At least 26 dead in Connecticut-'

[scootrd]

I have thought long and hard about this.  Every modern day mass murderer like this is in their late teens or early 20's.  This guy had a record of problems with the school and his mother.  My thinking is if some kid shows signs of problems, the school should be required to report this to the FBI to have them put on a no buy list.

  ..... I have mixed feelings regarding this, I keep flip flopping with my own internal debate.
 

The second thing is there should be some armed teachers in every school.  Or an off duty police officer, or retired police officer should be at the school.  We put air marshalls on every plane.

Absolutely agree.

Schools should have locked doors with buzzers if they are opened, except for recess or outside activities.

Schools have been moving in this direction for quite some time now.
 

Schizophrenia an bi-polar disorders always show up in the late teens to early 20's.  Don't know what can be done about this, except require this information to be turned over to the local sheriffs department or FBI to put them on the no buy. For some reason, there are always signs, but noone does anything about it.  How about making it a law for this stuff to be reported ASAP before something bad happens. 

 ...again mixed feeling regarding this proposition.
Having personally taken care of paranoid Schizophrenic family member for quite a number of years I understand what your suggesting to be accomplished in the end.  However DATABASES can be used inappropriately and abused for unintended purpose once data has been collected and have far reaching implications and consequences outside of your topic point.   But your post does offer points of discussion. Obviously changes of some sort need to be discussed and weighed.


One point that shouldn't get lost in this discussion (though it may be too soon to interject politics into this discussion)
is I hope this emphasizes Teachers are one of our first line of defense. Anyone today who STILL thinks thay get paid too much in salary and benefits.. well just remember not only these fallen hero's but also every teacher everyday that place themselves in harms way to protect and shield our communities children from evil and who demonstrate time and time again their willingness to pay the ultimate price to protect innocents we place in their charge.

Semper Fi

[Swift One]

The problem with expulsion for bullying is as follows:
Bullying has been in school for years. The one year expulsion could lead to some serious high school drop outs. In my day, I had an issue with a bully for a minute. I never thought however taking a gun into school and shooting him. It ended with a fight in which I lost. But the bully stopped messing with me. He moved on And looked for a target that wasn't going to stand up for themselves. Kids need to be taught to take care of their problems. Not take their problems out on innocent people.  The class bully has its place in teaching a young person to stand up for themselves

[scootrd]

The problem with expulsion for bullying is as follows:
It ended with a fight in which I lost. But the bully stopped messing with me. He moved on And looked for a target that wasn't going to stand up for themselves.

yep.. Funny how bullies / wife abuser etc ,, tend to do just that. 

I have faced unfortunately many experiences just as you pointed , Net result , win lose or Draw. Bullies always move on when they come up against someone who is not going to be intimidated by their BS.  most are just overcompensating cowards when you peel back the onion.

[Dixie Dude]

Another good idea I heard on Glen Beck this morning on the radio.  Have teachers wear a fanny pack at all times with pepper spray and a taser.  When this guy was confronted, he could have been tasered and pepper sprayed.  You need 2-30 minutes before police arrive.  Having doors like banks with hardened locks, glass with wire in it so it is not easy to break open.  Having magnetic locks.  I am willing to have a 1% national sales tax on guns and ammo to pay for some of these items, or to have armed guards at schools, like off duty police officers, retired police officers, or some security company personell, if we can keep our gun liberties. 
 
If the government is supposed to protect us and if they want sheep, then the above things have to be done.  However, schools are government buildings, and they can't protect children in them says something about our government, and they have air marshalls on EVERY plane.  Haven't had any more hijacked planes. 

[streak]

Don`t know if fanny pack with taser and pepper spray is such a good idea! Range is limited and any body intending to shoot people would probably shoot a person with a fanny pack right off the bat! To be effective you would certainly be putting yourself in a very dangerous position at that range and should the BG see a taser or pepper spray in your hand you are toast!!

[Dixie Dude]

When this guy shot open the school door, the principal, a counselor, and a teacher confronted him and got shot.  If they had sprayed him with a distance sprayer (like bear spray) that might have stopped him.  A taser might not have worked with body armor, but will a taser work on legs or the groin area?  Having a buzzer or special bell ring or buz all over the school for an intruder, would notify ALL teachers to lock their classroom doors, take kids to a special room (good for tornados also) and lock it.  Locks would be hardened to be bullet proof. 
 
