Author Topic: Negative Handi rifle feedback  (Read 4611 times)

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Offline teleman

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Negative Handi rifle feedback
« on: December 15, 2012, 08:30:35 AM »
Just what is it about all the poo poo's from the firearm community regarding Handi quality, accuracy and reliability?. I think my brain is being poisoned by being a member of too many forums. There is no in between it seems, people either love them to bits or think they are useless junk.
I have read the Handi 101 in this forum and it makes perfect sense to me. Being somewhat old school, I know that unless you look after your tools they will let you down someday. I drive an old Dodge PU and know every sound that truck is supposed to make. If it needs some finesse, it gets it. Common sense tells me that it's a poor workman who blames his tools. I am planning to purchase a 45-70 soon and now I get second thoughts about it. My gut feel tells me not to listen to the naysayers.
Stay calm, Be brave, Wait for the signs.

Offline petemi

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 08:58:08 AM »
The Handi .45-70 is one of the most shootenist out of the box Handis ever.  Perhaps THE most.  Don't listen to the drivel folks spout from second hand sources.  The members here know their Handis.  Any shortcomings are out in the open for all to see, and the .45-70 has few if any.  Over the years, time and time again, Handis have outshot rifles costing many times their price.  If you ever get one that won't shoot to start off with, believe me, it can be made to shoot well, and the help is here.

Pete
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2012, 09:24:18 AM »
Snobs
Ive had high priced custom rifles, some big name classics too and had troubles with all, some right away and others given enough time and rounds fired. About the most reliable of anything have been mil-surps; they were made for far worse environments and treatment than typical sporting arms, and some of those will still have issues. For example, there are bolt action snobs who will call the Mosin Nagant junk, even though it has earned its stripes.
Most of my high priced stuff is gone now and you can see below that some H&Rs are still found here. They have been giving me pretty good bang for the buck. In fact, if I 'amortize down' my H&Rs I could shoot 'em till they drop and just walk away. They arent the purtiest, or the bestest......nor the worstest , just another mechanical device that I can work on, not send out to some 'specialist'.
Are some lemons?, yep......so are some Ruger No.1's. What Ive found through more than a few years is that when somebody pays big bucks for 'whatever' they are less inclined to admit what they have is a turkey and make excuses for it or just dont bring it up much.
Hey, most of us throw the price of an H&R away in short order on lots of foolish indulgences. A friend who used to smoke 2-3 packs of cigs a week quit, and he was able to buy a bunch of toys for what he otherwise 'burned' up (not makin' a soapbox here, just an example). Some spend pretty big money on 'StarCoffee'. Point is, we all make value judgements on what is meaningful to us, so dont let nay-sayers pick your poison for you, get what trips your trigger, you are the only one who needs to satisfy you.
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Offline rdlange

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback (link added)
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2012, 09:54:22 AM »
I've had 6 45-70s.  Some old, some new.  Sold extractors, kept ejectors, used frames for other barrels.  They all shot well.  Same as 30-30.  Try to find an used one somewhere cheaper... local guntrader, pawn shop?  Hunting season, so be patient. 
 
Oh, my Handi's ARE my BEST rifles, and I care for them accordingly.  JMHO...
 
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2012, 10:34:46 AM »
teleman:  Let me tell you how I became a Handi Nut.  I had many guns, I purchased the best I could afford and get.  I had Parker Haile, Remingtons, Winchesters, Rugers, Thompson Centers, Marlins, and Springfields.  Every year when we went to Moose camp someone forgot their shells, their gun, lost their shells, or gun, or broke their gun.  We always saw Grouse on the way in, and wanted to take some for dinner at camp.  So we needed a Shotgun and an extra rifle.  So I would put the 7MM Mag barrel to my TCR on the dash of the track rig, and carry the TCR with the 12ga barrel on it in the door mount.  One year a fellow got a little rough with my TCR after he broke his gun.  I decided I needed something different to take as a spare gun. 

After we got back I was in Wal Mart and saw a Handi-Rifle in the rack.  It was a .270, and I am not a fan or the .270, so I asked if they could get other calibers.  The Handi looked like a gun that would take a beating and still function.  Plus if it got scratched or dinged so what.  The woman behind the counter showed me the book they have.  I saw 30-06 was the biggest they made, and the 30-06 is the minimum for hunting Alaska.  So I ordered one.  Three days later they called and said the gun was in.  I went and picked it up.  When I got it home, the paperwork for ordering a second barrel was in the box.  I sent the reciever back for a 20ga barrel, and a youth stock.   

