Author Topic: Spine shot? (Read 2351 times)

petemi · « **on:** December 15, 2012, 08:25:56 AM »

I have made occasional head shots and I like them. Nice easy dressing and butchering. But, I have watched many deer and have seen them suddenly snap their heads around to see or wind in another direction. If that happened at the instant the trigger was squeezed, it could result in a miss or worse, a blown off jaw. I took a 275 yard high shoulder shot with a .45-70 at a nice buck a couple of years ago. I know the rifle and I know the drop. I dropped him in his tracks. It turned out he was only 220 yards and I took out his spine. Now, that was a miscalculation on my part, but it brought up a question. Would a deliberate spine shot be better than a head shot? Aiming at the spine, If you shot high, it would be a miss or at worst a flesh wound. Lower, it would be a high shoulder or a shoulder shot.

Your thoughts please.

Pete

kynardsj · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2012, 10:27:59 AM »

IMHO. Yes a spine shot will put them down but you will be messing up one of the finest parts of the deer, the tenderloins. I have shot deer that were close to me in the head but for a DRT shot even at some distance, go for the neck if you're not going to put one in the boiler room.

mechanic · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2012, 10:31:08 AM »

If you get within three inches of the spine in the neck at any point, the deer will go down. It may have only stunned his nervous system, but more likely killed him. I usually take this shot if offered. With a heart shot, even with a big bore, even though I've never lost one, they will usually run a ways..sometimes quite a ways. They can run two to three minutes with both lungs and heart taken out...always amazed me.

Ben

petemi · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2012, 11:08:12 AM »

The tenderloins are farther aft. A forward spine shot may take out the front, narrow end, of the backstraps.

Pete

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #4 on:** December 15, 2012, 12:39:33 PM »

Quote from: kynardsj on December 15, 2012, 10:27:59 AM

IMHO. Yes a spine shot will put them down but you will be messing up one of the finest parts of the deer, the tenderloins. I have shot deer that were close to me in the head but for a DRT shot even at some distance, go for the neck if you're not going to put one in the boiler room.

The Loin is the Back strap not the tenderloin.
The tender loin is that little sweet meat section on the underside of the spine that you can see after you gut the deer.
You can take them out with your finger. It connects the spine to the pelvis.

BBF · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2012, 12:47:36 PM »

I've never tried a head or neck shot and will pass it up if that is all I'm offered.
A Spine shot for me would be a miscalculation or a jerked trigger.

spruce · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2012, 01:05:37 PM »

I've never taken a head shot on a deer, for the very reason the OP mentioned. Any little "twitch" on the part of the deer or the shooter will likely end up badly.
Neck shots are certainly deadly as long as the shooter is familiar with deer anatomy, but the spine in that area is a small target. I've taken a few that way, but only when I've had plenty of time and a good rest or brace of some sort. Best I can remember I've shot just two with spine shots and they were both "miscalculations" on my part, but both dropped instantly.

The shot I always try for is a thru and thru double lung shot. Sure they'll run a little ways, but a blind man could follow the blood trail. If they're quartered away then I aim for the offside shoulder and if quartered towards me I aim for the near shoulder. A little meat is lost but it's a big target and sure to put them down within a short distance.

BBF · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2012, 02:39:13 PM »

My last deer was shot with the 45-70 using the 405 gr Rem in a handload. A heart shot with full penetration. I was in a meadow and saw the deer fall about 30 yards from the spot I hit it. There was little blood visible until the very end of the run.

kynardsj · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2012, 03:01:12 PM »

Mcwoodduck, I do agree that what we call the inside tenders is the best and most tender part of a deer. The backstraps are just a deer part we call tenderloins too. Might be an Alabama thing. No matter what they're called we all call them mighty fine eating. I always save my inside tenders for when a buddy and I have a cookout together with our families. They'll want hamburgers and hotdogs and such on the grill. He and I will grill the inside tenders and tell the wives and kids those are man food.

pastorp · « **Reply #9 on:** December 16, 2012, 01:22:01 AM »

Ben,

Just curious, but do you know how far a deer can run in 2-3 minuts ? I've never seen a heart shot deer run over 50 yards which would be about 2-3 seconds.

Regards,

mechanic · « **Reply #10 on:** December 16, 2012, 01:34:13 AM »

Quote from: pastorp on December 16, 2012, 01:22:01 AM

Ben,

Just curious, but do you know how far a deer can run in 2-3 minuts ? I've never seen a heart shot deer run over 50 yards which would be about 2-3 seconds.