Schools should have safe rooms anyway for bad weather, bomb threats, intruders.  Safe rooms should have a small bathroom, and water.  Intruders would probably be neutralised by cops within 30 minutes or so anyways.  Tornados would pass over in the same length of time.
 
I recommended a fanny pack, but a belt with a loose shirt like nurses use, to hide spray or a taser.  Having armed teachers or an armed guard or two or more depending on the school size would go a long way to detering this from happening again.  Air marshalls seems to have worked. 

[45-70.gov]

I am willing to pay a 1% national sales tax on guns and ammo to pay for this and keep my gun freedoms.

I like your ideas, except that I would make it a local sales tax dedicated to hiring those retired and off-duty cops.
and I would add that any kid who bullies another kid because he/she is a little different, the bully should be expelled for the year.

we already pay 11%....pitman robertson act
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2001/pittman-robertson-act-friend-of-the-hu.aspx

[nw_hunter]

I see so many on here wanting to turn to the Federal Government to help prevent these crimes.They have done such a wonderful job in the war on drugs and keeping our borders secure for Americans haven't they?
I think laws on the books already at the federal level have had a negative effect. Why would we want to add to the problem? These things should be addressed at the state and local levels IMO!

Most of our troubled youths  that commit crimes like this and others come from homes with one parent.Boy's especially need a strong father figure to raise them properly.There was a time when people stayed married! If for no other reason (The children).

[Anna]

All I see coming from our government anymore is them devising new ways to make our lives more
difficult. They do nothing to very little to improve our lives, but do everything to make our lives
worse. It's become a dodge the gov game, things you once did with no problems are now illegal.
I saw three NM State police today giving tickets within a 10 mile stretch. And they tell us this is for
the protection of the public and not for revenue enhancement ?

[streak]

nw-hunter and Anna!
Great posts!!

[SHOOTALL]

There is no way to enforce a law that will keep people from killing another person. The most restricted and watched community is jail. AND THERE ARE STILL MURDERS ! Get over it we will not stop it even if we give up our freedoms. We should demand and vote for those who will give us back our rights to carry weapons at all times. We must be responsible for our and our families safety. Those who wish to not take responsiblity for their own safety can choose not to but don't cowar and expect the rest of us to follow.

[Dixie Dude]

They determined in Alabama this weekend, that it would take $220 million a year to put armed guards at all schools in the state.  That translates to about $44 per person in Alabama or $160 per family.  I think it is worth it, but having some armed teachers would help.  I guy with a sword and some pipe bombs could have done the same damage without guns.  A bomb to blow the door open and what's to stop him after than without armed guard or teachers.  It would take a police officer about 2-20 minutes on average to get there.  No gun laws are going to stop an insane person.  Only more armed people especially teachers.  Hardening the doors and windows, electronic surveylance and buzzers if a door opens from the inside.  Lots of ways to help secure schools without gun control. 
 
Watch for a return of the assault weapons ban, 10 round mags, and this time probably limited ammo sales. 

[tobster]

"

There is no way to enforce a law that will keep people from killing another person. The most restricted and watched community is jail. AND THERE ARE STILL MURDERS ! Get over it we will not stop it even if we give up our freedoms. We should demand and vote for those who will give us back our rights to carry weapons at all times. We must be responsible for our and our families safety. Those who wish to not take responsiblity for their own safety can choose not to but don't cowar and expect the rest of us to follow.

"
               I agree 100 %.  Making something illegal doesn't prevent it. Murder is illegal. Does that stop it? Why would more gun laws change anything?

[SHOOTALL]

As for protecting schools or any other event with children we should be allowed to help. How ? any one who wants to and has the time should be allowed to be on duty at a school . Those who have training with not only weapons but with what is lawful could start now others could get training. Maybe it could be encouraged by giving vehicle reg. free to those who vol. a certian number of times a year.
 Govt. cannot change things but if enough citizend get involved we can slow down the bad times. Maybe movie theaters could offer a deal for citizen guards , new meaning to watch programs. Laws would have to be altered to support such a stand by citizens .

