Author Topic: What is the "Formal " definition of an assualt weapon? (Read 1221 times)

scootrd · « **on:** December 18, 2012, 05:51:57 AM »

"Assault weapon is a Broad and very vague term . In the eyes of the general public is it just a military style over function.?
What would cause one firearm to be classified as an assault weapon vs. another ?

For instance -
Connecticut
Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semi-automatic, or burst fire,

Virginia,
any weapon with magazine capacity greater than 20 rounds counts.

California
any semiautomatic, centerfire rifle with ability to accept detachable mags and then goes on to list a ridiculous litany of physical features Thumbhole stocks , folding stocks , pistol grips etc...

New Jersey -
15 round magazine limit.

New York -
large capacity ammunition feeding device.

I think before talks about bans on anything begin the govt should settle on formal definition of what an "assault weapon" is and perhaps more importantly isn't. The Term Assault seems to be bantered around quite willy nilly and defined and interpreted to suit needs and whims of legislators . All seems quite a bit murky to me.

- Semper Fi

BUGEYE · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2012, 06:21:21 AM »

Only Connecticut has the real definition.

democrats however, believe that citizens should not be allowed ANY firearm.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2012, 06:51:19 AM »

A Brown Bess!

dwalk · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2012, 07:26:16 AM »

Quote from: scootrd on December 18, 2012, 05:51:57 AM

"Assault weapon is a Broad and very vague term . In the eyes of the general public is it just a military style over function.?
What would cause one firearm to be classified as an assault weapon vs. another ?

For instance -
Connecticut
Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semi-automatic, or burst fire,

Virginia,
any weapon with magazine capacity greater than 20 rounds counts.

California
any semiautomatic, centerfire rifle with ability to accept detachable mags and then goes on to list a ridiculous litany of physical features Thumbhole stocks , folding stocks , pistol grips etc...

New Jersey -
15 round magazine limit.

New York -
large capacity ammunition feeding device.

I think before talks about bans on anything begin the govt should settle on formal definition of what an "assault weapon" is and perhaps more importantly isn't. The Term Assault seems to be bantered around quite willy nilly and defined and interpreted to suit needs and whims of legislators . All seems quite a bit murky to me.

- Semper Fi

^^^^is a major part of the problem.

IMO...semi-auto should NOT be included in any description as semi-auto has been incorporated in sporting rifles/handguns since the late 1800's; FULL auto and select three round burst features stand to be military.

limiting magazine capacity has long been incorporated in semi-auto HUNTING arms for big game and shotguns for birds... California and Arizona have a 2 in the mag and 1 in the chamber round limit for big game with semi-auto, as an example.

i use 5 round mags in my MSR by choice...

legislators will soon determine our "Needs" vs. our "Wants" whether we like it or not...we, then, have to go from there.

i just read that "some republicans are ready to discuss gun control" and that includes "The 2A"...standby...

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2012, 08:05:39 AM »

....and once again we see that some have no understanding that the Second Amendment is NOT ABOUT HUNTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jammer308 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2012, 08:10:37 AM »

an assault weapon is anythin from a rock to a nuclear bomb after it has been used for an "assault" :/

lakota · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2012, 08:53:23 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on December 18, 2012, 06:51:19 AM

A Brown Bess!

If the gun grabbers get their way a Brown Bess will be classified as an assualt rifle. After all it does have an evil bayonet lug and it can fire what like maybe 8-10 rounds per minute? Seriously why would anyone need that type of rapid fire capability for hunting?

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2012, 08:58:00 AM »

some would define one as med. power full auto or burst conntrol rifle with a mag. that has a high round count. If you had been a Rebel back in the day a 44 Henery rifle may have been one you called ASLT. RIFLE. Then if you had a spear and was confronted with a guy with bow and arrow you might call his an ASLT. WEAPON.
The definition one chooses depends on ones perspective at the time .
And that is the trouble with the idea . Most have little knowlege what one is and accept others perspectives with out challenge. A vey poor way to decide laws.

Bob Riebe · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2012, 09:19:56 AM »

An STG 44 and nothing else.

A woman in Texas recently turned an STG 44 in for a gun buy back.

Fortunately the police officers recognized what it was and refused to take it but they will hold it while she sells it.

It is worth up to 20,000 dollars.

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2012, 09:48:39 AM »

Conneticut does have the most accurate definition, but I think Obama's definition would also include my Remington 742 and 7400. However, he has absolutely no problem with his security detail, which he will have till the day he dies.

