30 Herrett question [more]

[rdlange]

All I've read is about the over long throats on the 30 Herrett factory barrels.  So I see them way cheaper than other calibers like 30-30. 
 
 Figure using 130 gr or lighter bullets.  How do you compensate for the long throats to get decent accuracy.
 
Could ream for another caliber.  Not the quesiton though...
 
Thanks.

[rdlange]

OK.  Want a 30 Herrett.  Caliber seems right for my use.  Longer than 10".  Seen some for sale less than other calibers, but read about long throat problem.
 
Already have 357 and I don't use it much because too short.  Not 30-30 because too much for a pistol for me.  So how do I get one with a good throat length for lighter bullets, 100 to 130gr?  Not $300 please.
 
Thanks.

[Keith L]

I have no experience with a factory 30 Herrett barrel, but I have several other factory barrels that internet folks have said would never shoot.  They all have with a little work on the reloading bench.  I guess I need to try for myself now. 

[Ladobe]

Probably about all you can do with a long throat when you don't want to rechamber to a longer cartridge... seat the bullet short and if needed give it a light crimp.   Bullet design will be a factor though even doing that, with a long ogive design maybe the best choice.   Barrel twist may also be a factor depending on bullet weights.   Factory 30H barrels were made with at least both 1:14 and 1:10 twist, and with 6 and 8 groove.
 
BTW, if any of those 30 Herrett barrels you are running across are 14" 6 groove 1:14 twist they are usually worth more than any other 30 factory barrel.   First ingredient in a 30 Bower Alaskan, one that has been an ought to, want to, must do for IHMSA shooters for a long time.   I've had two of them.   Not something you'd want if a 30-30 is too much for you though, and they can be pushed beyond what the Contender can safely handle.  The 307Win brass Don developed the cartridge with is OK, the 356Win a better choice.   The 30BA were pretty much the top end of the 30's for a Contender in many ways.
 
 

[rdlange]

Thanks folks.  Ladobe, does that mean the 14" 6 groove shoot better?  With what parameter? Lead; heavy bullets; after rechamber?
 
Thanks.

[Ladobe]

IMO the 6 groove barrels surpass the 8 groove in multiple ways, and not just the fact that when you improve any cartridge the gains surpass the parent catridge (as the 30 Bower Alaskan does over the 30 Herrett).   I split hairs when it came to precision accuracy, a need for long range, so maybe also more important to me than many other folks.
 
The 6 groove just plain shoot very well and are consistent with most bullet weights.   Probably a product of the wider grooves more than twist because they displace less of a bullet than the 8 groove does, and they shoot at lower pressures making higher gain doable safely.  My main desire for them as a dedicated long range shooter from well before TC even came along was because the 6 groove can handle a heavier charge than the 8 groove's can while staying at/very near the same pressures as them, extending their effective range and accuracy safely.  They can shoot a much tighter group at long range, better groups even than they can at short ranges are not uncommon.  Still plenty tight at short ranges for the IHMSA folks though who normally shoot fairly heavy bullets for a 1:14.   Takes a while for the bullets to stabilize IOW, but long range groups can be better than at short range.   I don't want to deal with the ACE's, so I'll just say I have seen some exceptional groups at 500 yards with 30 Bower Alaskans and leave it at that.   They also have the advantage of being earlier production, at a time when TC's quality control was better.   TC has/does let some barrels out that are less than stellar IOW, and that was way more evident to me anyway with the wide 8 groove barrels when they came along 25-30 years ago, and with the narrow 8 groove after.   Chamber to bore alignment plagued them off and on, with barrels sent out that would not, could not ever shoot well short of trying to rechamber them to a larger case to get them realigned (if not too far off).   Alignment runout is a critical factor for consistant accuracy.  And they've had their problems with using worn out/dull reamers, something you didn't see as much in the earlier days.   Long story short for what my main uses were I would have always opted for a 6 groove rather than any of the 8 groove barrels they made/make.  In your case though, at 200 or less, an 8 groove 1:10 should be fine even with lighter bullets.   But a 6 1:14 would probably shoot them a little better.  IE, 30 cal 130's are usually considered a 14 twist bullet and 10 twist is more for the 150's up normally.   Splitting hairs.   

[rdlange]

Thanks Ladobe.  I know the one I just bought is said to be 14",  1:14 twist.  Don't know how many grooves.  I'll just hope 6.  But the deal seemed good.  I can always ream to 30-30 AI as I did one of my Toppers and put up with more recoil.  Looking forward to my first true 'Contender' caliber.  After alot of research I realized I wasn't after a hand cannon, just a light hunter pistol, and the 30 Herrett seems that.
 
Be well all...

[atm]

"All I've read is about the over long throats on the 30 Herrett factory barrels."
 
The three that I've owned weren't.

[Escalante]

I have used the 30 Herrett for many years. I shoot cast mainly. I have had no problems that were gun related.
Mostly problems with the nut behind the butt.
Rich.

