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Offline 30063030223357

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bisley 45 colt
« on: December 17, 2012, 03:57:59 PM »
Just purchased a ruger blackhawk bisley in 45 colt. Really nice looking revolver!!! . Have read a lot about having to ream the cylinder throats to shoot lead bullets. Have shot some different handloads and accuracy is ok but not great. Don't have a good way to measure but a plastic set of calipers, but this is what i've got. Slugged the barrel and measured .4480. Hornady xtp measures .4500 and missouri swc measures .4520. Neither the xtp or the swc will drop through the cyl. throat or even push through by hand. The slug will drop through the throat. Velocities are somewhat erratic with a variation of around 100 fps. Is this enough info for any opinions, or should i just rent a reamer and ream the throats.   Thanks for any opinions.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2012, 01:59:23 PM »
If you arent a machinist, or at least a very skilled mechanic, dont try to ream your own, for a very nominal fee the www.cylindersmith.com will do it right.
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Offline 30063030223357

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2012, 03:36:17 PM »
slugged the cyl. throat tonight and measures .4500. So the the throat is .002 larger than the bore, the same as the xtp bullet, but .002 smaller than the swc. So i'm shaving .002 off the swc before it reaches the barrel. Any thoughts. Yes i'm very mechanical. Do all of my own work and wouldn't have any trouble reaming the cyl. throat.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2012, 04:24:33 PM »
No need to ream them as long as they are that size compared to the barrel groove dia. Sounds like work on the loads, that amount of variation in the velo isnt good. Different bullet alloy can help too; lots of things to try regarding cast bullet performance.
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Offline Hairy Chest

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 05:15:58 AM »
Quote from: 30063030223357 on December 18, 2012, 03:36:17 PM
slugged the cyl. throat tonight and measures .4500. So the the throat is .002 larger than the bore, the same as the xtp bullet, but .002 smaller than the swc. So i'm shaving .002 off the swc before it reaches the barrel. Any thoughts. Yes i'm very mechanical. Do all of my own work and wouldn't have any trouble reaming the cyl. throat.

Hornday XTP's are .452.  You are off by .002 on your calculations.  It seems to me then your bore is .450 and throats are .452.  How can a Hornady bullet be .450?  If the bullets are .452 they won't push through a .452 throat.  Ream the throats .453 to make them all equal. 
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 05:45:54 AM »
Thats the trouble with plastic dial calipers............a number of them Ive looked at are +/- .002". Pin & Plug Gauges are so very nice to have too, but I understand why most dont go to the expense to own them.
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Offline 30063030223357

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 11:44:42 AM »
I understand the plastic calipers are not that accurate. I was just showing the comparison from barrel to throat to bullet.
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Offline 30063030223357

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 12:41:19 PM »
O.K if the xtp are exactly .452 then my throat is .452 or a little larger. No use to ream because all the reamers i've seen are .4525. This makes the missouri swc at .454. If nothing else i could get a sizer and size the swc to .452. Will work on some more loads first.
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Offline BruceP

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 01:02:59 PM »
When you slugged the barrel did you notice the slug get tight (harder to push) as you got to the frame juncture. A lot of the time they will be smaller at the threads due to being torqued into the frame. I don't remember the measurements but on mine a pin guage that will enter the muzzle will come out the frame end, but from what I understand that is not common. On my friends his had a pretty severe constriction and we had to drop down several thousanths before the gage came out. If that's the case with yours it really works against cast bullets as they get squeezed down at that point and then enter the larger portion of the barrel. This lets gases blow by the bullet and can cause leading.

Bruce
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Offline hillbill

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 01:09:56 PM »
clean the lead out of the barrel if there is any and start over.if your cast bullets are proper size. and your cylinder throats are too tight you will see good accuracy for a few rounds then it will deteriorate.tight cylinder throats will cause leading starting at the forceing cone and heading forward in the barrel. use a strong light and look for leading.if yu see it then you need to get or rent a piloted reamer for the cylinder. or send it to cylindersmith or whoever can do it.PILOTED reamer. my 45 blackhawk has a leading prob that after much research i will be rectifying this winter.i plan to rent the reamer and let my gs do the job as he knows a little bit more about guns than me but i think i cud prob do it myself also. we will prob chuck it in his mill and center up the cylinder and then turn it by hand.it dont take much from what ive seen.my gun is about 2 years old. it seems ruger reams the cylinder for jacketed bullets which aint as fussy as cast lead.
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Offline Hairy Chest

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 01:42:56 PM »
Quote from: 30063030223357 on December 19, 2012, 12:41:19 PM
O.K if the xtp are exactly .452 then my throat is .452 or a little larger. No use to ream because all the reamers i've seen are .4525. This makes the missouri swc at .454. If nothing else i could get a sizer and size the swc to .452. Will work on some more loads first.

If the XTP's don't push thru, then reaming them .4525 will allow them to push through.  If you cast bullets and size .452, they will grow.  If you ever get a mold that has a long nose which gives you more powder capacity, that driving band with .452 sized bullets will get hung up with a .452 throat.  Rounds won't chamber.  The .4525 throats would be perfect.  But .452 for the bullets you are using is OK.  On the bore, what did you measure?  The muzzle or constriction?  If that is from the constriction, then get a fire lap kit. Ream them to .4525 and fire lap it. 
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Offline doghawg

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 06:36:38 AM »
Sorry I didn't see this thread sooner. I have a .45 Colt Bisley BH that I'd given up on. Groups at 25 yards from a rest were in 3" to 4" range and no amount of load tinkering helped. I read about throat reaming so had a local smith ream to .4525" and it was a changed gun. It's not for sale now....
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Offline 30063030223357

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 12:38:40 PM »
Update; After some more measuring and slugging each cylinder, as best as i can measure without a micrometer all cylinders seem to measure at .4520. From what i have read the newer rugers are more consistent in there cylinders, and mine was manufactured in 2012. I have found a very good shooting load with 9.2 gr. of W231 and the missouri 255 gr. SWC with an 18 BHN. This gives me an average 1033 fps with an extreme spread of 30 and average deviation of 10.  This is the most consistent and accurate load i have found so far. It is a nice target load and i'm sure it will put down a pa. whitetail! It shoots a nice cluster at 25 yds., now i have to practice my offhand shooting. I did purchace a lee .452 sizer to run my bullets through, then lube with lee liquid alox. Hope to eliminate the little leading i was getting. Have 50 rounds loaded up and ready to do some shooting. Have some 250 gr. xtp's loaded up a little faster ,but i really wanted to shoot lead with this gun.  Thanks for everyones advice!!
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: bisley 45 colt
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2013, 01:34:55 PM »
I must have been lucky!!  I have had one since they where first offered... I fit and installed a free spin pawl and a over sized cylinder pin. Then a set of Wolff springs and Black Pearle grips...

I load a stiff loading of WW296 and a 300 Speer SP gets me under 4"at 100 and cloverleafs at 25...




CW
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