At least 26 dead in Connecticut-'

[BUGEYE]

There's too many cases of the mentally ill being released by their shrink with a handful of prescriptions and they're expected take their meds and be good boys and girls.  they don't always do it.
plus the shrinks are falling down on the job by not reporting to the proper agency.   
the instant background check doesn't work if these people are not on that list.

[powderman]

Another example of folks without God in their lives. Our children need to know that no amt of regulations, rules or laws can prevent andbody from doing evil if they are so inclined. The stabbing of 20 +  students in China is a good example that the evil doer is to blame, not the object used to do the deed. Take your kids to Church, teach them about Jesus. POWDERMAN. 

[Mxpe78a]

I will go out on a limb and predict that those that knew this boy will say he had problems. I also suspect he was under doctors care and took prescription drugs for depression/mental problems. That is the common thing these monsters have in common, but the media never talks about.

[Anna]

There's too many cases of the mentally ill being released by their shrink with a handful of prescriptions and they're expected take their meds and be good boys and girls.  they don't always do it.
plus the shrinks are falling down on the job by not reporting to the proper agency.   
the instant background check doesn't work if these people are not on that list.

Personally I would like to see a full and truthful coroners report including finding any trace elements    in the dead shooters blood . I would like to see that in all these cases where a nut case shoots up
a place. It's funny how that info is never available to the medical community after some of these
freaks even kill themselves. Like with the complete loser who didn't have a penny to his name.

Yet seems to come up with some of the most expensive firearms money can buy and shoots up a
mall then kills himself ??  Hay GOV, why can't we see what was in these guys blood stream
that may have caused them to do this ! And where did they get the money to buy these guns and
all the ammo they have on them ? They are usually coward losers who haven't the guts to                  do much in their lives much less put a round into their own heads. Dead loser weirdos tell no tails,
but a blood sample from one of them could speak volumes. And we do not hand someone like this
a handful of pills your information is wrong.

Any prescription strong enough to do anything that could have side effects like this is very limited.
Own top of that it is never administered without the patient being in a padded cell! Get real,we
are not willy nilly drug peddlers who could care less about the consequences of our actions !
Saying that is like saying the pilot of the airplane is immune to the crash, it just does not work like
that thank you .
 

[twoshooter]

Read the Bible, read the entire history of mankind, look at the newspaper (or online), look at the best selling books and movies. Tragedies HAPPEN. Whether it was Herrod killing Jewish firstborn, to Hitler trying to kill them all, from the Europeans trying to exterminate the Indians through smallpox and decimating the buffalo, mankind has killed. We are a predatory species, not herbivores . In truth, we are actually lucky things are not worse. In Syria they are preparing for wholesale slaughter by poison gas.
     We CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT prevent all tragic acts of evil. They WILL happen again. We CAN: Create better security at schools, improve mental health care access, realize that the current political and cultural climate creates stressors that overload the weak and those with borderline coping skills, teach increasing tolerance and respect- not for any particular idea, but for the right to HOLD that opinion and the values that support it. That will make a difference- not fool proof- just better. 

[magooch]

In the interest of not letting a crisis go to waste; you take a mind twisted for any number of possible reasons and add to it a national non-leadership that has no problem with such things as the legal killing of a baby right out of the womb, sacrificing four Americans to foreign murdering terrorists and not lifting a finger to prevent it and generally destroying our country before our eyes with unspeakable perversions and economic disasters and it sets a tone.  It sets a tone and we haven't seen anything yet.

[kennyd]

You can bet on a assault rifle ban, hi cap mag ban, "safe" storage laws, waiting periods, maybe even having a license.  If anything is taxed it will be guns or more probably ammo.  Then just how many cops can you put everywhere, and how many doors can you keep locked?


Mental health care in particular is lacking in the US, and even when it is available it is seen as something to be shamed of.  It should be in the same category as things like heart care.  The quick and easy answer is always some pill.  I do know I have wierder dreams when I take any cold meds, and I usually take only half or third doses as I know my own tolerance (or lack of).


What we will not see is firearms education, (not making anyone use them, but just KNOW about them.


IF:  We could have better connection for people to nature through hunting (and fishing) like a lot remember from their earlier times living in small towns, or on farms, it would take some of the mystery from guns.
We definitely need more ranges so people can have a safe place to shoot, and importantly get mentoring and guidance from competent sane gun owners.  The same would also help identify problem gun users.  "My" range is full, has a waiting list, and does not offer any public days or reach out much to the surrounding area.  The same goes for the others around.