[Lonegun1894]

I have had my .30 Herrett for about a year or so, and I never thought to check it for ROT or 6 vs 8 grooves.  I just checked it and it is 1:14 and a 6 groove.  The only thing I was aware of to worry about is the possible long throat issue, and mine doesn't have that.  It is the 10" version, and shoots great.  One ragged hole at 25, and usually about 2" at 100yds, but that is mostly me as the gun has given me the occassional .75" 100yd group.  And this is all with 150gr cast bullets.  I have played with cast ranging from 90gr to 180grs, but the 150gr has been giving me the most consistent performance and shoots better in this gun than I do, so I might as well stick with it.  I can't speak for jacketed performance, but if yours shoots as well as mine, I'm betting you'll be a happy man.  I haven't hunted meat with mine yet, just paper, but I'm betting it will work great once I get a chance to hunt with it too. 

[Ladobe]

...  I can always ream to 30-30 AI as I did one of my Toppers and put up with more recoil.  Looking forward to my first true 'Contender' caliber.  After alot of research I realized I wasn't after a hand cannon, just a light hunter pistol, and the 30 Herrett seems that.
 
Be well all...

I really doubt you will have to rechamber the barrel, it should get it done for you just fine as is and your desire to stay with the parent cartridge.   Dies would be a problem now days, but no barrel of mine would have ever been rechambered to 30-30AI when I could do it to 30 Bower Alaskan.   Anyway, for most shooters reasonable bullet jump is not as much of a problem as it is for the long range shooters.   So even if the lead is a little long in that barrel for the bullets you want to shoot you ought to be fine.   I ran the other way in reloading for all my firearms, not just the TC's... I always lightly jammed the bullet for every cartridge I could safely with 99% of my shooting being long to extremely long range.   The key being jammed only in worked up loads that did not push pressures too high for the firearm or the components.   Most often I used the #2 sweet spot in all my reloads that were dedicated to a particular firearm/barrel (unless the #1 was under max), and that built in an extra margin of safety.  IMO max is a very subjective term and not created equal even between like firearms with all else being equal.    Why I never shot ammo anyone else loaded, why none were allowed to shoot mine, and why I pulled any ammo still on hand when I sold any firearm.
 
Keep us posted how the new barrel works out for you.   My money is on fine to exceptional with a great cartridge that in general is pretty forgiving.
 
 

[rdlange]

1 - Got the barrel, early single lug that latches up fine on my early frame.  A 14", 6 groove, LONG throat.  Reloading for next week end.  170 gr 30-30 bullets don't even touch rifling.  Trying 130 grs because I have more and that's what I want to shoot.

2 - Fired brass neck is too loose, and bullet just slides down inside.  Again indicates too big a neck.  Any ideas on this?

3 - Saw a post about using a reamer to lengthen the neck so as to shorten the throat and trim brass longer to compensate.  Gotta make brass anyway... Has anyone done this and how?  By hand because I have no lathe. 

Thanks.

[sr sawyer]

The bullet should slide freely into fired case of anything fired in a properly cut chamber.  There is a lot of info available on loading the .30 Herrett but I advise that you stick to the reliable sources. 
 
I have been messing with this round for over 30 years and have not experienced the long throat you are referring to.  The 125-135 grain bullets work best for hunting in the .30 Herrett IMO.   

[shot1]

As has been said a bullet must be able to fall through a fired case neck. If it could not fall through it would not release the bullet properly and your pressures would be through the roof. People get too hung up on loading a bullet close to the lands. You will find that there are different nodes of distances away from the lands that will shoot accurately. For years everybody said that the Berger VLD would only shoot it's best jammed into the lands but it has been proven that they will shoot just as good jumping a mile to the lands. I have found that many hunting bullets actually shoot best jumping 20 to 40 thousands off the lands. Get you some Nosler 125 gr ballistic tips and start out loading it one bullet diameter deep in the case. Play with your powder charges in a ladder test to find your most accurate load. If when you find the most accurate load combo and you think you need more accuracy you can then play with seating depth of the bullet to see if it helps. Get you a bunch of shooting experience with your Contender off a solid bench rest before you go thinking that it will not shoot accurately. I have found that many of those "so call" not accurate weapons are due to operator era. Good luck and good shooting.

[ted]

I have a 14" 30 herrett. I have a long throat but I shoot considerably off lands and get decent accuracy (2"or less at 100 yards). I shoot 130 hornady ssp bullets (have about 120 left!). Worked just fine on a small buck this year. I have had 30 herrett fro 6 years and find that getting case sized/headspaced correctly is essential to accuracy.

[rdlange]

All I could find was Speer #2005 130gr HPs, 4198 and 4227 and Rem Mag primers in my stash, so that's what I'll be trying.  Must be out of the BR primers.  Figure to drop the load a little because of the Mag primers and work up for accuracy as usual.  Finally got a forend, so we're moving right along.  Maybe this weekend.
Thanks all...