Personally, I think being a liberal should automatically disqualify someone from owning a firearm, as well. But, that's just my opinion.

ST762

Gary G · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2012, 12:25:21 PM »

It is people that assault other people. Weapons just remain in the last place someone put them.

Anna · « **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2012, 01:31:21 PM »

Where its definition came from was the difference between it and a main battle rifle .
A main battle rifle like an M14 or a L1A1 is as its designation says it is. And they are mostly
emplacement weapons with limited mag capacitys.
It's best described as this , a MBR is a reach out and touch the enemy weapon best used to control
any given fire zone. Like a cleared perimeter in defense of anyone trying to cross it.

An assault rifle would be your weapon of choise if it were you crossing that zone. Lighter,faster
cyclic rate, and can carry more rounds per mag. Thus the name assault , based on what was learned
with the M1 carbine the name of carbine still is used even to denote an M4. The STG 44 was also
basicly a vast improvement over the carbines of its day. So is the AK 47, which is a knock off
of the STG no matter what the Russians say. The Russians also copied the 30 Mauser with their
7.62 x 25. But don't go putting one of these rounds in your 30 broom handle or Luger.
They are much more powerful even if they will chamber.

Shoulder stocks on SA pistols like the broom handle pre date the carbines.The carbines pre date the
assault rifles of today. A MBR is usually a larger caliber with a limited mag capacity.
Just saying.

boomerralph · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2012, 01:46:53 PM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on December 18, 2012, 06:51:19 AM

A Brown Bess!

Yes, in its day, it was the most powerful sholder fired weapon in existance. And legal to be owned by a civilian!

boomerralph · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2012, 01:51:33 PM »

Anna said;
Shoulder stocks on SA pistols like the broom handle pre date the carbines.The carbines pre date the
assault rifles of today. A MBR is usually a larger caliber with a limited mag capacity.
Just saying.

I own a set of cased flintlock pistols ca 1795 with detachable shoulder stocks. I guess that they will become assault weapons.

mechanic · « **Reply #14 on:** December 18, 2012, 02:17:29 PM »

Thats not the only definition they have trouble with. How about the exploding ammo line? I've heard that one twice this week. Sure would like to have a handful of that for coyotes. I have a neighbor that several years ago told me no one needed an "assault rifle". I took him to the range and let him shoot a AR, and a 12 ga. pump with buckshot, and tell me which one was more deadly.

Just tonight I heard a commentator say they should limit all guns to 3 shots, he couldn't see why anyone would need more. Of course that would outlaw all gun except single shots and double barrels. In a defenseless school, the double barrel would kill just as many.

Asinine.

Ben

Anna · « **Reply #15 on:** December 18, 2012, 03:47:23 PM »

Carbines have been around a long time, as the shorter more agile counterparts of thier larger
cousins. But it wasnt until Mauser produced the broom handle a semi auto pistol with a detachable
shoulder stock did they take on a whole new meaning. There were a lot of guns made on this concept.
But as far as a true mass production gun with reliability the C96 broom handle took the spotlight.
And for a long time also, then America produced the short stroke piston SA rifle invented by a jailed
convict. And eventually this lead to the M1 carbine, which was no match for the STG 44.

Metal stampings like a modern H&K ,and mass production of a true assault rifle was without a doubt
the wave of the future. A Spanish company built what was called a CETME, the precursor to the
H&K G3. But it was still a main battle rifle. Cartridge size made the modern day assault rifle what it
is today. As theaters of war changed to assault tactics so did the weapon of choise for a modern army.

For now anyway, that could change if two super powers ever butt heads again. By the way I learned
all this by watching the history channel !

jackruff · « **Reply #16 on:** December 18, 2012, 04:17:43 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on December 18, 2012, 08:58:00 AM

some would define one as med. power full auto or burst conntrol rifle with a mag. that has a high round count. If you had been a Rebel back in the day a 44 Henery rifle may have been one you called ASLT. RIFLE. Then if you had a spear and was confronted with a guy with bow and arrow you might call his an ASLT. WEAPON.
The definition one chooses depends on ones perspective at the time .
And that is the trouble with the idea . Most have little knowlege what one is and accept others perspectives with out challenge. A vey poor way to decide laws.