What I fear most is the gradual camels nose under the tent affect.  My single shot rifle, revolver, and musket will be farther down the list than a AK or such, and a hi cap semi auto, so some of us will not worry enough about what is being done to someone else.


The founding fathers wrote the 2nd meaning that the average man could own a weapon equal to what the best armies have.  It doesn't matter that they didn't envision repeaters, smokeless, machine guns--the best at that time was the Brown Bess.

[magooch]

The very first order of education should be for our yutes to be taught about the reasons for our Constitution and what liberty is all about and how they should think long and hard about allowing do-gooder politicians and light weight liberals mindlessly to dispatch our hard fought for freedoms for some imagined security and sanity.

[Anna]

Why wasnt a guard at the door like we see at state and federal office buildings ? That would make
a lot more sense than disarming law abiding citizens. I mean this freak could have walked in with
an illegal hand grenade if he was willing to kill himself also like terrorist do in the Middle East.
This entire event will become agenda driven you watch. And why have things like this become more
frequent on Obamas watch than at any other time ?

[Bob Riebe]

Why wasnt a guard at the door like we see at state and federal office buildings ?

That is the penalty of living in a fee society.
The alternative was written about in the book 1984, and we are on our way to being like the book.

[streak]

Good points Anna!
 Over the last few years, here in Colorado, we have unfortunately had our share of similiar tragedies. And for the most part what was the common denominator for most of these people that committed these crimes? Mental illness and meds and drugs!!
You could make this a gunless society, but the problem would still be there. Just do a little research and you will see where knives, dynamite,etc. has been used for mass killings. In 1927 a guy blew up a school with dynamite and killed 38.
And I am sure some scumbags out there are already planning another incident, maybe without guns but bombs, hand grenades, lethal gas, poison, booby traps, etc.
There are those out there that are just plain mean and bent on mayham, others as mentioned above suffer from mental disorders and drug related issues. We as a society should start with more attention to detecting mental illness in people and trying to remedy that problem and see if that might resolve and prevent some of these tragedies.

[northkid]

It was a sad day for the country today. Prayers out to the families, involved an the ones who have passed.

[northkid]

Schizophrenia and bi-polar doesn't show up in people until their early 20's.  Ridlin might also be a problem.  This needs to be studied.  I believe ANYONE who has ADD, or is diagnoised with any type of mental disorder, should be put on the no gun list.  The doctors should be required to report anyone on medications or has these type of mental disorders should not be allowd to buy a gun.

If that is the case ANYONE who is prescribed ANY medication should be put on a no gun buy list. Almost all medication can change the bodies chemical balances, the really bad ones are known as side effects.

[Victor3]

 Well, one thing to do is get the side effects of these psyche meds out in the open....its criminal that these shooters are on psyche meds and it always gets covered up..Psyche meds kill people...

 Now they haven't come out and said this guy was on psyche meds, yet...and probably will cover up that fact.
TM7

 I'm seeing just the opposite recently. A major common denominator has been revealed to be psych meds in many of these incidents in the past few years. One example being the theater shooter a few months back.


 Check out what happens to some folks who've taken Ambien; a quick google will reveal hundreds of stories. My Wife was on it briefly, until she woke up one night yelling at me that "THE CAT STOLE MY KEYS AND TOOK THE CAR!"


 A gentleman on another forum I visit recently shared how his Brother fired a handgun in his home and then took his own life while on Ambien (while under a doctor's care, BTW). A totally unexpected, horrible tragedy.


 And Ambien isn't even considered to be a "psych" med, just a "sleep aid." Phooey.


 The most common antidepressants (those in the SSRI category, like Prozac) have been linked to much higher suicide rates among teens, yet it took decades for the FDA to finally require a warning about it. This class of drugs is handed out to women who are stressed out about the dishes piling up and men who have chest pain that can't be diagnosed as something physical. And not many doctors feel they're being over-prescribed?


 Many of these psych drugs by themselves are little understood by the so-called experts, yet some doctors dole out cocktails containing several of them and just hope for the best.


 Don't let the medical or pharmaceutical gurus fool you; the human brain is still largely a mysterious black box that doctors are experimenting with, often to the detriment of the owner and anyone subjected to the drugged-up person's delusions and hallucinations.

