Author Topic: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!  (Read 1285 times)

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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2012, 10:39:19 AM »
I find the irony in this situation to be delicious. After all the work done in the GM bailout:
1) Robbing the creditors to pay the UAW
2) Upsetting US bankruptcy law and process with a "managed bankruptcy" that favored the UAW
 
...the end result is probably more harm to the UAW than anyone ever imagined possible.
 

Offline briarpatch

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2012, 11:20:15 AM »
I would guess most everyone here has worked for unions, Managed workers that were union, had to share jobs with the union, etc. I would also guess most were left with a bad taste in their mouths concerning unions.
The biggest display of what a union leaves with people who have worked for them was a job I was on, trying to go union, all the former union members lead a charge and stomped the measure.
I also got a good laugh when I have had the union file a grievence on me and me non union.
There are a lot of kooks on non union jobs but the brain washing of unions take union workers to a whole new level at least those I have delt with.
Right to work does not remove unions but it puts them on notice competition is alive.


Offline ironglow

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2012, 12:33:39 PM »
      Whether for sales, promotion, job contract,learning or almost anything in life... honest and genuine competition improves everything..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline clum sum

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2012, 12:44:31 PM »
Right on, now We need Honest and Genuine Competion in politics but don't hold your breath.
A man's hand shake is his bond.
                     Joe R. Risley Jr.

Offline KIMBER45

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2012, 02:35:07 PM »
Just wonder how fair it is for those who are non union to get the same pay and benefits that those who belong to a union get. Before you start throwing stones- I'm referring to the gains the employees received because of the union. The union members pay dues while the non- union don't. The union does the bargaining and the nonunion get the same package.
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
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Offline briarpatch

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2012, 08:45:55 PM »
When you talk to workers there are reasons they dont pay dues. Many times it is because the unions screwed them or tried to. They voted to get the union in and got screwed, a lot of times because they voted against dems openly. So yes they deserve the same pay and benifits but you can be sure the union gets back.
How fair is it for me to keep up a bunch of lazy welfare getters that are able to work and want, from taxes that are taken from my check without concent. 

Offline Victor3

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2012, 11:45:59 PM »
Just wonder how fair it is for those who are non union to get the same pay and benefits that those who belong to a union get.


 Probably about as "fair" as it is for a union to collect dues from a member they have suspended from membership.  ;)


 A tidbit from the UAW's constitution...


Article 31, Section 12.
[/size]
[/size][/b][/size]A member who is under suspension from membership, including a temporary suspension, shall be required to pay all dues during the period of suspension.


http://www.1-888-no-union.com/uawconstitution.html
[/size][/font]
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2012, 02:57:10 AM »
Just wonder how fair it is for those who are non union to get the same pay and benefits that those who belong to a union get.


 Probably about as "fair" as it is for a union to collect dues from a member they have suspended from membership.  ;)


 A tidbit from the UAW's constitution...


Article 31, Section 12.

A member who is under suspension from membership, including a temporary suspension, shall be required to pay all dues during the period of suspension.


http://www.1-888-no-union.com/uawconstitution.html

Or allow non union workers to buy a book and go to work with out going thru. the union trade school or serving an apprintanceship. Keep in mind this where all that BS about how they are better / safet workers is suppose to take place.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2012, 03:51:06 AM »
I don't think it's going to work that way. This is going to break the unions in that state, as it has elsewhere. There are lots of ways to learn a trade, and almost none of them today involve a union apprenticeship. Those days are long past.