[45-70.gov]

They determined in Alabama this weekend, that it would take $220 million a year to put armed guards at all schools in the state.  That translates to about $44 per person in Alabama or $160 per family.  I think it is worth it, but having some armed teachers would help.  I guy with a sword and some pipe bombs could have done the same damage without guns.  A bomb to blow the door open and what's to stop him after than without armed guard or teachers.  It would take a police officer about 2-20 minutes on average to get there.  No gun laws are going to stop an insane person.  Only more armed people especially teachers.  Hardening the doors and windows, electronic surveylance and buzzers if a door opens from the inside.  Lots of ways to help secure schools without gun control. 
 
Watch for a return of the assault weapons ban, 10 round mags, and this time probably limited ammo sales.

how much would it cost the tax payers
if the government just got out of the way
and allowed INDIVIDUAL teachers decide if they want to be armed
sorry...this concept promotes INDIVIDUALISM


like the arguement to arm pilots
''WE'' arm them  or ''WE'' forbid them to arm themselves...once again no INDIVIDUALISM


focusing on the specifics of stopping another act 'like this from ever happening again''
will  only leave people vulnerable when the next nut finds another way to ''express himself''
focus  on the school  and the next nut will hit the school bus
how many can you take out with a car at some festival!!....or football game....or blockbuster movie


the only thing that makes sense  is be aware of your surroundings  and get over the paranoia
many  people pose a bigger threat to themselves than any one else
set a good example to all children....and listen to them......
.they might be the next nut.....but then they might just appreciate you listening

[BUGEYE]

As for protecting schools or any other event with children we should be allowed to help. How ? any one who wants to and has the time should be allowed to be on duty at a school . Those who have training with not only weapons but with what is lawful could start now others could get training. Maybe it could be encouraged by giving vehicle reg. free to those who vol. a certian number of times a year.
 Govt. cannot change things but if enough citizend get involved we can slow down the bad times. Maybe movie theaters could offer a deal for citizen guards , new meaning to watch programs. Laws would have to be altered to support such a stand by citizens .

good post.    about all I can do is sit, but I would volunteer to sit in the lobby of my wifes school with a shotgun and my faithful S&W.
however, practical solutions don't work in this country any more.  so I'll sit at home and pray that my wife and everyone else there is safe....

[jammer308]

http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/2058168-Lt-Col-Dave-Grossman-to-cops-The-enemy-is-denial/..............   i think i pulled this off the ruger forum? anyway its very good and this is the direction we all need to be focusing. i agree on the issue of mental illness and that it needs to be looked into deeper as well. but ultimately we need protection in the schools and malls, in addition to preserving our constitution entirely and encouraging others to take advantage of their freedom here in america. ... now with all this banter aside i have a question for ya'll. why is there no talk of the shooter's father??? what is the deal with him and the father of james holmes (shooter in colorado) both being due to testify in the LIBOR scandal. there was another set of murders connected with GE in this as well. is this a government scandal/conspiracy? I've also heard that witness's in both shootings gave conflicting accounts to what we are being told by the media.. that these shooters did not act alone. any thoughts??

[BUGEYE]

  The class bully has its place in teaching a young person to stand up for themselves

Some kids today have no strong father figure to teach self reliance.  but the kid who is being bullied has a right to be able to go to school without fear.  remember, not every kid is as tough as you were
a bully needs to be expelled, a classroom needs to be a learning place, not a battleground.
I would imagine that school bullies grow up to be jerks, so I'm not concerned as much about them.

[Swift One]

The point I was trying to make that I think most got was the fact that kids are faced with challenges in life and learning to deal with them is part of the growing up phase.  I lost my fight with the bully (so I am guessing he was tougher  ), but he learned that not everyone is going to put up with crap. You never had a bully at your school Bugeye?  Sometimes life isn't about holding hands and singing kumbaya(sp).  I think that sometimes certain kids have not been taught the ability to deal with life issues more rationally and they take the extreme route to handle issues.
 
And I totaly agree with your statement about not having a strong father figure.  I do think that part of the problem is in the fact that there are so many single parent homes.  Too much alone time for the child with the single parent working and not enough guidance.  I was fortunate enough to have both my parents in my life and around all the time.  I do see now-a-days though with my friends that are single parents where the kids are different and in some cases a little scary.
 