I took the gun out to sight it in and was not impressed, but it was a cheap gun and it worked well enough.  I started carrying it when I went out for the day snowmachining, or exploring on the 4-wheeler.  Every time we go out we would end up shooting, and the more I shot this little gun the better I was able to hit things with it.  One day Chuck was in a betting mood, he bet no one could hit a small seed pod hanging from a stem at 75 Yards.  Chuck took his shot and missed, John took his shot and missed, Mikey took his shot and missed, I just threw the gun up off hand and shot the pod exploded.  Everyone was impressed with the little cheap gun.  Later that evening Chuck and I ran across two wolves stalking a Caribou Cow and Calf.  They saw us about the same time we saw them.  I jumped off my snow machine and shot the closest one.  Chuck shot and missed the other one.  Chuck shot seven times with his Remington 660 in .222 and never hit that wolf as it ran through brush till it was behind solid cover.  Later the Wolf came out high up on the hill.  The Wolf stopped, streatched, then sat down looking at us.  I told chuck the wolf was making fun of him.  Chuck grabbed my 30-06 saying, "The ARMY taught me to kill a man at 1000 yards with an 06, I'm going to shoot that wolf".  Chuck sat down and used the seat of my snow machine as a rest and took his shot.  The Wolf went over backwards and out of sight.  Dead Wolf.

After that I started carrying the Handi more and more.  I put an O-ring under the forearm, and that is all I did to the gun to improve accuracy.  But I noticed every time I changed barrels the POI would change and I would have to resight the scope.  I quite changing barrels.  Soon I was shooting Caribou, Moose and Wolves, with the Handi.    It became my go to gun.  I realized it shot as good if not better than some of the other higher priced guns I owned.  While it may not be the main gun I carry on a hunting trip, it is always along as backup.  I've taken it to Tennessee for Whitetail.  I've taken it to Texas for Hogs.  I'm taking the 30-06 to Tennessee this year, and will leave it there.  That way I don't have to carry one back and forth on the plane.  I now have an Ultra Comp in 30-06, so I will not miss it.

As I said before the only thing I have done has been put an O-ring under the forearm, other wise it is out of the box.  No poliching the chamber, barrel breaking period, nothing but shoot it.

I've noticed the people that put them down the most have never owned one. 
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2012, 10:35:57 AM »
I've been blessed to have my hands on very good rifles and very expensive ones over the years.  The two, good and expensive do not necessarily go hand in hand.  The Ruger 1 I bought many years ago, I never got to shoot worth a dang. 
 
The worst handi I've had would shoot 2" groups at 100 yards, and most of them much better.
 
There are a lot of folks who don't spend the time to learn how to shoot, and blame it on the rifle.  If they miss a shot at a deer, it's the rifles fault, because after all, they shot 10 rounds in practice year before last.
 
Most folks shoot a 22 better than anything else.  The reason is it's so cheap to shoot they shoot it a lot.....
 
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Offline evan1395

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 11:47:57 AM »
This is my first and only rifle I have ever owned. I threw a 3-9x50MM scope on it. Set zero myself at 100 yards (Didn't know what I was doing, first scope zero as well). And I took it down to the range a week after, set a gallon jug of water out about 300 yards, nailed it 2nd shot.. Here are the results. First ever rifle shooter for less than a month and the Handi does this. These are EXCELLENT little units, but hey thats just my $0.02.

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Offline thejanitor

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 02:48:44 PM »
I know several people who HATE my Toyota just because it isn't a Ford. If you were thinking about trying a handi the cool thing is you found this site first, Like Pete said these are the people to help IF your handi has any issue but the 45-70 Handi is one of the least issue guns you will find while reading here..... It is sweet! And with trail boss loads you can play with it year round then beef up the load for hunting IF you need to. We enjoy our handis very much.  Good luck I hope you get one and enjoy it like we do.   thejanitor

Offline evan1395

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2012, 02:59:37 PM »
I love mine !
 
 
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2012, 04:22:36 PM »
If you listen to yourself regardless of what the decision is about, you will usually be right. When you start acting contrary to your own inner voice you are likely to make a mistake. ear
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Offline teleman

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2012, 07:05:06 AM »
Now that's positive feedback. And from the Horses mouth, no offense intended of course.  Love that "Snobs" Gcrank1, I see them all the time. I have to smile when I pull out my 1945 Lee Enfield sporter and the guy with the Lapua .338 glances at it then tells me he hit the 500yd gong 4 times in a row. You know I bought that .303 for $150 in August and me and my buddy stuck my laser cat toy through the bore. moved the front sight .020" and that gun took 3 deer and a moose this yr. I think that is kind of 4 in a row is it not?. It ain't fancy but it gets the job done. I too believe you don't have to spend a bunch of money to get something that works for you.
Thanks all for your sage advice
Stay calm, Be brave, Wait for the signs.