Offline magooch

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2012, 04:32:56 AM »
Unions come in all flavors.  I belonged to a union for more than 37 years and overall it did a pretty good job, but it had its ups and downs--depending on who got elected to the leadership and who participated at union meetings and business.  Our union was a very democratic union where the members had exclusive say about who was elected and what the union did.  The biggest problem was that when things were good, very few members would attend meetings and too often, the radicals and Democrats would worm their way into power and try to use the union as an extension for their political aspirations.  And what I absolutely always fought was their penchant to use the union treasury as a slush fund for the Dumycrat Party.
I was very active in the union throughout my working career, but for the last dozen, or so years when I reached a position where my job was more in the nature of supervision, some people in union leadership were not so sympathetic and I would say they were resentful.  For the most part, these were younger folks who had gained a position of authority in the union and their attitude was that anyone who was "friendly" with management was not all that welcome in the union.  This was really dumb, because the position I and a few others held was bargained and mandated by the union contract.  I guess to be fair, some in the union envisioned the job mostly in terms of the pay level and maybe never thought much about the responsibilities the company would impose on the job.  In short, my job and others who held similar positions was a gray area.  We were not management, but we were supervisors and as such, we spent a lot of time in the office and at management meetings, etc. and to the rank and file workers, we were just too close to the enemy.  That's not to say that I ever considered management to be the enemy, but I will admit that during labor disputes at times it seemed that way.  I always kept in mind that I worked for and was hired by the company and not the union.
I do not live in a "right to work" state, but even so, no one can be forced to join a union.  However, they are forced to pay a fee to remain employed at a business where a union contract is in force.  That fee goes to the union to cover the expense of bargaining and enforcing the contract.  For those employees who are union members and oppose political expenditures, their portion is refundable upon request.  While I was a member, I always got a refund and a few others did likewise, because I absolutely would never support nor vote for a Dumycrat--ever.  As near as I could tell, at least 40 percent of the membership was of like-mind.
It was always my observation that any business that didn't want a union around, could easily avoid it by treating their employees with respect and fairness.  On the other hand, there is a symbiotic relationship with unions and management in some aspects.  There will always be cases where some employees are very highly skilled and essential to the operation and because a union contract invariably dictates absolute pay rates, these employees are not able to separately bargain for the pay that might otherwise be incumbent with their individual skill level.  Fortunately, the company I worked for recognized this glitch and while they enjoyed in many cases how they were the beneficiary, they also found a way to reward exceptional performance.
Swingem

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2012, 05:00:28 AM »
  There will always be cases where some employees are very highly skilled and essential to the operation and because a union contract invariably dictates absolute pay rates, these employees are not able to separately bargain for the pay that might otherwise be incumbent with their individual skill level.  Fortunately, the company I worked for recognized this glitch and while they enjoyed in many cases how they were the beneficiary, they also found a way to reward exceptional performance.
Unionism= communism.  everyone making the same.  I'm glad your company saw fit to reward hard work and inventivness.
My company was great to me for thirty years.  non-union of course.
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Offline Casull

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2012, 02:11:13 PM »
Quote
Just wonder how fair it is for those who are non union to get the same pay and benefits that those who belong to a union get.

 
 
If they're doing the same job/work, then I'd say it was completely fair.  Wouldn't you?
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Offline KIMBER45

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2012, 02:23:01 PM »
Quote
Just wonder how fair it is for those who are non union to get the same pay and benefits that those who belong to a union get.

 
 
If they're doing the same job/work, then I'd say it was completely fair.  Wouldn't you?
I know what you are saying. Just as women should get the same pay as men for doing the same job. I agree with that. The only question I have is if the non union benefit because of the union. I worked in a place where people had their choice as to whether they wanted to join the union or not. 2 nonunion persons were always going to the union representative to complain about their [ non union] treatment and working conditions.  I wonder what would happen if the nonunion had to negotiate their own contracts. That would make things very interesting.
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
-----------------
Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
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Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
-------

-------

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2012, 03:49:19 AM »
of course you assume the union provides a benifit in the first place where some may disagree . ;)
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Offline Savage .250

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2012, 04:48:38 AM »
Most of the recent auto plants built in the US have been in the south.   There must be a good reason.   
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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Right to work in Michigan! Wow!
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2012, 05:04:30 AM »
There are several reasons. The Japanese and the Germans are expanding into the US. The US makers are expanding abroad. One side effect of this is that a lot of "Japanese" cars have more US components and manufacturing effort than many "American" cars.
 
The irony is that Henry Ford would probably have approved of these developments because he was nearly obsessed with improving his supply and manufacturing methods. The idea that a car could have its engine built in a country that's good at building engines, and have it assembled in another country that's good at assembly is very consistent with Henry Ford's vision. So is breaking unions-- he was aggressively anti-union. So it looks like things have come full circle, with Henry Ford's ideas leading the way again.