The group Pearl Jam wrote a song years ago (I cannot remember the name of it now) that talks about a kid that was picked on by everyone constantly and one day, he just showed up in class with a gun and let them have it. The video was kind of creepy. Kind of reminds me about some of the past shooters we have had in this country with what information that was released about them.

[Anna]

My older brothers would just get in a fist fight and get kicked out of school. 

[ironglow]

From DD;
  " In other words, more security at schools.  Sure it may cost more, but I am willing to pay a 1% national sales tax on guns and ammo to pay for this and keep my gun freedoms"
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
  Sorry DD, but I have to disagree.. we should not have to pay a "tax" to keep our constitutional rights. 
          Don't let the liberals get their foot in the door..they will just pile on more and more...and never quit.
   
   See photo below for another example of "Liberal Logic"..  even little kids are smarter than the liberal gun grabbers..

[boomerralph]

Not medically qualified to comment on the veracity of this.  But...Just saying.
A bit long, but eyr opening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhO0Pul_FcE&feature=player_embedded

[45-70.gov]

i grew up the fattest kid  in school
we  moved every few years  so i got to meet a new group of bullies
i can tell you more about bullies than  most


look at my avitar.....i am a little chubbier there than i am now
i beat the odds as an  OBESE child not to become an obese adult
maybe these bullies FORCED me to take  control   of  THEM AND THE FAT


A CHILD CAN DRIVE A PENCIL TO THE BONE IN ANOTHER CHILD.....I KNOW FOR A FACT
so  you can't get rid of the weapons...i have never initiated violence against anther person
except  a thief   or in defense of myself or others...[don't let me see a man hurt a woman]

[Brett]

Not medically qualified to comment on the veracity of this.  But...Just saying.
A bit long, but eyr opening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhO0Pul_FcE&feature=player_embedded

This area definitely needs more research.  But I would be cautious about drawing any quick conclusions.   All of the mass murderers used an automobile to get to the location of their attachs but it would be foolish to conclude vehicles are the cause of such attacks.

[SHOOTALL]

it is foolish to believe guns caused it also.

[Brett]

it is foolish to believe guns caused it also.

Of course it is.   The knee jerk reaction that's taking place is just incredible.  Way too much emotion and no logical thought process at this point.

 Based on the logic I've seen the gun banners display,  Had this mental case killed his mother with a kitchen knife and used her car to run over the 26 people on the playground of the school they would be calling for restrictions on cuttlery and a ban on automobiles.

I believe that is why the NRA was smart to lay low for a few days.

[BUGEYE]

Just listened to husseins speech on the news, he not just going after some guns, he's also after the 2nd amendment.
all guns could be outlawed, and by the time the fight makes it ti the SCOTUS, your guns will already be melted down.

some here will naysay this post but it's an eery paralell to germany.  I wonder how many Jews scoffed.

[scootrd]

A family  member of mine posted on facebook last night 2 posts. (I don't facebook my better half informed me and read me the quotes).

"My child's right to live trumps your right to have a gun".

"Proof guns kill people".

I wanted to drive over and just pound him. But it's nOt worth the price of gasoline I would have spent..
My wife wanted to comment back and I told her  -  wasted breath , don't bother. Just UNFRIEND.

I will probably see him at CHRISTmas, should be an interesting and heated discussion. 

[SHOOTALL]

it is foolish to believe guns caused it also.

Of course it is.   The knee jerk reaction that's taking place is just incredible.  Way too much emotion and no logical thought process at this point.

 Based on the logic I've seen the gun banners display,  Had this mental case killed his mother with a kitchen knife and used her car to run over the 26 people on the playground of the school they would be calling for restrictions on cuttlery and a ban on automobiles.

I believe that is why the NRA was smart to lay low for a few days.

quite true , next they will ban women because they have the ablity to be hookers , oh no that won't happen the liberals condone such .

[45-70.gov]

A family  member of mine posted on facebook last night 2 posts. (I don't facebook my better half informed me and read me the quotes).

"My child's right to live trumps your right to have a gun".

"Proof guns kill people".

I wanted to drive over and just pound him. But it's nOt worth the price of gasoline I would have spent..
My wife wanted to comment back and I told her  -  wasted breath , don't bother. Just UNFRIEND.

I will probably see him at CHRISTmas, should be an interesting and heated discussion.

have  her post this on her facebook page