Offline gendoc

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2012, 09:23:26 AM »
i like to make those "snobs" sweat witha couple my 200$ handi's...
its all in howya preciate what works for u.  i ain't go'n on bout my
other kindsa shooters, so i jus say.... they can shoot what they want,
and if they wanna play, put tha pink slip in yur mouth, not excuses.................. ;D
sea-ya.....
in tha meen time, i'm wait'n for tha  7th trumpet ta sound !!!

gotta big green tractor ana diesel truck, my idea of heaven's chasin whitetail bucks and asa country boy, you know i can survive............

hey boy, hit this mason jar one time...
burn ya lil'bit did'nt it. ya ever been snipe hunt'n ?  come on...

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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 12:35:17 PM »
Some Handis shoot good right out of the box, some do not. 45-70 and 30-30 have good reputations along with 223 and 30-06, but they all can shoot well. Take Sourdough for instance, we all know he can shoot, but to start with his 30-06 did not do so well, it did after he shot it a while. He could have given up on it and said it was cheap, junk because it could not hit anything. Some people do not know how to shoot and blame the gun. Since the Handi is cheap, it some people's first gun, if they do not now how to shoot, they blame the equipment. They buy some thing else and since it has a good rep for accuracy (you name it) they stick it out until they learn to shoot or find a load that works. I think any gun can shoot decently as long as there is not a defect in some way such as a bad crown, a defect in the rifling or a chamber cut bad for instance. I think that there are some that blame the Handi for their bad shooting, there are some that do not know how or care to tweak a Handi rifle if it is not behaving. The guy that knows he can shoot and can tweak a rifle if he is so inclined will find the Handi shoots pretty well. Those that do not have a lot of shooting experience or know how to "adjust" a rifle will call them junk.

Good Shooting and Good Luck
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Offline Rustyinfla

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 01:16:58 PM »


   Often it's hard to tell someone they can't shoot. But I really get the feeling most guns shoot better than the people holding them.
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Offline bucco921

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 01:45:49 PM »
Rusty, I couldnt agree with you more. I'm from PA. We are one of the few states to average close to a million resident hunters a year. I watch them come in flocks every november to "check" the zero on their guns. They tote everything from levers and expensive bolt guns to smooth bore shotguns. Maybe 1 out of every 20 I see is capable of shooting a 3 inch group on their best day. I am not the greatest shot but I shoot year round and have managed to squeeze out some sub 1 inch groups, that being said my handis will shoot better than im capable of.

Offline teleman

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 06:05:48 PM »
You guys got that right. Here's an observation that  twigged from bucco's comment. This year was my first for hunting. I saw each of the other 2 guys in the group I hunted with hit a deer on the leg when the heat was on and I kind of wondered "how in the F*** can you do that from 75 yds"?. Needless to say those were gone,gone deer. Funny thing is, those were the only other people I saw shoot this season. That's 2/3rds man! I think some people just can't get a sight picture or they are shaking too much. I know one of those guns put 2 right between the eyes 1" apart on a bull moose this year with a different man on the trigger so it ain't the weapon.
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2012, 03:23:48 AM »
One also has to accept that a Handi is a budget rifle and a crap shoot. It appears that many of the Handis shoot well or at least acceptable out of the box. Others need some mild tweaking, some major tweaking. Some will never shoot even though everything appears good on the gun (my .243). I have never seen another forum on any other rifle that has so many threads concerning making the gun shoot well as here on the Handi forum. Please don't get me wrong if you enjoy them and it turns your crank, great! I have a Savage .243 that shoots consistent 3/4 inch groups and a High Wall .219 DW that is consistent between 1/2-3/4 inch groups. My Handi averages about 4-6 inches and that is with several different factory and hand loads, scopes and mounts. I just didn't win this lottery this time.
GuzziJohn

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2012, 04:08:26 AM »
Send it back?
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
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45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline elkslayer4x5

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2012, 05:04:03 AM »
One also has to accept that a Handi is a budget rifle and a crap shoot. It appears that many of the Handis shoot well or at least acceptable out of the box. Others need some mild tweaking, some major tweaking. Some will never shoot even though everything appears good on the gun (my .243). I have never seen another forum on any other rifle that has so many threads concerning making the gun shoot well as here on the Handi forum. Please don't get me wrong if you enjoy them and it turns your crank, great! I have a Savage .243 that shoots consistent 3/4 inch groups and a High Wall .219 DW that is consistent between 1/2-3/4 inch groups. My Handi averages about 4-6 inches and that is with several different factory and hand loads, scopes and mounts. I just didn't win this lottery this time.
GuzziJohn

Of all the Handi barrels, it seems that I read of a lot more .243 barrels being harder to to get to shoot little groups.
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Offline petemi