Yes, my Rebel great-grandfather, a member of Co. C of the 1st Mississippi Infantry, for sure thought the Yankees opposite him at Franklin, Tennessee, who had .44 Henrys were firing "assault" rifles.

cudatruck · « **Reply #17 on:** December 18, 2012, 04:18:03 PM »

ANYTHING use by a person to ASSAULT a person or persons becomes the weapon used in assault! try hitting a guy at a bar with a pool stick. You will be charged with assault with a deadly weapon! We the people allowed our government to go down this path with the first limits on 2nd amendment rights in trade to help curb mob violence by restricting fully automatic weapons, explosives, and other destructive devices. Mistake number one and we have been fighting this ever since. There is only one way to stop a lunatic from killing innocent people. it requires a decent person to use a weapon. Fact of life for time immortal.

ironglow · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2012, 05:22:59 AM »

I find the hypocrisy of the anti-gun left to be intregueing;

According to them, when someone is killed by a gun...that's "gun violence"..

But when somebody is killed with a baseball bat... it's not "baseball bat violence"

When somebody is killed by a car, it's not "car violence"

When somebody is killed by a falling tree, it's not "tree violence".

When somebody is killed with a knife, it's not "knife violence"..

When somebody is killed with a golf club, it's not "golf club violence".

.......Kinda makes one wonder just how their brain works..if in fact it does..

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #19 on:** December 19, 2012, 05:34:02 AM »

I fuly understand all the reasons that make a true assault rifle. But like the Kleenex people you just as well get over the fact that your name brand has been co-opted by the populace.

An assault rifle can be described as any gun with a detachable magazine, that has been styled to look like a military weapon. A Pontiac Fiero looked like a sportscar and was marketed as such it sure as heck was not one, but guess what it is considered a sports car by anybody who looks at it.

Clips vs. mags, same same, you know good and well what a person means when he tells you he has three clips for his G-19. As you know full well what the news reporter is refering to when he says the gunman had an assault rifle. Argueing over the semantics makes you sound like a dick or worse yet a lawyer.

A better way to deal with this is to man up and embrace your Assault Weapon. Trying to hide behind a Ruger 10-22 is a cop out. Sure it has a long mag, sure it shoots a semi hot round, sure it looks menacing thats why I bought it. Oh and by the way it is of less lethality than my 30-30 deer rifle, less than my goose gun too, the stupid thing is expensive compared to those as well. By God I am an American and I want one, I can afford one, and I have the God given right, Constitutionally protected to possess one and I have chosen to do so. Change our Constitution or STFU.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 19, 2012, 02:06:37 PM »

To me, it's a select-fire weapon. Anything else is political naming.

scootrd · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2012, 03:37:02 AM »

Was Listening to talk radio yesterday , A group of LEO and mayors from across US were speaking out saying they also are tired of having LEO's outgunned on streets, and something needs to be done to remove assault "type" weapons out of the hands of people. Buy Backs have already started in some areas.

Congressional leaders were stating no amendment is absolute , just like you cannot yell fire under 1st in crowded theater. 2nd is not absolute.

Looks like changes are definitely coming. Concerns me because Legislators cannot even reach a formal understanding of what defines an "Assualt" weapon and yet legislation is already being crafted.I don't think general public nor most legislators understand differences between select-fire weapons and just military style looking weapons. Sigh!!!

coyotejoe · « **Reply #22 on:** December 20, 2012, 04:01:47 AM »

There is a fairly concise definition of "assault rifle" and that is why the lefties prefer the term "assault weapon" expressly because it has no legal definition. When they say we have to get rid of those evil "assault weapons" most people visualize an AK-47 and they have no great objection to seeing those banned. But after the bill has passed into law, only then do we learn that many popular sporting firearms and collector grade military weapons fall under some provision of the law. It's kinda like that idiot Nancy Pelosi said about the Obama Health Care law, "you have to pass it to find out what's in it".

tcoggins · « **Reply #23 on:** December 20, 2012, 02:59:54 PM »

'Assault' is a verb, not an adjective. Shouldn't be used to define a weapon.

Just my $.02

Tim

mechanic · « **Reply #24 on:** December 20, 2012, 03:08:52 PM »

Yep, a 10-22 with a sporter stock and a 10-22 with "battle dress" is the same gun, yet somehow it becomes more dangerous.

If they were to ever see a 12 ga. buckshot demo. it would scare the shorts off them. They never dreamed g-grandpa had that kind of firepower and never shot up a school or theater..

Ben