[Victor3]

Schizophrenia and bi-polar doesn't show up in people until their early 20's.  Ridlin might also be a problem.  This needs to be studied.  I believe ANYONE who has ADD, or is diagnoised with any type of mental disorder, should be put on the no gun list.  The doctors should be required to report anyone on medications or has these type of mental disorders should not be allowd to buy a gun.

 Although I see it as a possible slippery slope that could end up denying a high percentage of the US population from ever owning a gun, there's a move afoot to modify the language of ATF Form 4473 (Firearms Transaction Record Part I - Over the Counter).


 Currently, Section 11-f of the form asks the transferee:


 "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective......or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"


 "Adjudicated" basically (as far as 4473 goes) means being "judged to be," as in a court of law.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf


Proposed language would replace "adjudicated (legal proceeding)" with "determined to be (doctor's opinion)" and drop the mental institution wording.


 This kind of language would obviously keep a lot of mentally defective people from purchasing firearms, but I can see how it could be abused to the point where if one had ever been diagnosed with a minor, temporary emotional problem at some point in their lives, they would forever be denied a firearm purchase.


 So be careful what you wish for...

[Anna]

In the old days this sociopath would have been put in a cell and watched very closely. As a sociopath
somewhere down the line he had to have shown evidence of this, but in today's PC world we are
not allowed to hurt his tender feelings. Or alienate him from his family or society until after he has
done something. That's like telling soldiers to not fire on the enemy until fired upon.
And back in those days you did not see massive parts of society being put away, you only saw those
that a group of Doctors had all verifyed the patient had a serious societal problem.
It isn't about the drugs, its about tieing a Doctors hands to where they can not do their job.

These drugs should only be used in a controlled environment and not in any social settings at all.
We can talk all day, but until these PC procedures change this is what we get. It isn't the guns, Ted
Bundy didn't use a gun, son of Sam did. And both of these killers had numerous incidences where
a Doctor wanted them to stay locked up. Take away the guns they will use a sword,take away the
sword they will use a knife, take away the knife they will use their hands. There is no difference
in killing 26 people all at once or killing that many people over a period of time. They are all still
dead, no matter what was used to kill them.



What I am trying to show here us these things have been agenda driven for a long time now.
And they happen all of the time, this one only had a high gruesome body count. Get theGovernment
out of the way and let the Doctors do thier jobs !

[guzzijohn]

Cuts in mental health care started in the late 70s or early 80s and is even accelerating in recent times.



 
 
 
 
 Report cites steep decline of mental health funding in Kansas
 0 | Mental Health
 

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   By Bryan Thompson
Kansas Public Radio
 Nov. 10, 2011
 
 
 
 Audio clip KPR story: Report cites steep decline of mental health funding in Kansas  Listen to Audio Clip
 
A new report from a mental health advocacy group said Kansas is one of the states with the deepest cuts in mental health spending.  Only seven states and the District of Columbia had sharper reductions over the past four years.
 
 Document State Mental Health Cuts
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  The report from NAMI — the National Alliance on Mental Illness — said state general fund spending for mental health services in Kansas dropped by more than $14 million during the 2009 to 2012 fiscal years. NAMI-Kansas Executive Director Rick Cagan said if you look back six years, instead of just four, mental health cuts in Kansas total more than $38 million.
“The downward trend continues, and we’re actually among a group of 10 states that’s leading the way to the bottom and putting our citizens at risk at a time when the need for mental health services is on the rise," Cagan said.
He said the cuts would have been even deeper if not for the efforts of state lawmakers.
“We came in with proposals from the governor’s budget to reduce another $15 million in spending at the beginning of this year, and all of those funds were restored,” Cagan said.
He said Kansas needs to provide a stable funding mechanism for mental health services in good times and bad.
States Making Biggest Cuts To Mental Health
Here are the 10 states making the biggest percentage cuts to their mental health budgets:
• Kentucky 47.5%
• Alaska 35%
• South Carolina 22.7%
• Arizona 22.7%
• Wisconsin 22.4%
• Nevada 17.3%
• Kansas 16.4%
• California 16.3%
• Illinois 15.1%
• Mississippi 14.7%
Washington D.C. also was high on the list, with a 19.1 percent cut.
 

[ironglow]

  First off;  It's not the guns!
 