Regards,

Yep, I've had one run about the distance of a city block, but it probably wasn't a matter of minutes I guess....It's still hard to find them sometimes if you're in the thick stuff. I am always amazed they can move from their tracks at all with a gaping hole in their heart....

My favorite shot has always been the neck shot, if I've got quiet deer. They don't move at all.

Ben

pastorp · « **Reply #11 on:** December 16, 2012, 01:40:14 AM »

Quote from: mechanic on December 15, 2012, 10:31:08 AM

If you get within three inches of the spine in the neck at any point, the deer will go down. It may have only stunned his nervous system, but more likely killed him. I usually take this shot if offered. With a heart shot, even with a big bore, even though I've never lost one, they will usually run a ways..sometimes quite a ways. They can run two to three minutes with both lungs and heart taken out...always amazed me.

Ben

I don't think you understood my question Ben.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #12 on:** December 16, 2012, 02:00:20 AM »

The HI-Shoulder shot WILL impact the spine!!

Its my preffered shot as I simply have a problem with a gun shot animal running...

BUT Most of my shots on deer are well within 100 yards. Should the distance grow, I would move to a larger target, like center lungs.

Like most of you I have shot many deer, some lungs, some heart, some back a bit too far, some in the neck but most hi shoulder. YES you sacrfice a bit of good meat, BUT more often then not, the rest of the deer is DRT when you get to him. I LIKE that more than the pound or so of lost meat.

CW

deernhog · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2012, 01:22:56 AM »

I've seen several deer travel distances of 1/4 mile shot in the heart and double lung, one with a .35 Remington and the other a 7mm Rem mag. They travelled for a while but unknown how long they took. I prefer a broadside double boiler but I have noticed that a higher hit with downward angle from a tree stand shot usually drops them. I was told it is nerve disruption from shock close to the spine.

Savage .250 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2012, 02:06:01 AM »

Being you asked. I`d never make the spine-shot my go to shot. To me there are better shots to be taken for a clean kill . If the spine-shot is off a tad all you have accomplished in the end is having severely wounded an animal, leaving it in major agony. Don`t see how anyone could get any enjoyment from that out come.
Not all can pull off the "spine" shot in the first place. I`ll stick with what is more certain to be a clean kill.

yukondog · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2012, 11:39:09 AM »

A spine shot would not be my first choice, I like the high sholder shot it nails them right where they stand.

BBF · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2012, 06:14:25 PM »

I dislike bloodshot meat therefore no shoulder shots for me.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2012, 08:03:43 PM »

i always shoot heart-lungs with a
rifle or bow. too much meat on the
neck and backstraps to waste.
a shoulder if hit with an "armpit"
heart-lung shot is damaged in an
area of very little meat and ribs
are the worst place to try to get
usable meat anyway, so they are
expendable and that's where i send
my bullet/broadhead.

my exception is if doe hunting in
tight cover. they get a dose of
buckshot to the noggin.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 20, 2012, 05:42:51 AM »

When I've hit spine, it worked really really well... but I'd missed what I was aiming at (usually front shoulder). Lately I've become a fan of base of neck... seems to get some spine, and the fall down RIGHT THERE. And there's some room for error.

Last deer I got - and best - was a heart shot, but barely - few inches low. It worked.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2012, 06:47:37 AM »

Growing up the hi shoulder shot was explained to me as the area of a nerve bundle that when hit results in near immediate incapisitation!

I don't know how true the nerve bundle theory is, but of the hundred or so deer I have shot, the hi shoulder shot puts them on the ground consistently reliably and with authority.

As I said earlier, look at the bones on a deer in the shoulder area. The spine makes a dip at where the the shoulder would be, behind the shoulder blade. The front legs are not attached in a ball and socket as the rear legs are, there are shoulder blades and meat, no real "shoulders" a bullet from a hi velocity round will have enough authority/energy/shock to break the spine, ribs and or shoulder blades and send shards of bone into the lungs and check cavity. One does not need pin point accuracy, I would venture a 2-3"area wil net identicle results. A little lo will still result in leg bone/lungs/heart maybe spine. Back a little will get you better shot on the lungs and the spine. Too far forward still likely get you the spine and if so bone shards radiating out. Too high, well this is a bad shot and will likely allow the game to flee with a bad wound.

A deer shot hi shoulder will be dead as if turning off a light switch. I have seen many suck there legs up to there body dead in mid air.

I have shot more than I like in the heart. Altho never lost one shot there, they ALL ran long and hard. Heck lung shot deer haven't gone as far!

I like shooting major bones but I also like heavy for caliber bullets and large diameters at close ranges.

