35 Whelen Twist Rate

[Dinny]

Would a 1:14" twist rate be versatile for a 35 Whelen? I would like to shoot 200-250gr bullets.

Thanks, Dinny

[336SC]

Dinny, I have two Whelens.  My 700 Classic has the 1:16 twist and my ER Shaw barreled Sav 110 has the 1:14 twist.  Both shoot equally
well with bullet from 200 thru 250gr.  I only tried 250gr RN Hornady's in both so don't know how a 250gr Spitzer would perform.  I have 250gr Spitzers but have not tried them yet because of how great the 250gr RN bullet shot.  The Sierra 225gr shoots great in both as does
the 220gr Speer Hot Core.  I killed a deer with the Classic and the 225gr Ballistic Tip.  At the shot he flipped backwards thru the air as he
was looking directly at me from an uphill angle.  Been killing most of my deer with the 358 Win and a 200gr RN bullet @ 2400fps.  You have
to see how they perform to believe it.  Just absolutely awesome.
336SC

[AtlLaw]

Been killing most of my deer with the 358 Win and a 200gr RN bullet @ 2400fps.

You talking Remington Core-Lokt here 336SC?   
 
Like 336SC says Dinny, the Rem700 35 Whelen is 'spose to be 1 in 16.  I've never shot anything but 200 and 225 gr. bullets outa mine and was worried that the twist might not be fast enough for the 250 grainers.      But, as I remember, most folk here say the 1 in 16 shoots the 250's just fine.
 
I think the 1 in 14 would do well also, but what do I know... 

[Dinny]

I believe my 356 is a 1:14" twist and it seems to like the 225s and 250s, but thought I would ask since the Whelen's velocity is higher.

Thanks, Dinny

[facetious]

In the 2012  Hodgdon manual the .35 Whelen  is a 1:16 but the .358 Winchester is a 1:12 . Why so much of a difference ?

[336SC]

AtlLaw,  I used both HDY and RPRNCL 200 grainers.  Both worked spectacularly but the 200gr RPCLRN was just a little more gentle on the
eating parts @ 2400fps.


facetious, Winchester introduced the .358 Win with a 1:12 twist as that twist rate is great for 200 and 250 grain factory loads introduced by Winchester along with the cartridge.  I believe, and this is only speculation on my part, that when Remington introduced the .35 Whelen
as a factory standard cartridge, they had barrel blanks in their warehouse already rifled with the 1:16 twist as used in the .35 Remington.[size=78%] Or they still had rifling machinery still on hand set up for the 1:16" twist.  The 1:16 twist is better suited to the .35 Remington with the heaviest factory load being the standard 200gr RN (other than Buffalo Bore 220gr loads).

336SC[/size]

[AtlLaw]

RPRNCL 200 grainers.  Both worked spectacularly but the 200gr RPCLRN was just a little more gentle on the eating parts @ 2400fps.

A while back I was working up a .358 load using 180 gr Speers, and for some unknown reason I also loaded 3 rounds with Rem. 200 gr. RN bullets.  After settling on a 180 gr. hunting load for the 358, I fired the 3 - 200 grainers.  They landed in a nice little group that made ANY other load I'd tried in that rifle look sick!     Someday I'm gonna work some more with them!   

Winchester introduced the .358 Win with a 1:12 twist as that twist rate is great for 200 and 250 grain factory loads ...  The 1:16 twist is better suited to the .35 Remington with the heaviest factory load being the standard 200gr RN ...

That sounds reasonable to me.      And there always has been a range of rates for the 35 cal.  see http://www.deltagunshop.com/clearwater_reboring/factory_twist_rates.html
All in all I'd like a little faster twist then 1 in 16 for my Whelen so I would be happy with a 1 in 14.  Hi-ebber, and day always be a hi-ebber,     since I seriously doubt that I will ever need even a 225 gr bullet for the Whelen in what remains of my lifetime, the 1 in 16 will do...     nicely...     thank you very much!   

[Dinny]

Richard,
  Thanks for the link. I think I will do fine with a 1:14".

Thanks, Dinny

[RevJim]

 My 700 Classic has the 1/16" twist and it has always worked swell with the 200X and now the 200TTSX, but I also get great accuracy with the heavies. I'm sure that the faster speeds I get out its Ackley Improved case help. I haven't measured it, but my SILs mauser must have a faster twist. I bought that rifle from a gunshop, used, and it had a Douglas bbl in .358 Win. Since it was a Mod 98 action, I had my smith open it up to the 35 Whelen AI, using the same reamer he did on my rifle. At any rate, it shoots the Nosler 225 Accubond into bug holes too. In all likelihood, his has the faster twist used in most .358s.
 I saw a dramatic difference in a Mod 1895 that was bobbed to 20", but was an older 1/38" twist (I think) and an older Mod 444, also with the 1/38. I could get neither to handle the 300+ gr cast bullets at the slow speeds I wanted ( say 1600 or so) at high speeds it shot them like a benchrest gun but both kicked the living snot out of me! I am way past enjoying that sort of thing, ha. I sold both. I think a faster twist makes a lot of sense for smaller case rounds, i.e. the .358 and for, of course, the lighter bullets most use ( and which work well indeed) the 35 Whelen for. I've killed a lot of elk sized game with the 200X, but also with the older 250X out of my 1/16". maybe my rifle is just a great one! ( which I believe it is, it has spoiled me to where it is my only bonafide personal favorite, ha. ) Good luck to you Pard. Oh yea, my above SIL shot a button buck over Thanksgiving up in Pennsylvania with his cousins Mod 336 .35 Remington and the 200 Corlokt. Perfection, ha.

[336SC]

Forgot to mention that I have three .358 Winchesters.  A rechambered 760 Remington pump with the 1:16 twist, a semi-custom job on a short action Model 700 with an ER Shaw barrel and tuned action and it's twist rate is 1:14.  My latest .358 is the Ruger Hawkeye blued with wood stock and it's twist rate is 1:12.  I've been playing with Ramshot TAC powder in my Ruger Hawkeye and the short actioned 700.
I've been getting 200gr bullets to chronograph @ near 2700fps, 220/225gr bullets @ 2525fps, and the big deadly HDY 250gr RN @ 2400fps.  My best group to date has been with the HDY 200gr Flex Tip bullet @ 2651fps.  Second best group was with those nasty 250gr
HDY RN bullets @ 2400fps.  Both of those loads exceed the velocities achieved with factory loads as shot in my .35 Whelen 700 Classic!
Granted, my handloads in the .35 Whelen handily beat those top end .358 Win loads, but TAC sure made my .358 Winchesters come alive.
With those TAC handloads in my .358's, there is nothing that comes to mind that I would be afraid to tackle, whether it bites back or not!
I don't run my normal deer loads that hot as our Pennsylvania Whitetails don't need that much killing power.  My .358 deer loads run between 2400 and 2500fps.  My 760 pump is a 1979 carbine with 18.5" barrel that started out as a .35 Remington.  A .358 Win reamer was run into it without any other modifications and voila, it's one fine scrub brush hunting tool and 200yd shots are not impossible with it.
336SC