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2012, 05:48:20 AM »
I recently sent a frame up to H&R for a .243 Superlight barrel.  The work was done at Brian Johnson's bench. (Brian56).  I got it back in two weeks; cleaned it, checked the scope mount, etc and put an "O" ring on the forearm stud.  After sighting it in, I shot 5 groups of three with handloads at 300 yards off the bench.  All the groups were within two and a half inches and one was covered with a quarter.  Do all my Handis shoot that well?  No, but I don't usually either. ::)   My Superlight 7mm-08 is a close runner up and all the rest give me minute of coyote at 200 yards including the Maxi.  The remaining pistol calibers group well at 100.  If they didn't shoot, I wouldn't have them.  Ammo's too expensive and hunting opportunities are too rare.  A new .223 Superlight is scheduled to be delivered today.  We'll see how she does.

Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
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Offline Wagguy80

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2012, 06:05:27 AM »
Well I bought my first handi for use in primitive season earlier this year in .444 marlin it's a solid shooter.  Fit and finish is not great, and I keep trying to find an excuse to tinker with it.  However bottom line it's a shooter.


Is it going to replace my Mossberg .30-06 during rifle season?  No.  But as a hog gun, primitive season, go anytime truck gun.  I'm extremely happy with it.

Offline teleman

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2012, 09:36:38 AM »
Well, Put some money down on the 45-70. Has a Maple stock and Talo type sights I think. $319CDN.  Can't wait for the new year to give it try.
Thanks again all
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 10:01:11 AM »
Is that the 18 3/4" barrel with open sights model?
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline teleman

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2012, 10:36:04 AM »
Actually 22" open sights. Adjustable rear for elev. and windage. Nice having the rear sight further away from the  eye. Front sight seems to just fall into the notch naturally. Looks good for snap shots. Like this one without the second barrel
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2012, 12:04:38 PM »
Well, Put some money down on the 45-70. Has a Maple stock and Talo type sights I think. $319CDN.  Can't wait for the new year to give it try.
Thanks again all
Can't go wrong with the 45-70.  IMHO, you got one of the best caliber choices.  Buying the Handi gets you into Handiholics, getting a 45-70 allows you to learn the super secret squirrel  hand shake.  ;D    You'll be really happy with it.  I have a couple of them, and every one is a shooter.
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When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline Singlebarrel

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2012, 05:33:44 AM »
GuzziJohn is right.  I think they are a crap shoot.   And Crank, I sent mine back 4 times and got the crap back every time.  Also, had a assessory barrel I had to get rid of because it would not shoot.
It is not the rifle.  The rifle is a good, well proven design.  My older H & Rs are really good shooters and I love them dearly.  The rifle deserves better than what H & R is doing to it.  What happened to quality of manufacture and quality control?
 

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2012, 06:25:24 AM »
Quote from Singlebarrel:
"What happened to quality of manufacture and quality control?"


My guess would be the bean counters.
GuzziJohn

Offline SB2

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2012, 04:28:35 PM »
have the trigger worked and they are great!!

Offline Flynmoose

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2012, 04:58:50 PM »
My Handi in 223 took a few rounds down the tube to get to 1 1/2 MOA. I had the barrel shortened to 16 1/2" with a target crown. It shrank my groups to 3/4 MOA on a good day and shot previously marginal ammo very well. It is my ugly duckling that shoots like a it is a beautiful swan!
FM
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Offline Jimbo47

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Re: Negative Handi rifle feedback
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2012, 04:57:53 AM »
This forum is the only place you will find the love that the Handi Rifle deserves.
 
Folks look down their noses at the Handi as the perennial "starter rifle" for their kids to learn how to shoot with, right alongside the Rossi's, and many folks can't tell them apart even if they lay them side by side, and get them mixed up when talking about them.
Oh they shoot good, and then when their kid gets used to it, they upgrade their rifle to a bolt gun and one with a nicer finish, and the little rifle that could gets put into the back of the safe until maybe a sibling follows behind, or as a truck gun, collecting rust and dust.    Oh they get pulled out now and then and bragged about, because they outshoot more expensive guns, but somehow get put right back in the corner after the fun session is over.
They get mistreated and should they break, it's oh well, it was a cheap rifle anyway, and there it sits, a junk gun.
How do I know this, you say?....Because that is how I used to view Handi's back before I figured it out, and it's the way it probably will always be with Handi's.
I now try to spread the word, but just go on any gun forum and the majority will look at the Handi in exactly the same way, and most have never even given the rifle a single chance.
My advise is don't listen to what others say when they call them junk, without trying one out for yourself.   You will most likely find out they were wrong!
My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.