*******************************************************************************
     It would seem that some here are  ready to write off a good portion of their constitutional rights.  That would bbe a huge mistake ..to give them up so easily.  Do you really think the antis would give up if they gota ban on ARs and 14 round handgun magazines?  Of couyrse not..by giving in to part of their demands you would just be making it easier for them to get the rest!
       Again..it's not the guns..   And I am perhaps operating with a longer "memory base" than many here.  Guns have always been around in America..nothing new there..as far back as I can recall, everybody inmy neighborhood had guns..and much larger families.
  Still, there was not near as much violence and certainly I cannot recall any mass murders ever being reported.  Murder  was in fact, a very rare occurance.
       So, if guns were always available... what is different ?   Here's a list of what is different over the last 4 decades..take your choice:
1) As Magooch pointed out, life itself was greatly cheapened in 1973, by Roe vs Wade.
2) Divorce always hurts the children..it seems as though nobody ever asks the children if it is OK for Dad and Mom to divorce.  The incidence of divorce has arisen exponentially since the 1960s
3) TM had a very valid point..drugs..ridlin etc are murderous..the has been a huge rise in the use of drugs in the last 4 decades..both legal and illegal drugs.
4) In very recent years even entertainment has taken upon itself a murderous cast..vampires, werewolves and zombies are very popular fare.  Likely, a kid on mind bending drugs could convince himself he was shooting "zombies".
5) popular songs celebrate murder, mistreating women and highlights other vices.
6) Some video games seem to promote the thirst for mayhem..some seem to portray exactly this kind of activity, to the point where a confused young mind may consider such an act as "normal" or "cool"..
7) The last 40 years has seen a great movement away from Godly values, towartd a selfish, self-centered "me-ism".  Many have forgotten what common morals and values are. For some, respect for God and for others is a non-starter.
The controlling factor of "shame" seems to be of no effect anymore.  Young people often boast about sleazy activities which would have  young people of 4 decades ago..mortified in shame.
 
   I could go on and on..but that is my $.02

[Brett]

What the media, the politicians and a good portion of the general public don't recognize or won't accept is that this unhinged idiot could just as easily have used his mother's car to run over and kill those kids on the playground when they were out for recess. 

And had he done that I doubt anyone would call for more restrictions on automobiles.

Pray for the families, the town and those who lost friends and school mates.  This is going to leave a very deep scar that may never heal for some.   

[KIMBER45]

It's upsetting to read so many here discussing gun control issues  and so few discussing the real tragedy of the shootings- the students, teachers, and relatives.Sad very sad.

[ironglow]

   Again; it's not the guns!  Guns have always been available in the USA.. yet these mass sghootings are of the last couple decades. It is obviously a moral & cultural issue...
  Being ready to give up some of our constitutional rights ("assault weapons" and hi cap magazines) is ridiculous...  Does anyone here actually believe the antis will be content if we forfeit just some of our second amendment rights?  Certainly not!  They will take whatever they can get for free..then fight for the remainder.
  That would be like having a football game and giving the opponent 3 free touchdowns before the game even begins..
 
   Just imagine if there were no  guns on hand ...what could this suicidal screwball do with a 20 lb can of propane and a pack of matches?

[magooch]

Right you are, Brett.  Imagine how much mayhem one could generate with a big rig tractor.  If the panty wetters get their way, virtually everything will have to be banned.
 
Kimber, I'm sad for our country, because it once was a fantastic country with everyone going about their business and enjoying life to its fullest.  Today we are confronted with politicians who can't decide whether to tax us to death, or spoil us with handouts.  Everyday it seems we're being threatened with the loss of another freedom and our leaders can't even agree to stop illegal invaders from changing our country to something we don't even recognize.
 
I am very sad for the victims and families of this latest horror, but I will not allow myself to get in a funk over it, because in the big picture, our whole country is in imminent jeopardy.  We can't afford to be distracted by this kind of terrible aberation while the entire future of our country is hanging by a very slender thread.  Bad stuff happens everyday and it's about time that our leaders do something good--like stop the fiscal hemorrhaging.

[powderman]

   

[Brett]

It's upsetting to read so many here discussing gun control issues  and so few discussing the real tragedy of the shootings- the students, teachers, and relatives.Sad very sad.

First of all what would you like us to say that we have not already said?  We have all acknowledged  that this was a horrific event.  We have sent out prayers to the families.   

The next natural course is to examine the causes.  Broken families,  the turning away from religion,  the cheapening of human life,  violence in our entertainment, and of course since this is a outdoor/gun forum gun control.   