CW

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2012, 07:34:57 AM »

alot of deer we shoot are moving to start with so a spine shot is not a good shot. A standing deer often ducks down as it springs off , it would seem an easy miss on a spine shot as much so as a head shot . A heart lung shot works and leaves more room for error .
as for how far a deer can run ? over what ground ? up or down hill ? briars or open land ? extent of wound ? entire heart vs only a small part ? etc. ?

Ranger99 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2012, 10:50:47 AM »

i've shot deer with a bow that ran
'till i had to think i might have missed
except for the blood splashed everywhere.
i've also had 'em walk 3 or 4 steps and calmly
lay down and expire. i personally believe it
has a lot to do with if the deer gets that adrenaline
shot as to whether they go bounding off for
several hundred yards or not. dressing afterwards,
some had a big "y" right smack in the heart
from the broadhead. it's hard to imagine some
critter being able to move away with lightning
speed with no way to pump blood. i always
try to move in and out of the hunting area
very quietly and with as much stealth as i
can muster and no victory dance or rebel
yells or the like. i believe if the animal can
stay calmer, they'll not flee as far when hit.
kinda like the big fish that don't fight like
they should until they see the boat hull or
the landing net.

mechanic · « **Reply #22 on:** December 20, 2012, 11:32:27 AM »

The last deer I shot had a perfect centered hole in the heart, and my thumb would fit in the exit...he ran about 50 yards, fell on his side and began kicking, and kicked himself over the bank into the pond and went out of sight. He was too far for a spine shot.

Ben

charles p · « **Reply #23 on:** December 20, 2012, 12:04:21 PM »

For many years, I used to aim high on the shoulder anf forward toward the neck. The effect was a spine shot. Good killing shot but ruined the shoulders and some backstrap. Not my shot of preference now.

DANNY-L · « **Reply #24 on:** December 23, 2012, 02:44:31 AM »

I've read many times if ya take out both lungs that the deer has 1min at the most to get to where it's going to die. This has always been my preferred shot. When younger I tried a head shot and took off the jaw,lucky for me I got a second shot. Never a head shot for me no matter what,it's not worth the risk and I aint desperate.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #25 on:** December 25, 2012, 11:20:27 AM »

I like a spine shot. If I shoot too high the deer is unharmed If I shoot too low, it's in the boiler room and it's meat on the table anyway!

Heart shots are good! But those who think they run too far because of adrenalin....take out that heart there ain't no adrenalin goin anywhere in that deer...it ain't going far on that. DOuble lung shot has always given me the longest trackin' jobs!

Best deer I ever ate? Was killed by the outside mirror on a Ford F150, smack in the head!

just-an-illusion · « **Reply #26 on:** December 31, 2012, 05:20:31 PM »

My go to shot on deer 100 yds or less is in the neck, bout 6" ahead of the shoulder on a BROAD SIDE shot. One of my favorites on close deer is facing me with the head up, center of the neck. DRT or nothing.

Any shot in the neck with a suitable cartrige will put a deer down NOW.

Shots longer than 100 yds broadside, I go for middle/rear shoulder.

A little high, DRT
.
A little low, HEART.

Point of aim, still a dead deer.

I am not a fan of center lung shot with a rifle. Bow yes; gun no, to many LONG tracking jobs.

My 8pt this year was 185 yds quarting towards me, IN at the point of the near shoulder, OUT at the rear of the far shoulder. 2/3 up the chest cavity, Instant dirt nap, Kicked 3 times and done.

Ymmv;
Illuision

Spanky · « **Reply #27 on:** January 09, 2013, 09:11:13 AM »

I always take a heart/lung shot. I never ever ever take a head shot... the deer deserve more respect than that. The chance of missing the brain and hitting the face is too great and the animal suffers horribly before they expire.
Alot of you won't agree with me and that's alright. If you have the skills to make a perfect head shot every time you're lucky... most people (myself included) don't.

As far as having a long tracking job with a heart/lung shot... I have never had that problem. I've made that shot with everything from a 22 Hornet to a 12 gauge. About half of them have dropped right there... the rest have been recovered within 100 yds. or so.

I do realize that 100 yds. would be a long way to track in very thick cover. I'm fortunate in that I hunt mostly hardwood stands and the tracking is fairly easy. That's not the case everywhere and I recognize the fact that a hundred yard tracking job through the swamps or thick underbrush would be very difficult and might end up with a lost deer.

Basically it boils down to this... Each situation is different and each hunter is different. There is no right way and no wrong way... it's putting meat on the table plain and simple.

Spanky

BBF · « **Reply #28 on:** January 10, 2013, 06:38:51 AM »

Spanky:

I agree with you on your point that there are several right ways but there are also wrong ways.