charge." I guess we showed 'em alright.... Within a year most of the factory buildings were converted to warehouses and ~2800 of us were out the door.


 As Rush recently said about Hostess, "Ding Dong, your jobs are gone."

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  They continue to play that old, worn.."us versus them" caper..
     ....The same game Obama pulled upon the more brain-dead half of the voters.....
    That game is wearing thin with the more alert people;  let's hope more wake up before the country is destroyed..

[Victor3]

Time will tell. We will see how big business takes care of it's employees without unions.

 
 
 
Now, wait a second.  Unions have not been outlawed.  They simply can't require EVERY employee to pay union dues against their will.  So, are you saying that the unions won't try to help their member UNLESS they can extort EVERYONE to pay union dues?

 Forget about representation if you're not paying into the protection racket. I guarantee you, if these unions know who is and who isn't paying dues they'll make sure that non-paying members are persecuted.

[williamlayton]

Unions are not gone and unions are free to exist.
Unions did a great job in getting the workers organized to get fair share wages when plants were nothing more than sweatshops and workers were fodder.
One of the nations largest construction companies, Brown & Root, is in Texas and those employees are still some of the lowest paid construction workers in the nation.
If the large companies return to sweat shop mentality, it will give the people the  right to organize.
The problem is, that if they try and organize they can be fired without recourse and "scabs" can be hired to replace them.
Now, I am both pro & con labor--it is a two edged sword.
Last word on this is be very cautious what you pray for---you might get it. 
Time changes--people.
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

Unions are not gone and unions are free to exist.
Unions did a great job in getting the workers organized to get fair share wages when plants were nothing more than sweatshops and workers were fodder.would add they brought safety to the work place in many jobs
One of the nations largest construction companies, Brown & Root, is in Texas and those employees are still some of the lowest paid construction workers in the nation. In Va. B&R paid some of the highest wages .
If the large companies return to sweat shop mentality, it will give the people the  right to organize.
The problem is, that if they try and organize they can be fired without recourse and "scabs" can be hired to replace them.Harder to do than one might think the labor board in Va. is very pro employee (as it should be ) but it gets abused when agends pop up.
Now, I am both pro & con labor--it is a two edged sword.In todays world finding good workers is vert hard . It would be stupid to abuse a trained work force if you can build one.
Last word on this is be very cautious what you pray for---you might get it. 
Time changes--people.
Blessings

In todays world govt takes on the protection aspect of unions in many states actually reducing the need for unions to protect workers . That makes their usefulness more toward pay and benifits . That makes most see unions only taking from the company not contributing to the over all relationship between company and employee.

[BUGEYE]

I worked for delta airlines for thirty years, and during those years, dialog with management was friendly and courteous.  we didn't need a hateful mouth-piece.
In this day and time, it seems that unions aggravate management instead of having rapport with them like we did.

[SHOOTALL]

I worked for delta airlines for thirty years, and during those years, dialog with management was friendly and courteous.  we didn't need a hateful mouth-piece.
In this day and time, it seems that unions aggravate management instead of having rapport with them like we did.

lets face facts when times are good and unions get what they want workers are happy. When times get hard unions do often accept less or give back they continue to want more . Not all but many do.

[Swift One]

Indiana went Right To Work, and it made a big, positive difference for them. Essentially, they took a lot of Michigan's former business away from them.

I think my state (IN) did the right thing telling the Unions to go to h&ll.  What I would really like to see is the unions removed from the steel mills.  That is the biggest joke I have ever seen or heard.  I have freinds that are union workers at the mills.  It is simply mind boggling how unions work there. Unions wrere needed back in the early 1900s when the labor laws were a hot mess.  However, the unions are now nothing more than thugs and shysters that try and get over in which way they can.

[SHOOTALL]

I worked for delta airlines for thirty years, and during those years, dialog with management was friendly and courteous.  we didn't need a hateful mouth-piece.
In this day and time, it seems that unions aggravate management instead of having rapport with them like we did.

lets face facts when times are good and unions get what they want workers are happy. When times get hard unions do often accept less or give back they continue to want more . Not all but many do.

.
This blanket statement is simply not true....many times unions aquiesce.It is very true you must have not read thru. as my last ..statement addresses that ..This was brought out in the Hostess thread finally...My wife was in a union of state workers,,,very often the State would not approve contracts often for years at a time. She would work at old rate...when contract was approved all they got was a small check in place of retroactive pay ... later the union agreed to give back payed workdays to help meet State budget criteria. HC costs got shifted more and more to the employee, etc. So proper unions do compromise...Synder did not compromise_ _he pulled the rug out from under the unions.
.
How did he do this.....?  First, he claimed the right to work issue was too divisive and he had more important things to deal with, so Labor worked with and believed him.  Then the Michigan GOPers come up with this right to work bill, which has hidden emergency powers that essentially bust unions by ending collective bargaining and financial obligations....So Synder proved to be a union busert afterall,,,like Walker, and a very sneaky one at that. Unionist are going to be very pissed off in Michigan at this trick...
.
Another fact is that labor-unions have a history of dealing with violence and meeting violence with violence.  When push comes to shove,,,they sometimes think push back is necessary....when dealing with guys like Synder they may be right.
.
...TM7

TM you need to face facts like education,  unions have become big business and like what you claim about other business they also become corrupt .

[SHOOTALL]

TM you need to face facts like education,  unions have become big business and like what you claim about other business they also become corrupt .

.
Not denying that, and I admit these white collar teacher unions and the police-fire unions are the most ardent and inflexible unions around.,,,,and some union heirarchy seem to be plants sent by management.  We have one forum memebr here who claims to have been a shop steward, but you couldn't tell from his anti-union posts.
.
.
.TM7

With regard to education I was talking about colleges and the cost etc. it is big business these days . Hey on that one we might be on the same side. 

[SHOOTALL]

Hey I worked on jobs where only the stewart could start equipment . They had a dozen fork lifts and 24 mixing machines . The guy took his time for sure.

[powderman]

[BUGEYE]

Now that's funny, funny but true.