[Varmint Hunter]

Sadly enough, as a country, we have done this to ourselves. No religion in our schools, the mention of God often being prohibited, govts that disallow the signs of religious holidays on public property, removal of the ten commandments from courthouses, the words "in God we trust" being removed from every where, prayer being banned in schools or public places.

Instead, "our rights" allow for the glorification of violence everywhere, human carnage to be displayed everywhere - movies - TV - videos, all accessible by our children. We live in a culture of violence and it has nothing to do with firearms. Ted Bundy slaughtered over 30 innocent young co-eds over the period of several years. He never fired a single shot. O.J. didn't either.

President Obama can pass all the restrictive gun laws he wants and we will only see further escalation of the violence. Will they ever wake up?

[lakota]

President Obama can pass all the restrictive gun laws he wants and we will only see further escalation of the violence. Will they ever wake up?

No they will never wake up. There are way too many naive people who believe that prohibiting private firearms is just the catalyst needed for the creation of a magic kingdom where violence, war and poverty and hunger will no longer exist.

[yellowtail3]

Schizophrenia and bi-polar doesn't show up in people until their early 20's.  Ridlin might also be a problem.

They fed me Ritalin when I was in grade school/jr high; I was a 'hyperactive' kid (that meant, I was a boy). Don't give the gun-grabbers ammo to come get me with...

[DDZ]

It's upsetting to read so many here discussing gun control issues  and so few discussing the real tragedy of the shootings- the students, teachers, and relatives.Sad very sad.

We are all saddened my this, but many here see the media and politicians using this tragedy to force their agenda of more useless gun laws. Also many here see the gun free zones as a reason this kind of stuff happens. I'm betting that if teachers were able to carry a firearm, or the principle was able to keep a shotgun in his office, this kind of cowardly acts would not happen. At least the damage would be not as severe.
I read that all kinds of police and swat teams raced to the scene. What good did they do? They did nothing at all to stop 27 people from being murdered. Its like it always is the shooting is over by the time the calvary gets there. Just think if some common sense was used anymore. We like to trust teachers to educate our children, but can't trust them to have a firearm on the job. As long as we think its better to keep schools as gun free zones these kind of tragedies are going to happen.

Just because some are not talking about the teachers and kids getting shot, does not mean they are not deeply saddened by this.           

[scootrd]

Dearest God ,
Why would you allow this to happen in our schools?.

My dearest child , I am so very very sorry.
I am not allowed in classrooms anymore.

Food for thought

Semper Fi

 

[Anna]

Dearest God ,
Why would you allow this to happen in our schools?.

My dearest child , I am so very very sorry.
I am not allowed in classrooms anymore.

Food for thought

Semper Fi

 

It isn't that God is not within the classroom. God moves within the heart and soul. Things like this
happen because of our doing plain and simple.God has given us the word and the will down through the ages to shape our own destiny. It's about free will it always has been, God did not step in and
stop Eve from eating the apple. He warned her and Adam about doing that and they did it anyway.
Free will, you come to him and his son of your own accord. Only evil forces anything down your
throat once you let it. God just turns his back on you for that and let's you deal with the other guy
for awhile if that's the way you want it.

Now how cool is that ? God was there to quickly ease the pain and suffering of these children who
were under the age of accountability. And you can bet every single one of them are near him now
as he comports their parents in their grief. We did this, we allowed it to happen, all through time mankind has done things like this. Because if we spent half the time with God that we spend
hurting each other none of this would be a factor. If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and
buy one ! Does that sound like God wants his people to be unable to defend themselves ?

Be it known that living your life as a Christian never meant you had to park your brain. And brothers
and sisters it is the same ones that will be screaming about the cruelty of this event. That have no
problem with the widespread murder of children in the womb on a scale that pales this by
any comparison . Is a life that's only six years old any different than one is at conception? And who
made these funky comparisons that cost so many lives? The three stooges of the holy alter of man?
You don't think God is very upset about this,because he is. But he has watched us slaughter each
other for thousands of years with everything from a rock, to a nuke. It isn't the gun, its the finger
behind it and how we have made things within ourselves that did this.



We treat God and Jesus more like custodians, who we expect to clean up after our messes. Or as
our foresight police department who should stop things like this before they happen. Or we blame
an inanimate object which is as stupid as saying the devil made him do it. Because we as a society are to good and to smart to ever be wrong. Now only Obama will know what to do, just like he fixed
our healthcare.